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MADsquirrel

Mines are Bad for Gameplay

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On 7/24/2018 at 6:57 AM, pinko said:

Am I right in thinking mines will incapacitate more than outright kill?

Eventually, I think it will depend on the vehicle. Something with more mine protection (say, an MRAP) would be disabled, but you can imagine a techie might not sustain that blast as well, say. Not sure if it will be in the initial release, but the goal is to be able to disable tracks and tires too. As you can imagine, a tank might fare a little better.

 

One example that's been described in the case of the MRAP would be it hits a mine, begins to burn, which gives the crew enough time to flee, but the vehicle is hosed. (Just an example -- may perform differently in practice.)

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Brilliant! Would love to see MRAPs repairable after a mine though, to encourage their use as a forward escort for logis. Maybe if engineers can put out a fire if they get to it fast enough? Techies and trucks just going boom makes sense of course :D 

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i love the idea of an MRAP or similar taking multiple hits which take out wheels, engine, driver but the gun is still functioning and it becomes like a little base which the squad uses to hold an area.

 

and mobile vehicles with damaged weapons being used as taxis.

 

and way more unarmed vehicles in general

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, CptDirty said:

I get that SQUAD is a game and all but do you find this video of U.S. service members potentially killed in this blast to be appropriate for a forum setting? 

 

Do you have a source stating if the service members made it alive or did we just watch them being killed? 

For your information thy are all Afgan Army the only US thing is that MRAP and if anyone died i dont have that information.

As i wrote above it all depends of the level of its protection the position of the ied a lot of things. 

Edited by Bahrein

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In case someone is missing a post.
A video got removed that did not comply with the rules of the forum.


Stick to the topic: Squad - mines - gameplay.


thx

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Ok round 2:

Quote

Mines are useful especially up against conventional forces and their arsenal of armored vehicles especially with MBT coming. ... 

 On some map layers mines are literally the only chance of winning for the insurgents/militia. ...

First of all it balances out the Insurgent faction nicely against all the modern vehicles and weapons of the conventional forces. ...

 

How can something static counter/balance out something that is highly mobile?

The only way countering vehicles with mines is placing them just outside of the main on vulnerable points (VPs). If you don't you can't counter vehicles reliably, because every sane person will avoid any VP or road like it's lava. By your logic this basically means either you counter vehicles before they get to the actuall combat or you lose.

BTW the thing killing most fighting vehicles in the games I play is the HAT, so I would say the HAT is the main balancer.

 

My point here: Mines don't counter vehicles actually on the battlefield only right outside their main on VPs. => It mainly punishes Logistics and nobody want to do logistics anyway. No need to make it even worse.

 

Quote

Personally I find it to be one of the funnest classes in the game and I've had many matches where I've personally destroyed a large amount of vehicles resulting in a win for my team. Very satisfying and immersive as well.

Ok I can accept that I am the only person who only gets "Heh. Nice. Someone found my mine." feeling from it. But you brought up a good point. If we ignore that it does feel "Very immersive" because destroying large amounts of vehicles with IEDs/mines doesn't happen in reality => hence impossible to be immersive.

But Having that much impact in Game, maybe killing 50 points worth of tickets alone, just because you placed a handful of mines infront of the enemy main or on a VP? While this is also true to a degree with HAT kits, the HAT kit is only 1 per team so it balances out especially with the change to permanent ammo.

 

My point here: Mines are to influential in Game for to little effort.

 

Quote

It forces a layer of situational awareness, and in some cases teamwork ...

literally just look at the ground when crossing bridges and tight roads ...

I planted 5 mines in this screen can you spot all of them?

0EC06D136612339F89B564535B1612BAB6C4E967

 

Solution

Spoiler

2166E7FE927D96DF8A629B589F89EFF4039A0FFA

As you can see you can hide mines completely under a rock and we all know that many maps have misc rocks and bushes on the roads meaning even if you pay 100% attention on the road you can still hit them => no counterplay.

It is not feasible to sweep EVERY VP most of the time you won't be able to sweep at all. Also time is incredible essential in squad. If you need 20 min from the main to actuall combat because you have to check every possible minelocation or try to drive around that you will have your entire team yelling at you for not helping them, becaus Squad is sadly an extremely fast paced game atm meaning that you simply cannot take your time.

 

To sum this up. My point still stands. Mines are bad for Gameplay punish logi drivers, require 0 teamwork and has to much influence on a game if done right.

 

This is everything for now. If you disagree pls take a few minutes to elaborate why you disagree whenever possible with game facts and not "feelings" or "but I like them". Gameplay doesn't mean that only YOU are having fun but that everyone has a chance to have fun.

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1 hour ago, MADsquirrel said:

How can something static counter/balance out something that is highly mobile?

Choke points AKA bridges or highly used roads on a given map.

1 hour ago, MADsquirrel said:

My point here: Mines don't counter vehicles actually on the battlefield only right outside their main on VPs

So? as the irregular force you have to actually make it to the opposite team's main and plant those mines without being spotted. I don't see your point. And on that note, the mines DO counter vehicles outside of main, as I said before on bridges and highly used roads on certain maps. Gorodok is relatively flat map where all vehicles are able to drive around either on or off road, the same can't be said for Fool's Road for example. So moral of this story is know your map and find out the proper choke points then send your scouts to plant mines in those locations. Just to reiterate: it doesn't only have to be outside the enemy's main. 

1 hour ago, MADsquirrel said:

But Having that much impact in Game, maybe killing 50 points worth of tickets alone, just because you placed a handful of mines infront of the enemy main or on a VP?

Again, stop saying mines are used ONLY within close proximity of enemy's main because it isn't. They can, but mine placement isn't ONLY effective when placed outside of enemy's main because if you know the map and the enemy's most likely course of action for a given situation, you should be able to deny them vehicle access. 

1 hour ago, MADsquirrel said:

To sum this up. My point still stands. Mines are bad for Gameplay punish logi drivers, require 0 teamwork and has to much influence on a game if done right.

Absolutely false. Just yesterday I was driving the logi with a squad mate when I spotted a mine on the road that wasn't dugged down fully so it was sticking out like a sore thumb. I stopped, asked my squad mate to dig and clear it, and we were on our way to place a FOB which eventually secured our team's win. If that mine was fully dug down in the floor I probably would've drove over it. 

 

Word of advice: At round start, pick the SL kit, pick a logi with 2000 construction points and 2 other squad mates and head out as soon as countdown timer reaches 0 to place 4 FOBS/HABS (500 each) to at least ensure your team has spawning capabilities into the city beyond those choke points where a mine is likely to take out your vehicles. Look, devs are not going to remove AT mines so instead of beating a dead horse on the forums you could find ways AROUND the problem instead of tackling it head on :o (See what I did there?)

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Hopefully in addition to the mines & IED's eventually the Insugents can also get those homemade propane tank mortars and tripod rockets.

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If you are tackling a horse you are stupid.... :)

 

I hope that at some stage the maps are not completely empty at the start of a round but have some unpredictable spawn locations for teams and squads. Racing across empty maps every single round is getting very dull and is totally unrealistic. I've posted this idea many times...

 

 

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Quote

To sum this up. My point still stands. Mines are bad for Gameplay punish logi drivers, require 0 teamwork and has to much influence on a game if done right.

Absolutely false. Just yesterday I was driving the logi with a squad mate when I spotted a mine on the road that wasn't dugged down fully so it was sticking out like a sore thumb. I stopped, asked my squad mate to dig and clear it, and we were on our way to place a FOB which eventually secured our team's win. If that mine was fully dug down in the floor I probably would've drove over it. 

 

Word of advice: At round start, pick the SL kit, pick a logi with 2000 construction points and 2 other squad mates and head out as soon as countdown timer reaches 0 to place 4 FOBS/HABS (500 each) to at least ensure your team has spawning capabilities into the city beyond those choke points where a mine is likely to take out your vehicles. Look, devs are not going to remove AT mines so instead of beating a dead horse on the forums you could find ways AROUND the problem instead of tackling it head on :o (See what I did there?)

 

 

There seems to be a missunderstanding, otherwise I really don't understand your post.

 

You just PROVED my point with your example.

Imagine the scout that placed the mine actually used his shovel for 15 sec and buried the mine. As you said you wouldn't have spotted it. 

You blow up => punishing the logi driver.

He was obvioulsy alone and most likely didn't even know that you can dig mines, nobody with more brain cells then fingers would

leave it undug and if he had a SL with him the SL would have told him to dig it => requires  0  teamwork

If we now assume you blew up, you can't build that FOB anymore, your team might even lose because of that single mine => to much influence with no effort

 

BTW I am curious where the mine was placed. Was it on the actual battlefield? Or was it on the most Obvious route leading out of main?

 

Your second point doesn't make sense in the current meta because of FOB hunting. Every FOB would need to be guarded otherwise it will be spotted sooner or later and your team loses valuable tickets. Trust me I tried bulding backup FOBs and never worked out because FOB hunting is very popular.

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2 minutes ago, MADsquirrel said:

BTW I am curious where the mine was placed. Was it on the actual battlefield? Or was it on the most Obvious route leading out of main?

2fdsum.jpg

I was SL as U.S. and our team had taken all the points on this invasion layer except for the last one. The path in yellow is the one I took. The red star is where the mine was placed and the scout (SKS) was nearby on that hill shooting at us when we got out to dig. If they had a HAT/LAT we would be toast. Me and my medic were able to neutralize both the scout and the mine and we proceeded to place the FOB and win the match. Next time you're in game, open Jensen, change map to Kohat and get into the admin cam to see the path I took. 

 

If your argument about AT mines being outside main is the strongest one you got, then focus your feedback on map design rather than the gadget itself. If the map and layer are done in such way that they funnel one team's vehicles through a very specific path then it's not the fault of the AT mine. Isn't that why Al Basrah has like 10 crossings across the river that separates the map horizontally? Secure a bridge and keep it secured....there's your teamwork! Or you rather just cross it once and not defend it because you're too hungry for kills? ;) 

 

20 minutes ago, MADsquirrel said:

Trust me I tried bulding backup FOBs and never worked out because FOB hunting is very popular.

Here's a few examples to prove that it DOES work:

Spoiler

^ Backup & forward fobs never got found which saved our team's butts.

 

^ Crossing a bridge on Basrah that was already secured (by my squad). Playing it safe worked out. 

 

^ Sometimes, driving over a mine is just funny.

 

Lastly, the AT mines were given to the irregular factions precisely to deal with the overwhelming power the conventional team has in terms of armored vehicles not just logistical trucks. Irregular factions are known to use these in real life a lot which coincide with the vision of 'keeping it real' as much as OWI can while juggling all aspects in one big balancing act. Unless the developers come out and state their intention with AT mines, I don't think we'll see them leave the game any time soon. So what are you going to do? not play the game because you happened to run over a mine a couple of times? keep asking for the removal of AT mines from the game to make YOU happy despite what everyone is saying on these forums? 

 

**** it man, just find a way AROUND the problem. Work with the tools you have. It's another challenge and consideration to keep in mind when playing as conventional forces. 

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I rarely see mines placed just outside of main, since on most servers, it's not allowed. I do however, see mines often placed inside of what the enemy might consider friendly territory, since you want them at choke points where the vehicle drivers are complacent and not looking for them. Which often isn't the easiest task for the scout. Like CptDirty said, they're more effective on some maps than others. It also doesn't hurt to drop a few on caps since the enemy often comes barreling in either in an attack or when they've capped it to pick up troops. 

 

Mines are an effective equalizer in a minor way. 

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Posted (edited)

Mines are never fully invisible(unless it's under a rock, which isn't that common on roads anyway, in which case pull out shovel and click the rocks to find out) so proper vehicle usage would prevent mines from working.


If they're one-manning a vehicle and/or everyone in vehicle is too much pussy to get out to check the road/bridge for mines, or in most retarded case of vehicle driver says no to passenger's offer to check for mines...that's just bad vehicle usage.

I would wait to see the effect of next patch's ammunition change affects minefield placement first.

Generally there is zero mine off-road so maybe wait for devs to fix vehicle physics(so it doesn't flip from a tiny bump on the road and can run over a tiny log properly).

If anything needs to change, it's that scout should pick between placing mine OR ied, not both.

IED + mine is just stupid when used properly.

Edited by EcchiRevenge

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