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Friesen

Omg Suppression punch yess!! Finally !!

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Posted (edited)

Just wanted to post an appreciation how I'm glad the voices have been heard and finally it's going to be added. I have stopped playing Squad because I found it one of the most super precise sniping fest I've ever played where laying suppressive fire does zero impact. Really got bored where everything is about sniping each other and very little tactical based gunplay. But this just might bring me back!! So glad the voices have been heard. Please do not cut down on the strength of it, keep it strong as it's good when the suppression is strong, it puts more emphasis of the whole squad's firepower and it's more meaningful to lay a covering fire for the squad as well as makes firefights longer lasting and more interesting.

 

Thanks so much devs.

Edited by Friesen

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pleased to see it but tbh I already get a lot of jitter and sway on the rifle ... or maybe im drunk most of the time...

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yeah its the latter :)

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This recap was amazing, so many good things, but the part about the new suppression system was the best.

I'm not a huge fan of the sway, but on an optimistic note, the combination of sway and blacking out the corners of the screen might have a massive tunnel-vision effect. The limited vision purely limits your periphery, but the sway might actually narrow the players attention down to his aim. Which is kind of ironic considering that apparently in real life, soldiers have allegedly a steadier aim.

Also, notice in the video how the suppression has to build up for the flinch effect to kick in.

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Posted (edited)

I love it, any snipers/marksmen will be now firing from unexposed positions and try to stay hidden as they should be. Right now I can go head on towards the enemy and shoot with an optic anyone I come across as long as no enemy also doesn't have an optic to counter me. No enemy fire in my direction is going to affect me. Which is why I've stopped playing Squad as I got tired of such meaningless gunplay. But now I can't wait to get back to Squad and hopefully the gunplay will be a lot more tactical with this suppression involving a lot more covering fire rather than twitch-aiming and being about who pick each other off first.

Edited by Friesen

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Will multiple sources increase suppression. ?

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I wonder how the "flinch" will work with a deployed bipod 

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You act like every shot fired at you is from a 'sniper' or everyone playing it is a 'sniper'.

Suppression looks shit and the effect of it ridiculous, 'aimpunch' or flinch even more so.

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I would be interested to hear if those who are overreacting about "aim punch" (when did that even become a saying?) and supression have ever played anything like RO:DH of any of the Red Orchestra series?

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Posted (edited)

ive never been shot at but, do the bullets really jerk you around?

Edited by Thegreenzzz

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Well it seems the devs finally gave in to the constant whining on the forums.

 

Let's just hope for the best.

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2 hours ago, Chew_Kok_Long said:

Lol. I like the idea but hope its not too much. Snipers and ARs (or anyone really) should get affected on long range absolutely yes but close range fighting should not feel affected whatsoever. Red Orchestra is a nice example on how this should NOT be implemented since it is way too dominant there.

 

No ridiculous jerking around please, just throwing off ones aim on medium/long range so you dont get those ezpz headshots. Also like the idea of increasing effect with more rounds coming at you, nontheless no drunk jerking for the love of god.

 

It should feel NATURAL. Best is if players dont even realize that theres a punch to suppression, its those tiny little things that change so much and give character. No need for Red Orchestra type shooting mechanics, we already have red orchestra-style just-spawn-at-Squadleader-all-day-mechanic.

red orchestra or hell let loose

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Thegreenzzz said:

ive never been shot at but, do the bullets really jerk you around?

Have you never have had someone throw something at your head/face without expecting it and your whole/upper body flinched uncontrollably? I definitely have. 

 

Humans do funny stuff when they get surprised/scared

 

"Oh but soldiers are trained"... are they trained in bullets hitting near them? :P (maybe, I think the Russian spec ops guys are according to youtube videos)

Edited by Psyrus

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11 hours ago, Vegetal said:

Well it seems the devs finally gave in to the constant whining on the forums.

 

Let's just hope for the best.

Certainly. The high pitched whining killed the fun uncertainty and unpredictability of the horrifying "Rush Meta" of v9 which then turned AAS into a dumbed down linear drag race of v10 which was then tweaked again in v11 and then evolved into the current "meat grinder"...

 

The current vignette "suppression" is just fine the way it is and needs zero changes.

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Thegreenzzz said:

ive never been shot at but, do the bullets really jerk you around?

No, it's just a way video games try to simulate fear of death, using unrealistic means to get realistic results. Games can't simulate fear of death well, due to video games being... well games lol. All they can do is use mechanics to try get the desired result.

In reality, getting shot at unexpectedly will result in you flinching/ducking, natural reaction to something happening out of nowhere. Even when behind cover and knowingly being shot at, when the snaps start turning to zips, or rounds kick up mud/rock next to you, you'll react with a flinch or duck, depending on your position and how close it was.

Only time I can think of your weapon being affected by sway while being shot at is, you've just run across open ground to get to cover - causing heavy breathing , adrenaline is pumping and you're a little startled. Which is something you grow used to over time, compared to the first few times you get shot at.
 

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16 hours ago, Melbo said:

I would be interested to hear if those who are overreacting about "aim punch" (when did that even become a saying?) and supression have ever played anything like RO:DH of any of the Red Orchestra series?

for me the Darkest Hour mod for Red Orchestra had the best suppression effect i ever felt !

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8 minutes ago, selecto said:

for me the Darkest Hour mod for Red Orchestra had the best suppression effect i ever felt !

Agreed, the suppression in Darkest Hour is still the best for me so far. Cant wait to test it out in V12 of Squad :)

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If a heavy vehicle or emplacement fires at you, you tend to keep your head down because you know that they will take it off... the issue for me with small arms fire is that fear is not there... I can unload HMG onto a wall or over the heads of a target and he moves slightly can stand up with no effect whatsover to his targeting and snipe or just stand there shooting back..   now you could argue that im a shit shot and if the guy is standing there its my own fault and Im not going to argue.. barn door shovel comes to mind many times...  and perhaps this helps those that are not one shot kings... 

 

however I will argue that the reason he is standing up is because its a game and he has no fear of dying nor impact on his ability to shoot back, i.e he can shoot back with the same accuracy as if he had the element of surprise or was on the firing range.   Now he has that difficulty getting focus/targeting my HMG covering fire is actually worth while rather than just giving away my position and those of the squad. 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Melbo said:

I would be interested to hear if those who are overreacting about "aim punch" (when did that even become a saying?) and supression have ever played anything like RO:DH of any of the Red Orchestra series?

 

I'm a long time RO player, ever since it's first beta release which must have been about 15 years ago. I never played DH much, but I've a lot of experience with RO2 which had a suppression effect.

 

I get the idea behind suppression and the rationale for implementing it, and I know what it's trying to achieve, so I'm not particularly opposed to it. But without going into too much detail here (I've already posted about this subject in detail before), in RO2, I felt the effect was a little exaggerated, and at times, contrived, in terms of the "aim punch" effect (if that's what were calling it). I can see how the game physically and forcibly upsetting your aim is effective, because it's hard to make that happen naturally through just the use of visual and audio effects, so I'm not saying it's outright a bad idea.

 

However, in RO2, there were times when it became very frustrating, because even though you weren't in any particular danger, the game would enact the suppression "aim punch". For instance, if I was stood next to a friendly machine gunner who was firing, I would be suppressed. It seems to me that shouldn't happen - I know the machine gunner is friendly and is firing downrange, why should I be affected by suppression "aim punch"? I would have preferred if the game could differentiate between incoming fire and simply being stood next to a weapon which is being fired. As it stands, it basically felt like I couldn't aim at all if anyone within about 50 metres was firing a gun. That felt a little silly to me. I think ideally, the aim punch should only be enacted when bullets are passing very close to you to avoid that feeling that you basically become completely combat ineffective just because there's a firefight going on nearby. I think that it worked much better in Rising Storm 2 - that still has suppression and your aim is affected by incoming fire, but it feels much more localised and natural. 

 

Additionally, I would even suggest a system whereby the amount of "aim punch" received is actually lessened as the volume of fire increases. For example - if a machine gun opens up on your position, your aim is thrown off, but if he keeps firing at you and not hitting you, your aim is affected less and less. Think of it as your character overcoming their fear - it would mean that popping out into a hail of incoming fire to snapshot the offending MGer would be impossible - but if you're willing to risk it, you can steel yourself enough to return accurate fire. It would also stop the criticism of suppression effects being a "reward for missing" which is how some people have described it, because the MG would only be able to rely on their suppression effectiveness to a certain extent - if the other player is calculating the risk and exposing themselves for long enough to steady their aim and shoot back, then really, you don't have an excuse not to ensure drop them first with overwhelming fire.

 

So in summary - I'm a little apprehensive of how suppression will work in Squad (specifically "aim punch"), just because I don't want it to feel too contrived or exaggerated. But at the same time, I'm excited, because I recognise that it's needed in order to make machine gunners and the concept of covering fire, actually effective. I certainly don't hope that would be considered an overreaction :)

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Posted (edited)
On 7/6/2018 at 1:38 AM, Dubs said:

No, it's just a way video games try to simulate fear of death, using unrealistic means to get realistic results. Games can't simulate fear of death well, due to video games being... well games lol. All they can do is use mechanics to try get the desired result.

In reality, getting shot at unexpectedly will result in you flinching/ducking, natural reaction to something happening out of nowhere. Even when behind cover and knowingly being shot at, when the snaps start turning to zips, or rounds kick up mud/rock next to you, you'll react with a flinch or duck, depending on your position and how close it was.

Only time I can think of your weapon being affected by sway while being shot at is, you've just run across open ground to get to cover - causing heavy breathing , adrenaline is pumping and you're a little startled. Which is something you grow used to over time, compared to the first few times you get shot at.
 

personally i think insurgency did it right that game is scary it gets the adrenaline going

Edited by Thegreenzzz
Im bad at reading apperantly

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10 hours ago, DaiaBu said:

However, in RO2, there were times when it became very frustrating, because even though you weren't in any particular danger, the game would enact the suppression "aim punch". For instance, if I was stood next to a friendly machine gunner who was firing, I would be suppressed.

1

I agree with you on that, it felt like the radius was too large, enemy fire would trigger the suppression effect even if wasn't even a danger to you. You are currently suppressed to a small degree by FF in Squad if you are very close to the shooter, so I'd expect that we'll see FF suppression as well moving forward, as much as I hope not. 

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16 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Certainly. The high pitched whining killed the fun uncertainty and unpredictability of the horrifying "Rush Meta" of v9 which then turned AAS into a dumbed down linear drag race of v10 which was then tweaked again in v11 and then evolved into the current "meat grinder"...

 

The current vignette "suppression" is just fine the way it is and needs zero changes.

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

Actually, current suppression mechanics are kinda helpful, it allows you to know if the shots you are hearing are directed to your person.

 

But anyway, with experience in this game I usually can tell when it's a competent player pinning me to a corner or when it's just a noob spraying and yelling "suppressive fire". Sometimes I take my chances when it's the latter, not with the first.

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Finally it's coming. It is the mechanics that I have been waiting for months and months. The flow of play will drastically change. It is hoped that finally the total supremacy and ease of use of the optics will end.
However, I also agree suppression must be not exaggerated ... but the Devs will have time to balance it.

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I am pleased it is coming, for Squad to be, well Squad we need a decent suppression effect.

It will encourage the different loadouts to use their weapons correctly and further enhance team play in the game.

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Posted (edited)

When has a good MG player ever had trouble when set up and aware of a good optic player? With more damage, fire rate and now bipod accuracy, useful suppression is already a fact in the game. I suppress people all the time if they're trying to get a bead on a friendly, but sorry not sorry I usually wait and snipe them in the head when they full peak instead. Being suppressed should be a player's choice; whether to peek against inaccurate fire or stay down because the shots are close and the grouping precise. If you can't lay down actually threatening fire you shouldn't be able to suppress a player. Please don't lower the skill ceiling by catering to bad shooters.

 

Some suppression could be fine but I would hope the bullets have to be quite close to trigger it. From the video I don't like the feel of the increased weapon sway as it feels too smooth to be an adrenaline reaction. Maybe a flinch-like aimpunch with a cooldown after the first shot rings by. Hoping devs strike a good balance, because aim and good judgement should win over simply unloading all over the place.

Edited by pinko

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