Jump to content
embecmom

New Revive ability

Recommended Posts

Let's wait for we can actually play test the new changes. 

For my part, I am not sure about tank crew sizes. But I do not go berserk on the forums. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Psyrus said:

@Caliell
Are you sure that they are "not allowed"? Rather by policy they generally don't carry fragmentation grenades etc... but there would be nothing in the "rules" that would stop them if they determined they needed/wanted to?

I swore Hippocratic Oath in AIT. Every medical professional does, which means "Do no harm" as ironic as it is. From what I remember, if nothing had changed since my time, we wasn't "allowed" or given offensive weaponry aside from standard issue rifle and perhaps a sidearm. Was I trained in use of other weapons? You bet I was. In fact 68W was my second enlistment. My very first one was as 19D Cavalry Scout, where I trained to use more weapons in US Arsenal than even 11B infantrymen get to play with on daily basis. Medics do get training on use of other weapons, due to the fact there could be times when you might be needed to use them, but obviously your job is to save lives (technically keep someone alive until someone who can operate on them can fix their booboo). Maybe other countries like Britain will issue rifle with full on grenade launcher, but you will be hard pressed to find any US medic either in photo or check military forums to find one who had offensive weaponry such as fragmentation grenades issued to them.

That's from my personal experience though and yes, rules do change on "Battalion/Brigade level" since the current wars are against combatants who do not follow Geneva Conventions and thus some medics could be prescribed grenades and such (I knew medics who was assigned as gunners, on the vehicles with the giant bulls eye i.e. Red Cross painted in the middle, but that was the most extreme I've heard/seen). Perhaps times have changed, but as it was at my discharge date at 2012, no medic that I knew of carried frag grenades.

 

Here is the link for the manual to US Army's standard loads. Page 47 is for the Combat Medic. 

http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/modernwarriorload/ModernWarriorsCombatLoadReport.pdf

Edited by Caliell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, CptDirty said:

Not quite, any non-medic player will be able to revive a downed "incapacitated" teammate back to life so they can fight but at the price of low health and reduced stamina regeneration I believe. Once the downed teammate is up they would need to find a medic to heal them back to full health and full stamina regeneration. Medics will still be needed but in theory with this change, the revived teammates will need to find a medic nearby in order to get healed which should help keep medics alive more. 

dont know yet if they will be able to move with no stamina or reduced movement, but all the same as now, someone needs to heal them first and it doesnt happen that often the reliance is on the medic to run in and do it... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an ex-combat medic I carried 2x grenade. Never used them in anger and I remember passing one over to a buddy while I was treating a casualty. I would have had no problems lobbing it at someone if I need to though.

 

This may (again) just becoming from a British perspective but the "do not harm" as a medic was pretty BS. In a contact I was just another rifleman putting rounds down at the enemy until I was needed. Yes technically my weapons were for myself and my casualties protection but think about it...would you really just sit there not shooting in a firefight when you could just "protect yourself" and help out. No, no you wouldn't 

 

The Hippocratic Oath is pretty outdated these days and isn't legally binding. Thankfully over here we never had to bother with such a silly thing.

 

On the subject of all team mates reviving....as mentioned before in the thread. These days all soldiers are trained how to treat themselves and others to a pretty high standard. Even the "militia" groups back in Afghan had a surprisingly high level of treatment and evac chain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this new revive mechanic is a brilliant way of increasing squad cohesion, making squad survivability more likely when you stick together, and taking some pressure off the medic and as a result making his job more bearable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Melbo said:

On the subject of all team mates reviving....as mentioned before in the thread. These days all soldiers are trained how to treat themselves and others to a pretty high standard. Even the "militia" groups back in Afghan had a surprisingly high level of treatment and evac chain.

^ This

Most soldiers are getting intermediate skills and knowledge to deal with casualties. It guarantee's the casualty gets the fastest response time for treatment, so they make it during the "golden hour" to get the advanced treatment they need. 

Soldiers learn a bit more these days, than the ol' plug wound and stab with morphine treatment from WW2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, embecmom said:

dont know yet if they will be able to move with no stamina or reduced movement, but all the same as now, someone needs to heal them first and it doesnt happen that often the reliance is on the medic to run in and do it... 

I hope that this new revive ability will let players that get revived by their non-medic teammates to be able to at least walk (not run) to cover and search for medic. At the very minimum, that's another gun that's back into the fight so I'll take that. 

 

If all this will do is just revive them at 1% health without bleeding and reduced/no stamina whatsoever, I'm cool with it :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, fatalsushi said:

I think this new revive mechanic is a brilliant way of increasing squad cohesion, making squad survivability more likely when you stick together, and taking some pressure off the medic and as a result making his job more bearable.

True, I only hope that they nerf rallies otherwise, any half decent squad with 2 medics and a SL who can keep a rally up will be almost immortal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Melbo said:

As an ex-combat medic I carried 2x grenade. Never used them in anger and I remember passing one over to a buddy while I was treating a casualty. I would have had no problems lobbing it at someone if I need to though.

 

This may (again) just becoming from a British perspective but the "do not harm" as a medic was pretty BS. In a contact I was just another rifleman putting rounds down at the enemy until I was needed. Yes technically my weapons were for myself and my casualties protection but think about it...would you really just sit there not shooting in a firefight when you could just "protect yourself" and help out. No, no you wouldn't 

 

The Hippocratic Oath is pretty outdated these days and isn't legally binding. Thankfully over here we never had to bother with such a silly thing.

 

On the subject of all team mates reviving....as mentioned before in the thread. These days all soldiers are trained how to treat themselves and others to a pretty high standard. Even the "militia" groups back in Afghan had a surprisingly high level of treatment and evac chain.

I already mentioned this both as Irony of Hippocratic Oath and grenades being British thing. As US Army medic, I did not get fragmentation grenades. That is apparently other armies' counterparts, specifically British. In either case that didn't bother me since I was able to load up on more supplies and ammo, since squad lead would never put me on the front as another rifleman. The answer is yes, technically I was just as you. However doctrines diverge there for every army and my squad leader preferred to keep me at the middle or almost rear of patrols. Ultimately my experience comes from Iraq and not Afghanistan as well, where urban combat was highly prevalent and the likelihood doing very little of bang bang and a lot of shearing someone's pants off and calling medievac was more likely.

If you read my earlier post I already mentioned that "The First Medicine in Combat is to Increase Lead to Air Ratio" or the fact everyone and their mother trained in CLS. I'll quote my previous post.

I am surprised you read my earlier remark that everyone is trained in CLS, but did not read the rest...Or you may not and read the recent posts. In either case a lot of what you said have been already mentioned and explained in the entire post.

 

As the former combat medic here are my two cents.

 

First of all in the firefights the first medicine of every and any "Doc" is "Increasing Lead to Air ratio." i.e. you wont see me running around bandaging people, until the incident is secured.

 

Second of all every soldier and their mother is trained in CLS (typically by yours humble moi) in a short 3 to 5 hour class of how to apply your personal IFAK to yourself or to others. 

 

The real life combat medics' job starts typically after the firefight or there is  reasonably enough leeway to be able safely provide medical skills. And it wouldn't be just me trying to treat everyone (I would be triaging the patients for the priority) with CLSes assisting me with either assigned CLS bags/satchels (those buttpacks Russian army carries all over which is copycat of actual US Army's buttpack) or if they are capable, I will be asking them to treat themselves, while I would be trying to assist those who cannot assist themselves.

 

Thus it is (kind of) realistic to see soldiers picking up others in combat.


However: 

 

Not to make Medic's role redundant in the game I believe that halving the amount of bandages carried by individual soldier should be implemented then and more bandages (ironically those are Israeli bandages in game and Insurgents do hate them) should be given to medic, to the realistic count of 10. I carried at least 20 in my medic bag.


Ultimately I believe there should be more than just Israeli bandage in game, but the actual First Aid and Medic's treatment should not look like simply as them pulling out one bandage and magically wrapping them around the holes. Rather would of been better if Offworld made random medical item shown up in the medic's or soldier's hands and applied just like the bandage, since every wound needs to be treated differently. That way it will create the illusion of being more authentic: For example if I am bandaging someone who just got shot through the chest, Hyfin seal appearing instead of the Israeli bandage would be more authentic representation, than... well the obvious magical Dressing bandage (Which is designed for Dressing wounds and not to plug them) that apparently works just like Motrin in US military being prescribed for everything and anything (for April Fool's developers should have every medic class pull out bottle of Motrin to revive and bandage soldiers).

For limb wounds CAT tourniquet.

For headshots emergency Crike or King Lt. tube or Bag valve and the mask.

Instead of medical kit, perhaps individual morphine ampules or quick clot bandages or belly bandage.

 

In either case since it is hard to implement into the game, I would simply propose for those items to appear at random as if the game assumed the casualty had those wounds. Thus the illusion that your character in game actually acts like the actual medical treatment personnel will be created.

 

As again this was the basic load during my time in the service. This is/was official US Army's manual for combat kit. Combat Medic's load is on Page 47. The only grenades I was issued was marking smoke grenades.

http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/modernwarriorload/ModernWarriorsCombatLoadReport.pdf

Edited by Caliell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Caliell said:

As again this was the basic load during my time in the service. This is/was official US Army's manual for combat kit. Combat Medic's load is on Page 47. The only grenades I was issued was marking smoke grenades.

http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/modernwarriorload/ModernWarriorsCombatLoadReport.pdf

realism aside, gameplay is hard enough to come by a medic, when they originally removed the nades it was even worse and because there was rarely a situation where the area is secured first and then a medic can begin triage, a)  no one wants to wait that long so give up  b) no one wants to wait that long so bleat and bleat for a medic c) usually its hi ho silver **** thinking he is in a Rambo movie (age) and runs in looking to wipe a whole squad but barely manages to get a round off.  So medics found themselves for the most part in the middle of the firefight with little to no protection. 

 

Would I prefer an element of realism absolutely, will we get that on public servers, never.  So for game play nades .. more bandages absolutely but a nice buff to the medic would not go amiss, different animations for bandaging, a nice to have but for me not necessary.   However, I would love to see body location damage where a player can be incapacitated in some way rather than the current COD style last stand.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, embecmom said:

realism aside, gameplay is hard enough to come by a medic, when they originally removed the nades it was even worse and because there was rarely a situation where the area is secured first and then a medic can begin triage, a)  no one wants to wait that long so give up  b) no one wants to wait that long so bleat and bleat for a medic c) usually its hi ho silver **** thinking he is in a Rambo movie (age) and runs in looking to wipe a whole squad but barely manages to get a round off.  So medics found themselves for the most part in the middle of the firefight with little to no protection. 

 

Would I prefer an element of realism absolutely, will we get that on public servers, never.  So for game play nades .. more bandages absolutely but a nice buff to the medic would not go amiss, different animations for bandaging, a nice to have but for me not necessary.   However, I would love to see body location damage where a player can be incapacitated in some way rather than the current COD style last stand.

 

This is from my personal perspective, since when I play Squad, I just happens 80% of the time I choose to be medic (is even between LAT and default Rifleman for obvious reasons). The problem with the medics, at least the ones who want to revive is the fact that survival rate of picking up people while being shot is extremely low. 

This is where smoke grenades are highly underrated, especially since you can stack them on the top of bleating down teammates. This is why at least for US faction would rather prefer to carry more smoke grenades than offensive grenade. It is much more prudent of saturating area with smoke, where many players got shot, than to have one frag grenade medic wise.

 

However here is the thing that might make the whole thing redundant if this is going to be true in the near future. - Limited customizable Kits akin to something like Insurgency. If that is going to happen, then this entire thread is moot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The more I think about this change, the more I like it. 

 

Thought experiment that made me like this change: You're downed, friendly non medic class revives you, you have low health and stamina, you need to limp to medic on battlefield to heal your health and stamina back, seems slightly more realistic especially with the fact that all players will be able to sort of "stabilize" a downed player and the medic will still be the only class that can heal. Not regening stamina is somewhat realistic too as you would be limping around with your wounds until the medic could patch you up. I think this is a pretty interesting and good change.

14 hours ago, paragonid said:

Changes sound good. Give medics optics kit option as well.

This probably will never happen, medics are actually one of the strongest classes in the game imo with the ability to self heal so having any sort of zoom option would make them way over powered and undermine some of the other classes that have zoom optics.

Edited by Gnarleus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Gnarleus said:

The more I think about this change, the more I like it. 

 

Thought experiment that made me like this change: You're downed, friendly non medic class revives you, you have low health and stamina, you need to limp to medic on battlefield to heal your health and stamina back, seems slightly more realistic especially with the fact that all players will be able to sort of "stabilize" a downed player and the medic will still be the only class that can heal. Not regening stamina is somewhat realistic too as you would be limping around with your wounds until the medic could patch you up. I think this is a pretty interesting a good change.

This probably will never happen, medics are actually one of the strongest classes in the game imo with the ability to self heal so having any sort of zoom option would make them way over powered and undermine some of the other classes that have zoom optics.

I'm quite sick of playing medic, I'd be slightly more interested if there were more non-optic kit options, like red dot or IS with the foregrip, which is my favorite for CQB. Same for other factions, give the medic a choice of more toys. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, LugNut said:

I'm quite sick of playing medic, I'd be slightly more interested if there were more non-optic kit options, like red dot or IS with the foregrip, which is my favorite for CQB. Same for other factions, give the medic a choice of more toys. 

Might as well give all classes some form of optic then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gnarleus said:

Might as well give all classes some form of optic then.

I said "non-optic". A medic is supposed to only need a rifle for CQB fighting, which is why they took the nades away, and then gave one back since it sucked. If the medic role had the option of different weapons/sights, maybe people would play it more. I might, especially on some maps.  You can already choose different weapons with the SL class, it's doable in a limited form. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, LugNut said:

I said "non-optic". A medic is supposed to only need a rifle for CQB fighting, which is why they took the nades away, and then gave one back since it sucked. If the medic role had the option of different weapons/sights, maybe people would play it more. I might, especially on some maps.  You can already choose different weapons with the SL class, it's doable in a limited form. 

I am very sorry I totally misinterpreted your message my bad! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, LugNut said:

I said "non-optic". A medic is supposed to only need a rifle for CQB fighting, which is why they took the nades away, and then gave one back since it sucked. If the medic role had the option of different weapons/sights, maybe people would play it more. I might, especially on some maps.  You can already choose different weapons with the SL class, it's doable in a limited form. 

red dot and smokes +1 nade no extra bandages...

 

iron sights and 2 nades + 1 smoke and extra bandages

Edited by embecmom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Gnarleus said:

I am very sorry I totally misinterpreted your message my bad! 

No worries :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's an urgent need to make people interested in playing medic.

 

In the current mechanics medic is intended to be in every squad, but it's typical that people are avoiding it and there's much less than 1.5 medics per squad in average.

Adding optics to make medic kit wanted and players to compete to have will increase overall quality, because it's easier to select better player for medic than to persuade people to be one

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, paragonid said:

There's an urgent need to make people interested in playing medic.

 

In the current mechanics medic is intended to be in every squad, but it's typical that people are avoiding it and there's much less than 1.5 medics per squad in average.

Adding optics to make medic kit wanted and players to compete to have will increase overall quality, because it's easier to select better player for medic than to persuade people to be one

 

The potential problem with that is, you get people who grab the medic kit not because they want to play as a medic, but because they want an optic on their rifle, and they play accordingly.

At least now, people who choose medic will at play as a medic, even grudgingly. 

 

I'm not against incentivising the role; personally I don't mind playing medic, but even I get tired of it after a few games, so I can see why it's not always a popular role to choose.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, DaiaBu said:

 

The potential problem with that is, you get people who grab the medic kit not because they want to play as a medic, but because they want an optic on their rifle, and they play accordingly.

At least now, people who choose medic will at play as a medic, even grudgingly. 

 

I'm not against incentivising the role; personally I don't mind playing medic, but even I get tired of it after a few games, so I can see why it's not always a popular role to choose.   

this is where the SL has to step up and get rid if they dont...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, embecmom said:

this is where the SL has to step up and get rid if they dont...

Don't take it the wrong way please, but i feel like this is the standard answer to a lot of objections to new features or game mechanics. Let the SL supervise the right use of it. Like the SL has not already enough to do. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Borsti said:

Don't take it the wrong way please, but i feel like this is the standard answer to a lot of objections to new features or game mechanics. Let the SL supervise the right use of it. Like the SL has not already enough to do. 

I dont, but if you have a medic that wont medic then they are next to useless in the squad.. the radio will have more moaning on it about why the guy is not reviving people or trying so its actually more of a hassle than just saying to the guy pick another role or medic or kick..thats what I do but each SL has their own way of handling things .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do those that find medic boring because lack of optic feel the same way when playing irregular militia or insurgent and using the iron sight? I would assume your answer might be yes. If that is the case one could argue that these factions are't usually seen with optics (in real life), but I think that could be up for debate. What about medics on irregular and insurgent do they get optics as well?

 

To me where I see this discussion sort of heading to is, there are a lot of players who find not having some sort of optic boring. So is the problem really about just the medic? Or is it about all classes that have iron sights?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×