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New Revive ability

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1 hour ago, Caliell said:

Second of all every soldier and their mother is trained in CLS (typically by yours humble moi) in a short 3 to 5 hour class of how to apply your personal IFAK to yourself or to others. 

 

Thus it is (kind of) realistic to see soldiers picking up others in combat.

This update seems like a step towards a more authentic but still fun approach to this point. Any professional soldier should be able to reasonably stabalize a casualty for a medic to get to later. Prior to this the medic had to run into whatever foolish place a player was downed at. Now we can get downed players into cover without waiting for a drag mechanic.

 

I am like your ideas for an expanded medical system, hopefully a few will make it into the game.

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6 hours ago, Sparcany said:

This update seems like a step towards a more authentic but still fun approach to this point. Any professional soldier should be able to reasonably stabalize a casualty for a medic to get to later. Prior to this the medic had to run into whatever foolish place a player was downed at. Now we can get downed players into cover without waiting for a drag mechanic.

This is already the case, in case you are not aware. Any soldier can stop the bleeding with their bandage, not only on themselves but on fallen mates as well (stabilizing) for the Medic to arrive and finish the job.

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6 hours ago, Sparcany said:

This update seems like a step towards a more authentic but still fun approach to this point. Any professional soldier should be able to reasonably stabalize a casualty for a medic to get to later. Prior to this the medic had to run into whatever foolish place a player was downed at. Now we can get downed players into cover without waiting for a drag mechanic.

 

I am like your ideas for an expanded medical system, hopefully a few will make it into the game.

...  people keep talking about this new 'revive ability' all players will have, the only difference from now is that it actually brings the player round instead of just stopping them bleeding and instead of the medic getting them fully recovered they just heal stamina now.  Any player has the ability now to heal another player when they are down, this changes nothing for the medic role, why are the majority of players not healing others and helping the medic atm?

 

So a medic will still have to do exactly the same thing, i.e run into contact if he wants to get the guys stamina back up so they are an effective soldier IF someone has revived, or run in and  revive and raise stamina.  

 

I see that in terms of the game the ability for anyone revive a medic who can then heal themselves and help others as a positive step,  as someone already alluded to which I initially didnt.   But in itself is this enough of a change to help with the SL 'someone take medic' guess we will see in game..

 

 

 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Xeinar said:

This is already the case, in case you are not aware. Any soldier can stop the bleeding with their bandage, not only on themselves but on fallen mates as well (stabilizing) for the Medic to arrive and finish the job.

Downed players still bleed out after being bandaged.

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On 7/4/2018 at 10:27 PM, XRobinson said:

Who helps the medic when he goes down?

 

In 2015, devs revealed that downed teammates would not leave behind their medic kit. This would prevent the last remaining player in a squad from finding the medic kit and reviving everyone. This is how it worked in PR.

 

The functionality is now returning. Very sneaky devs, do not appreciate. If there's no medic around, I fully expect my victims to remain wounded. We shouldn't think about how convenient it will be to revive teammates when nobody wants to be medic, we should think about how many enemy soldiers will return to battle after they're shot.

 

-1

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I'd support being able to treat teammates so they are stable, can't bleed out, and are revived, but are VERY limited in their movement. Crawl only perhaps? If the medic is only going to give a stam buff, it would reduce the value of their role. Having a medic will become a nice thing to have, but not necessary if you can still move and fight like you can now after self bandaging a minor wound. 

 

I hope in the future we see specific damage leading to different incapacitated states, as well as fully untreated wounds relating to specific nerfs. Arm wound = increased sway after bandaging until fully healed by a medic, etc. 

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On 6/7/2018 at 12:16 PM, Sparcany said:

Downed players still bleed out after being bandaged.

I've never seen this happening, but I could be unaware of this feature. Could you please give some more details on this, like how long does it take for a stabilized soldier to die by bleeding? Just for us to test and confirm?

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The change sounds like a good compromise in the place of dragging/carrying teammates. Revived players will be greatly hampered until healed, and with 2 bandages non-medics will still need medics more often than not. Player dragging may be awesome but this sounds much easier to implement.

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15 hours ago, Xeinar said:

I've never seen this happening, but I could be unaware of this feature. Could you please give some more details on this, like how long does it take for a stabilized soldier to die by bleeding? Just for us to test and confirm?

"After 3 minutes your character will bleed out and die. If a bandage is applied while incapacitated the rate at which you bleed out will be halved"

https://squad.gamepedia.com/Health_Management

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1 hour ago, Sparcany said:

"After 3 minutes your character will bleed out and die. If a bandage is applied while incapacitated the rate at which you bleed out will be halved"

https://squad.gamepedia.com/Health_Management

Pretty sure that only applies to soldiers who are in the incapacitated state. The new system will have the bandage taking them out of the incapacitated state 

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On 7/6/2018 at 6:11 AM, embecmom said:

Any player has the ability now to heal another player when they are down, this changes nothing for the medic role, why are the majority of players not healing others and helping the medic atm?

 

So a medic will still have to do exactly the same thing, i.e run into contact if he wants to get the guys stamina back up so they are an effective soldier IF someone has revived, or run in and  revive and raise stamina.

Not quite, any non-medic player will be able to revive a downed "incapacitated" teammate back to life so they can fight but at the price of low health and reduced stamina regeneration I believe. Once the downed teammate is up they would need to find a medic to heal them back to full health and full stamina regeneration. Medics will still be needed but in theory with this change, the revived teammates will need to find a medic nearby in order to get healed which should help keep medics alive more. 

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this is just the start as a test. it can be expanded in so many ways eg

  • heat pumping sounds and difficulty hearing, surging and muffled audio might be a good one. not being able to hear is quite distressing and adding gunfire and explosions to the situation would all be pretty realistic.
  • blurred and darkened vision, irregular surging might be nice in this as well. moments of clarity.
  • returning to bleeding state from excessive movement, eg dropping from a wall, prone to standing and back a lot, running to zero stamina or just after a long period without further treatment.
  • increase the suppression effects for unhealthy people.
  • make their animations different, stumbling and tripping while moving. 
  • Make the ADS drop out occasionally like their hands are slippery.
  • bandages being salvaged from dead players would be an interesting change to gameplay.
  • Adrenalin simulation, give them a chance at fighting back but punish them for it using the above. I've seen a normal size guy lift a car with no wheels on it which fell off supports off his own arm which was crushed with 2 broken bones.

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Would be interesting to see players who have been patched suffer from a similar system as those who have been suppressed, in that gun swaying, blurred vision and perhaps slowed down further?

 

An option to use a buddies bandage would also be helpful.  

 

I play the Medic role a lot (Really wish the M4 was still full auto on the Yanks).  I have found in the past that some squad mates are smart enough to buddy up and patch a downed squad mate before I arrive, effectively stabilising them before I bring them back into the fight.  Maybe a similar system where the stabilised player can fire their weapon etc, but cannot move?

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On 06/07/2018 at 2:37 AM, Caliell said:

As the former combat medic here are my two cents.

 

First of all in the firefights the first medicine of every and any "Doc" is "Increasing Lead to Air ratio." i.e. you wont see me running around bandaging people, until the incident is secured.

 

Second of all every soldier and their mother is trained in CLS (typically by yours humble moi) in a short 3 to 5 hour class of how to apply your personal IFAK to yourself or to others. 

 

The real life combat medics' job starts typically after the firefight or there is  reasonably enough leeway to be able safely provide medical skills. And it wouldn't be just me trying to treat everyone (I would be triaging the patients for the priority) with CLSes assisting me with either assigned CLS bags/satchels (those buttpacks Russian army carries all over which is copycat of actual US Army's buttpack) or if they are capable, I will be asking them to treat themselves, while I would be trying to assist those who cannot assist themselves.

 

Thus it is (kind of) realistic to see soldiers picking up others in combat.


However: 

 

Not to make Medic's role redundant in the game I believe that halving the amount of bandages carried by individual soldier should be implemented then and more bandages (ironically those are Israeli bandages in game and Insurgents do hate them) should be given to medic, to the realistic count of 10. I carried at least 20 in my medic bag.


Ultimately I believe there should be more than just Israeli bandage in game, but the actual First Aid and Medic's treatment should not look like simply as them pulling out one bandage and magically wrapping them around the holes. Rather would of been better if Offworld made random medical item shown up in the medic's or soldier's hands and applied just like the bandage, since every wound needs to be treated differently. That way it will create the illusion of being more authentic: For example if I am bandaging someone who just got shot through the chest, Hyfin seal appearing instead of the Israeli bandage would be more authentic representation, than... well the obvious magical Dressing bandage (Which is designed for Dressing wounds and not to plug them) that apparently works just like Motrin in US military being prescribed for everything and anything (for April Fool's developers should have every medic class pull out bottle of Motrin to revive and bandage soldiers).

For limb wounds CAT tourniquet.

For headshots emergency Crike or King Lt. tube or Bag valve and the mask.

Instead of medical kit, perhaps individual morphine ampules or quick clot bandages or belly bandage.

 

In either case since it is hard to implement into the game, I would simply propose for those items to appear at random as if the game assumed the casualty had those wounds. Thus the illusion that your character in game actually acts like the actual medical treatment personnel will be created.

We had a discussion quite a long time ago about what medical kit could be added even if it's just a cosmetic effect. All those ideas and more were thrown into the hat so you never know what's in store down the line.

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On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 4:49 AM, MultiSquid said:

I wouldn't knock it until I see it in action. Even if I'm geting a bit of PUBG vibe from this particular revive system. Over the time I've spent here I've seen tons of threads doubting the upcoming features and I'm pretty sure majority of those threads turned out to be wrong in the end. The developers are not bashing rocks together, if they're adding substantial gamechanging mechanics to the game it's usually after a lot of forethought and testing.

 

I'll happily be the first to call it out if it turns out badly, but for now let's just look forward to the changes and see where they lead. People just don't want to play medic now, that I think we can all agree on.

KNOCKED. Come on OWI, you guys need to stay focused on delivering and improving on the core experience you guys yourselves loved so much about BF:PR. Don't go down the "pander to casual audiences" rabbit hole Battlefield did. Try not to even flirt with it. 

 

Allowing other roles to revive besides medic, WILL RUIN MEDIC. Period. There's no need to guess about this. You guys should be working on getting dragging and carrying unconscious team mates into the game before whatever it is you are trying to do with this "cpr" non-sense. 

 

Also, medics need more bandages than they currently have. More pistol ammo would be nice too. 

 

If you guys are itching to add different "role" content to the game, why not add an "ammo bearer" class. The ammo bearer will basically act as an ammunition dispenser for the squad, who carries "extra" ammo that squad mates can get by having the ammo bearer or squad leader approve an ammo request, and then allowing players to interact with the ammo bearer's backpack to take ammo. Food for thought. 

 

Also, you guys seriously need to enable some sort of way for players to loot ammo and supplies from unconscious or dead (make it so player corpses don't de-spawn immediately after they give up) players. 

 

Even more also-er...

 

If you want to do something with "CPR", perhaps the only way it could work well is if: 

1. Set it so that unconscious players bleed out faster/ bleed out depending on the seriousness of the wounds they have sustained (let's be real, headshots should just always be instant kills, but that is besides the point). 

 

2. CPR will allow team mates to keep a player from dying in unconscious state by halting the loss of blood. Bandages will still do the same (plus allowing for revive, however, if a player is not a medic, it may take more than one bandage to get the job done properly. This will introduce a decision for team mates to make, "spend my bandages to save my team mate, or just hold out for a medic with CPR". 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, LuxCapere said:

Allowing other roles to revive besides medic, WILL RUIN MEDIC. Period. There's no need to guess about this

How about test it before preaching how bad/good it is? Perhaps you're not able to look at this objectively and are letting your emotions dictate your opinion on the matter? 

 

It's planned, it's coming, let it flop and then you'll have evidence to back your assumptions....

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1 hour ago, CptDirty said:

How about test it before preaching how bad/good it is? Perhaps you're not able to look at this objectively and are letting your emotions dictate your opinion on the matter? 

 

It's planned, it's coming, let it flop and then you'll have evidence to back your assumptions....

 

Nope. He used capital letters and said "period". Argument won. 

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I applaud this change. This is just a baby step towards realism however. Next ditch the Sci-fi Rally's & HAB teleportation devices, add more transport vehicles at main and then further buff the medic class to be able drop medpacks for everyone to pick up and use to return to a fighting state themselves.

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Posted (edited)

Just to add, perhaps on of the few simple things to make it more realistic is to get rid of fragmentation grenades in medic kit and add another smoke grenade. Medics are not allowed to carry offensive grenades and their weapons issued primarily for the defense of their patients.

 

But yes, medics indeed need more bandages. Making Medics should not be redundant, but at the same time making it semi realistic and compromise able (CLS training?) reduce the number of IFAKs (bandages) on non medical kits from two to one. Definitely would be nice to have the option if to revive, to use the downed player's IFAK instead of personal IFAK and it should take such long time, that it could be considered not worth it if there is medic close by. Yes, it will not make any sense to relegate Medic class to redundancy of healing just stamina bar.

 

Dragging casualties into the game is definitely one of the must features need to be added into the game.

Edited by Caliell

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5 minutes ago, Caliell said:

Just to add, perhaps on of the few simple things to make it more realistic is to get rid of fragmentation grenades in medic kit and add another smoke grenade. Medics are not allowed to carry offensive grenades and their weapons issued primarily for the defense of their patients.

I don't think that's right...?

http://www.businessinsider.com/military-medic-gear-2014-6

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Psyrus said:

 The article addresses apparently British medics, which I find it extremely non sensical why would a combat medic carry infantry level of rifle, with 40mm grenade launcher with full combat load and less of medical supplies needed for his job. US Army's medics do not carry offensive grenades. At least I never did. I had M4 with ACOG and mini Reflex Sight on it, other than that it was fully loaded medical bag and 4 marking smoke grenades and 9mm pistol with 2 magazines.

Edited by Caliell

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@Caliell
Are you sure that they are "not allowed"? Rather by policy they generally don't carry fragmentation grenades etc... but there would be nothing in the "rules" that would stop them if they determined they needed/wanted to?

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43 minutes ago, Caliell said:

Just to add, perhaps on of the few simple things to make it more realistic is to get rid of fragmentation grenades in medic kit and add another smoke grenade. Medics are not allowed to carry offensive grenades and their weapons issued primarily for the defense of their patients.

 

But yes, medics indeed need more bandages. Making Medics should not be redundant, but at the same time making it semi realistic and compromise able (CLS training?) reduce the number of IFAKs (bandages) on non medical kits from two to one. Definitely would be nice to have the option if to revive, to use the downed player's IFAK instead of personal IFAK and it should take such long time, that it could be considered not worth it if there is medic close by. Yes, it will not make any sense to relegate Medic class to redundancy of healing just stamina bar.

 

Dragging casualties into the game is definitely one of the must features need to be added into the game.

Figured the 'medic' role is supposed to represent a squad-level guy with a CLS bag in the first place, and not a true combat medic.

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It's very obvious the Medic class needs a serious buff plus a specialized skill. Medics have become increasingly marginalized and because of it the game has become a glorified TDM where dying doesn't matter to anyone, just part of doing business right?

 

Personally I don't like dying even once in a match. This is from a match played 20 minutes ago and pretty much sums up my point that over the course of an 1.5 hour match as a squad we took 13 tickets...

 

Again, glorified TDM...

 

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