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embecmom

New Revive ability

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Posted (edited)

Ok I know its only just hit the recap (which looked awesome) but it immediately raised a concern that this is really demoting the medic role more,  to a point it is no longer a pure medic role but a glorified Alien Hit point regenerator station...(if you have it you will know what I mean).  

 

The medic really needs some love but this makes him even less important ... feels like the medic role is being phased out to a point squad is turning slightly more towards arcade than milsim ... 

 

Not a lot of people like to play it because they dont see healing teammates as important but there are other things that could be added to ensure a medic is required in the squad not just a nanny with a bandaid.

Edited by embecmom

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Medics will still be very important. They will still have way more bandages than other classes. I think reviving done by the other kits will still be limited, since they need their bandages to stop bleeding. I think it will only be use as a last chance to get SL up to set new rally.

 

Also medics bandage faster than other classes.

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Medic importance is still high. When you get revived you won't have stam until a medic, med bags you. No stam means you won't be able to full sprint, vault/jump and aim accurately, until a medic touches you with his magical bag.

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I don't really get the point of the changes to the revive system announced today. Enabling any player to revive fallen mates means flattening the gameplay and removing part of the tactical situation Squad is currently giving to the players.

 

While we all agree that fun > real life, it looks utterly not realistic that anyone can simply approach someone and revive him. The Medic class reflects the specific need of deploying trained, qualified personnel on the battlefield who are able to treat wounds and help teammates. The current iteration of having anyone being able to stop the bleeding is probably the best compromise indeed, promoting teamplay (the medic doesn't have an indefinite number of bandages) and mutual help.

 

What is the added value of a medic from now on? Maxing the health or the stamina of other people? There is little to no point in keeping playing medic; the fighting equipment is often of lower value than a generic rifleman and I expect a mass migration of specialized medics to other classes.
As of today, a medic is a real asset in the team, just like all the other specialized classes (from the AT to the grenadier, to the marksman and so on). Reviving people under fire requires skills and experience; just like any other kit, it can be played by anyone but mastering it requires specialization and a bit of dedication. Having good medics can make the difference in battle, just like the fact that the tactical options changes dramatically knowing you have or don't have medics close when you are launching an assault or are waiting to be revived.

 

On top of this, playing medic is sometimes the choice for players which are not that good in the firefighting but that can provide a consistent and priceless support to the team with their altruist attitude. They are rewarded by the fundamental support provided to the team, rather than the shooting skills.

 

We are picking probably what is the most teamplaying kit in the game and trashing it into the bin. Is this the way we want Squad to proceed? What is next, promoting the K:D ratio over the team/faction result? Not counting that, on this basis, there is no point in restricting the AT use to the AT class only, the grenadier to grenadiers, driving heavy vehicles to crewman only...

 

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I wouldn't knock it until I see it in action. Even if I'm geting a bit of PUBG vibe from this particular revive system. Over the time I've spent here I've seen tons of threads doubting the upcoming features and I'm pretty sure majority of those threads turned out to be wrong in the end. The developers are not bashing rocks together, if they're adding substantial gamechanging mechanics to the game it's usually after a lot of forethought and testing.

 

I'll happily be the first to call it out if it turns out badly, but for now let's just look forward to the changes and see where they lead. People just don't want to play medic now, that I think we can all agree on.

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I quite like playing medic sometimes, as I'm one of those who doesn't rate his shooting ability that much, but still likes to be an asset. Also, I'm a coward, so playing medic is a good excuse for not being the first to kick doors in :D Although I will be honest, after a few rounds, it can become a little tiresome.

 

Not sure what I think of this new system yet. One the one hand, it makes medics a little less valuable, true - but not hugely so. I'm assuming non-medics will still only carry two bandages, so it's not like a pair of players can go off alone knowing they can keep reviving themselves, and they still need to sacrifice a bandage that could save their own life in the aftermath of a firefight. And a player who is revived with no stamina and reduced vision isn't going to be doing much good but limping off to find the medic anyway. 

 

Sidenote: isn't this how it is in PS currently? But I think the bandage was the stop bleeding/revive tool, and the morphine syringe was for healing or something? I've only played PS for a couple of hours, and not much of that was as medic. 

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People dont like or want to be a medic becouse thy are (you know what) and even if someone is a medic he usually is chilling and doing nothing so many times it happened to me i am dead and the team medic is chilling in a house.You need a medic that will be actually a combat medic that will sacrafise his life to save another team mate not just a squad mate.Thats how i play medic.

The medic role matters a lot but some players and SL just dont see it that way.For me the medic is ok how he is now.

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certainly worth testing. 

the low health after a revive will be very interesting as well.

 

my worries...

Bandage count, i need both my bandages sorry, i expect to live for another 5 -10 mins :P 

if I am using the downed guys bandage I will happily help him. If he died he probably isnt very good, best i keep my bandage for myself :)

 

 

 

 

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ou yes suds. But may be ... may be you will need ammo and may be may be that guy will have ammo with him. Or may be he will be LAT and enemy armors just show in area. Or may be ... he is a medic. Or SL and you are last guy. togather you will be able to place RP.

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Yeah yeah I get the stamina thing but if anyone can revive anyone, it makes defending kind of broken because the person will still be alive and in the cap point. So even if they can't fight it makes it harder for attackers to cap because downed players can be picked up so much faster.

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how many times ? You are last two guys who hold cap zone. One of you is down ... enemy cap. oh. frag....one is down. You revive him ... ok he is back. That was your last bandage. It sure will have impacts for sure. But i would give it a chance before any doubts. May be its really great stuff we just dont know. And our imagination dont allow us see all possibilities with it. 

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Posted (edited)

As someone who plays mostly as a medic I welcome this change. The universal revive ability will put some pressure off the medics so they don't need to hang back all the time and can instead join the firefight more often. This will in turn make the medic role a lot more attractive, which is sorely needed considering how Squad Leaders often have to force people to choose that role.

The fact that you need a medic to regain your stamina once revived means that the medic role is still one of the most important roles in a squad. Imagine an entire squad without a medic where everyone has been at some point revived. They would be the most useless squad in the whole team. Their aim would be utter shit, their practically imobile and probably can't see shit.

 

But now is the perfect time to switch out the medic bag with a saline bag instead. (A purely visual change)

This is what the medic should look like when he is healing someone. It shouldn't be too hard to implement, considering that the medics stance while using the force to heal someone is somewhat similar.

Edited by Gaius Marius

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Dubs said:

Medic importance is still high. When you get revived you won't have stam until a medic, med bags you. No stam means you won't be able to full sprint, vault/jump and aim accurately, until a medic touches you with his magical bag.

not sure I see the point of the change...would it not be better the other way around.. the medic can revive people and the other players can heal their stamina? 

 

 

Im struggling to see the positives for the medic role with this...

 

it of course has positives for the game in that now you dont need a medic to get an SL up to put down a rally even though he wont be able to move which is a bit gamey, or as someone mentioned get bodies revived on a point to stop or delay a cap. ..but as it is you rarely get other squad mates reviving atm... 

 

doesnt really change anything with people giving up ... first thing your going to do is shout dont get me up if there is not a medic about, and you dont want to be lying there for an age waiting to die ... 

 

 

if spawn times were changed or there was something that made the player rather get revived and wait than respawn then I see the point ...just dont atm, unless the new spawn mechanics for rallies and fobs play into this somehow.

 

Edited by embecmom

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Posted (edited)

I think if they do it right it could be good. But the downed player should basically be incapacitated in practically every ability except waking back to the medic. Not even running. And he should bleed out if he doesn't see a doctor in like 5 minutes. That way medic will still be totally vital as a role! Also remember in real life teammates would be able to drag or carry a wounded soldier of the front towards the medic and this feature isn't available here, hence it isn't totally unrealistic either. 

 

I think it could be a good feature in so that if you accidentally downed someone or even the medic, you have a chance to make up for the bad mishap.

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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Posted (edited)

You gotta think trough the consequences this has. It really does not nerf medics. In fact, this is an incredible buff to the medic and team play over all. Not only does this make it more fun to be a medic, but it's also even more crucial to have one in your squad. Let me explain:

 

Two things you have to consider, is that a) anyone can revive the medic, and b) people who get revived still need a medic. Which leads to the following:

1. The medic is no longer a fragile snowflake who has to do everything to stay out of combat. With the current system, the medic dying meant the entire squad is suddenly out of revives. With the new system, if the medic dies, you clear the area, someone gets medic up, job done. No need for rally, no need for anyone to respawn and be potentially separated for the next 15 minutes, etc. This practically equalizes the huge gap that existed between the medics and everyone else when it gets to combat participation. This generally means more people will be willing to pick up the kit, and it's going to be more fun/diverse playing as the medic. Sure, I'm not saying the medics should be the guys on the front breaching doors, but they got promoted from special-snowflake-who-screws-over-the-entire-squad-if-he-gets-sneezed-upon, to regular joe just having his responsibilities like everyone else.

2. This also means that the medic is more important than ever to have. Again, since the medic can be revived, they are indirectly orders of magnitudes more useful. If two squads get in a firefight, if one single guy survives, he can find the medic, and revive the entire squad. This practically means that you can avoid having to respawn all the time. Additionally, staying around your squad instead of running off your own just became way more desirable, as the chances of getting a revive are exponentially higher.

 

To recap: Medic is more fun, medic is more powerful, teamplay is incentivized. Everybody wins, 10/10 feature. :D

 

 

Edited by Aleon

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If this change was done in isolation, then I would have the same concerns as you, but I see this as a great balance to them moving towards a stricter spawning system with HAB overruns. I would guess that rallypoints may get some kind of nerf in the future as well, which means that with the huge distances in squad (5x5km anyone?) that making the revive system slightly more forgiving really creates a nice balance where intra-squad teamwork gets promoted, rather than "just spawn back in because the medic(s) is/are down". 

 

I really like it, because the current FOB/HAB system isn't great in my opinion, and the next iteration is a great step in the right direction, but I still want Squad to be slightly more accessible than PR.. and allowing anyone to use their bandage to pick up friendlies is an excellent compromise, as far as I'm concerned. The unlimited revives on medics in Post Scriptum is basically the only thing I like about that game, and I think that Squad's gameplay will benefit from these changes. 

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18 hours ago, embecmom said:

Ok I know its only just hit the recap (which looked awesome) but it immediately raised a concern that this is really demoting the medic role more,  to a point it is no longer a pure medic role but a glorified Alien Hit point regenerator station...(if you have it you will know what I mean).  

 

The medic really needs some love but this makes him even less important ... feels like the medic role is being phased out to a point squad is turning slightly more towards arcade than milsim ... 

 

Not a lot of people like to play it because they dont see healing teammates as important but there are other things that could be added to ensure a medic is required in the squad not just a nanny with a bandaid.

In project reality you could swap kits , in that case every player was essinatily a medic as long as your squad stayed together , but still it wasn't as arcady as some people might think . 

I personally really like the idea of a friendly revive , a lot of people don't like to stare at the incapacitated death screen and wait for a medic , i think a friendly revive should be a thing , but without a medic to finish the healing process , the next bullet to hit you will finish the job , and also you might have other effects from not being fully healed , like more sway and recoil i guess . 

Just give us the "carrying incapacitated friendlys to safety" system and this shit will be awsome ! You will see other players taking care of their teammates , not only medics .

 

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10 hours ago, Aleon said:

You gotta think trough the consequences this has. It really does not nerf medics. In fact, this is an incredible buff to the medic and team play over all. Not only does this make it more fun to be a medic, but it's also even more crucial to have one in your squad. Let me explain:

 

Two things you have to consider, is that a) anyone can revive the medic, and b) people who get revived still need a medic. Which leads to the following:

1. The medic is no longer a fragile snowflake who has to do everything to stay out of combat. With the current system, the medic dying meant the entire squad is suddenly out of revives. With the new system, if the medic dies, you clear the area, someone gets medic up, job done. No need for rally, no need for anyone to respawn and be potentially separated for the next 15 minutes, etc. This practically equalizes the huge gap that existed between the medics and everyone else when it gets to combat participation. This generally means more people will be willing to pick up the kit, and it's going to be more fun/diverse playing as the medic. Sure, I'm not saying the medics should be the guys on the front breaching doors, but they got promoted from special-snowflake-who-screws-over-the-entire-squad-if-he-gets-sneezed-upon, to regular joe just having his responsibilities like everyone else.

2. This also means that the medic is more important than ever to have. Again, since the medic can be revived, they are indirectly orders of magnitudes more useful. If two squads get in a firefight, if one single guy survives, he can find the medic, and revive the entire squad. This practically means that you can avoid having to respawn all the time. Additionally, staying around your squad instead of running off your own just became way more desirable, as the chances of getting a revive are exponentially higher.

 

To recap: Medic is more fun, medic is more powerful, teamplay is incentivized. Everybody wins, 10/10 feature. :D

 

 

point 2 makes sense  but what I worry about is that its now allowing medics to charge headfirst into combat because they can be revived vs holding back.  As for lone wolfing its not going to stop that, anyone that lone wolfs doesnt care and infact if you can be revived by anyone it means you dont need to stick with your squad. 

 

Im just disappointed they didnt give the medic a bit of love with some different features but I guess it can happen later.

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Lone wolves are alone, so by definition there shouldn't be anyone able to revive them.

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13 hours ago, Aleon said:

 

...good stuff....

 

well said Aleon.

 

For me the worst thing about playing medic was the imbalance between medic and other players. 

The medic has to risk themselves constantly to get people back up and I will often say "no im not coming into that open field or onto the roof". Now we can send the chumps to do the risky revive and the casualty will be able to come to the medic for healing.

Now I can say, "no, i'm too important" :D

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I think this will help make up for the lack of a drag mechanic in the current game.

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From the comments encouraging this change, it seems the positive aspects are:

  • less caring about approaching the enemy as you can be easily revived
  • the casualties resulted from a firefight will impact only the losing faction
  • it is said medics are still useful but it is really not clear how

It seems we are just shifting from a game that needs strategy and a reasoned approach to a more or less Call of Duty arcade game.

I think Medic as a role is dying, as well as the more strategic layer of the game. This is a major gameplay change which will deeply impact the matches. Teamplayers will keep on being teamplayers, loners will remain loners; but the game will change into something different from what it made it unique.

 

As a side note, as a Combat Medic with 300 hours of experience, I completely disagree with this sentence: "Medic is more fun, medic is more powerful, teamplay is incentivized". I feel it is the very opposite.

 

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2 hours ago, suds said:

well said Aleon.

 

For me the worst thing about playing medic was the imbalance between medic and other players. 

The medic has to risk themselves constantly to get people back up and I will often say "no im not coming into that open field or onto the roof". Now we can send the chumps to do the risky revive and the casualty will be able to come to the medic for healing.

Now I can say, "no, i'm too important" :D

so what you are saying as a medic someone else take responsiblity for revives ..medic is just going to patch that suckers stamina...if everyone doesnt want to take resonsibiliyt will that not leave more dead?

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As the former combat medic here are my two cents.

 

First of all in the firefights the first medicine of every and any "Doc" is "Increasing Lead to Air ratio." i.e. you wont see me running around bandaging people, until the incident is secured.

 

Second of all every soldier and their mother is trained in CLS (typically by yours humble moi) in a short 3 to 5 hour class of how to apply your personal IFAK to yourself or to others. 

 

The real life combat medics' job starts typically after the firefight or there is  reasonably enough leeway to be able safely provide medical skills. And it wouldn't be just me trying to treat everyone (I would be triaging the patients for the priority) with CLSes assisting me with either assigned CLS bags/satchels (those buttpacks Russian army carries all over which is copycat of actual US Army's buttpack) or if they are capable, I will be asking them to treat themselves, while I would be trying to assist those who cannot assist themselves.

 

Thus it is (kind of) realistic to see soldiers picking up others in combat.


However: 

 

Not to make Medic's role redundant in the game I believe that halving the amount of bandages carried by individual soldier should be implemented then and more bandages (ironically those are Israeli bandages in game and Insurgents do hate them) should be given to medic, to the realistic count of 10. I carried at least 20 in my medic bag.


Ultimately I believe there should be more than just Israeli bandage in game, but the actual First Aid and Medic's treatment should not look like simply as them pulling out one bandage and magically wrapping them around the holes. Rather would of been better if Offworld made random medical item shown up in the medic's or soldier's hands and applied just like the bandage, since every wound needs to be treated differently. That way it will create the illusion of being more authentic: For example if I am bandaging someone who just got shot through the chest, Hyfin seal appearing instead of the Israeli bandage would be more authentic representation, than... well the obvious magical Dressing bandage (Which is designed for Dressing wounds and not to plug them) that apparently works just like Motrin in US military being prescribed for everything and anything (for April Fool's developers should have every medic class pull out bottle of Motrin to revive and bandage soldiers).

For limb wounds CAT tourniquet.

For headshots emergency Crike or King Lt. tube or Bag valve and the mask.

Instead of medical kit, perhaps individual morphine ampules or quick clot bandages or belly bandage.

 

In either case since it is hard to implement into the game, I would simply propose for those items to appear at random as if the game assumed the casualty had those wounds. Thus the illusion that your character in game actually acts like the actual medical treatment personnel will be created.

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