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BlackDog1247

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Yes this topic has been brought up before. However, I've been reading quite a bit of topics lately, and I see one big issue. With new players in, and V11 making it harder for one squad to carry the team anymore, I feel we need a definitive commander role talk again. The way it worked in PR wasn't bad, and could be elaborated on a bit, however we had missions and goals that were set by somebody, who typically knew the game well in PR. Of course we could have a certain squad or perhaps an admin on server make a "commander" squad. However they typically get backlash from others trying to set objectives for their Squad. I feel if we get this, it would bring clear concise objectives for other Squads not in the know how.

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no

 

Squad leaders should always be top rank.

Intel = squad leader support, ranked lower than SL

 

No commanders. Intel support only.

Abilities of this intel position/vehicle/deployed asset can be identical to anything you come up with as "commander" without ruining the game.

 

Increased agro avoided. Thank me later.

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5 hours ago, suds said:

no

 

Squad leaders should always be top rank.

Intel = squad leader support, ranked lower than SL

 

No commanders. Intel support only.

Abilities of this intel position/vehicle/deployed asset can be identical to anything you come up with as "commander" without ruining the game.

 

Increased agro avoided. Thank me later.

Yep! 

 

+1 

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6 hours ago, suds said:

no

 

Squad leaders should always be top rank.

Intel = squad leader support, ranked lower than SL

 

No commanders. Intel support only.

Abilities of this intel position/vehicle/deployed asset can be identical to anything you come up with as "commander" without ruining the game.

 

Increased agro avoided. Thank me later.

too late, commander role has already been confirmed

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24 minutes ago, YuriIsLoveYuriIsLife said:

too late, commander role has already been confirmed

But not it's abilities and/or limitations ;) 

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I love your points guys, they are good ones! However maybe servers can have settings to function to set parameters like, have commander or no commander role.

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Posted (edited)

I for one hate the idea of a commander, fire/supply support role yes..commander no...   ive said it before, why have some guy thinking he is Rommel or Patton telling squads where they can and cannot go when perhaps 2 or 3 squads at the most will listen ... SLs already are able to put markers on the map and communicate with one another, a commander role does nothing to help this other than confuse it.

 

Post Scriptum has a Commander role and is a benign fire support role... it breaks down the second an SL tells you to mind your own business.... 

 

Red Orchestra I think (or something like that) has a commander role that provides intel by flying spotter planes over the battlefield which offers something a little different and useable but feels gamey as it highlights all the enemies within the planes radius on the map.. 

 

if it was a true commander role half the time he would be speaking to lawyers to give you the ok to open fire!...

Edited by embecmom

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lol @ legal :) 

 

You can have a commander. Just call it Intel service instead and all the problems go away. No one squad leads so they can have someone else tell them what to do.

 

if you want good squad leaders you can't have a commander f***ing it all up.

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Posted (edited)

As a a PR vet I would sometimes take commander roles, I simply gave Intel with the UAV (which armor crews essentially loved), occasionally asked Squads not doing much to move to a different position or take out an enemy fob I spotted, drop the JDAM and arty. JDAM drops were the best ha. I would hope it would remain that way. Along with a mutiny and mute function to kick jackwagons or mute the CO if you don't wanna acknowledge him.

Edited by BlackDog1247

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You sound like a perfect INTELLIGENCE OFFICER aka operator of the intel vehicle. 

Perhaps you are squad leader of the intel squad! Maybe your squad has access to manually piloted UAV and maybe you can access my squad leaders laser targeting device to make precision strikes occasionally or call in air support based on feedback from other squad leaders. 

All of your special abilities bar the UAV/Satellite imaging should require teamwork from another player, eg a target flare, laser designation or acceptance of a marker placed by a squad leader. No single handed decisions which allow mass destruction on a timer.

 

"Armour approaching on west squad 2. Recommend falling back to papanov to help squad 1"

Thanks for your suggestion :) I will take it into account when I decide what I will do next. 

 

"I have air support available Squad 2, please provide a target"

Thanks, I will do this because I want too. :)

 

 

Oh one other thing, youshould never be able to automatically show enemy targets on a map. If you see them via your UAV or satellite you should need to manually mark them.

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On 7/3/2018 at 2:39 PM, YuriIsLoveYuriIsLife said:

too late, commander role has already been confirmed

where?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, suds said:

You sound like a perfect INTELLIGENCE OFFICER aka operator of the intel vehicle. 

Perhaps you are squad leader of the intel squad! Maybe your squad has access to manually piloted UAV and maybe you can access my squad leaders laser targeting device to make precision strikes occasionally or call in air support based on feedback from other squad leaders. 

All of your special abilities bar the UAV/Satellite imaging should require teamwork from another player, eg a target flare, laser designation or acceptance of a marker placed by a squad leader. No single handed decisions which allow mass destruction on a timer.

 

"Armour approaching on west squad 2. Recommend falling back to papanov to help squad 1"

Thanks for your suggestion :) I will take it into account when I decide what I will do next. 

 

"I have air support available Squad 2, please provide a target"

Thanks, I will do this because I want too. :)

 

 

Oh one other thing, youshould never be able to automatically show enemy targets on a map. If you see them via your UAV or satellite you should need to manually mark them.

Manually doing that all would be awesome. That's why ArmA 3 stands out for sure. I just dont know if the dev's will have us in that sort of direction, however we are in early access and things are subject to change and or extreme change!

Edited by BlackDog1247

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On ‎2018‎-‎07‎-‎04 at 4:05 AM, embecmom said:

I for one hate the idea of a commander, fire/supply support role yes..commander no...   ive said it before, why have some guy thinking he is Rommel or Patton telling squads where they can and cannot go when perhaps 2 or 3 squads at the most will listen ... SLs already are able to put markers on the map and communicate with one another, a commander role does nothing to help this other than confuse it.

 

Post Scriptum has a Commander role and is a benign fire support role... it breaks down the second an SL tells you to mind your own business.... 

 

Red Orchestra I think (or something like that) has a commander role that provides intel by flying spotter planes over the battlefield which offers something a little different and useable but feels gamey as it highlights all the enemies within the planes radius on the map.. 

 

if it was a true commander role half the time he would be speaking to lawyers to give you the ok to open fire!...

PR had a fix for this as well: if the commander wasn't working out, other players could mutiny him out of the position.

 

The lack of inter-squad coordination is kind of ruining it in the current version, when squads work together it is really great, but without a unifying vision things can break down terribly.

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16 hours ago, Cee Colon Slash said:

PR had a fix for this as well: if the commander wasn't working out, other players could mutiny him out of the position.

 

The lack of inter-squad coordination is kind of ruining it in the current version, when squads work together it is really great, but without a unifying vision things can break down terribly.

As a "PR vet" I second this. The lack of inter-squad communication and coordination is something that just kills the game for me. Mainly due the fact that rallies are just ridiculously op but also a good commander would inspire more SL's plan and share more info about their next moves or current situation.

 

Now having played Post Scriptum for ~12 hrs only,  I've already been much closer to that PR-like feeling when you have the whole team (commander + SL's) on comms figuring out what to do and how to outsmart the enemy, while constantly sharing intel about the enemy movement, requesting fire or tank support, assigning squads with missions etc. All managed by the commander. On the other hand I've also experienced some rounds where commander is basically just setting up fire missions as requested without taking part into any kind of inter-squad coordination or such. For some reason those rounds just doesn't feel too successful.

 

In Squad communication and coordination depends heavily on SL's. After the first 15 minutes of fighting every SL has their hands so full of managing their own squad and setting up rallypoints >:( that the amount of inter-squad communication and coordination just decreases throughout the game. When you have one guy basically dedicated to sit on comms (keeps the communication going) and following the full picture of the battle, he (or she!) can notice things and come up with ideas that not every SL has time or knowledge to think of. Also it would free up some time for SL's having not to spend 5 minutes trying to figure out which squad might be able and agree to detach someone for a logistic mission for example.

 

IMO if you, as an SL have the time to keep track of what every other squad is doing and maybe planning to do, you're doing something wrong. Maybe you should be looking trough your binoculars and providing targets for your squad or mortars for example? Should you be planning your attack to the next compound? Commander is the one you can share and receive info about other squads and enemies. He's the one that should be aware of what each individual squad is doing and going to do. If he isn't, hopefully there will be the option to mutiny as mentioned earlier.

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1 hour ago, sukkiz said:

As a "PR vet" I second this. The lack of inter-squad communication and coordination is something that just kills the game for me. Mainly due the fact that rallies are just ridiculously op but also a good commander would inspire more SL's plan and share more info about their next moves or current situation.

 

Now having played Post Scriptum for ~12 hrs only,  I've already been much closer to that PR-like feeling when you have the whole team (commander + SL's) on comms figuring out what to do and how to outsmart the enemy, while constantly sharing intel about the enemy movement, requesting fire or tank support, assigning squads with missions etc. All managed by the commander. On the other hand I've also experienced some rounds where commander is basically just setting up fire missions as requested without taking part into any kind of inter-squad coordination or such. For some reason those rounds just doesn't feel too successful.

 

In Squad communication and coordination depends heavily on SL's. After the first 15 minutes of fighting every SL has their hands so full of managing their own squad and setting up rallypoints >:( that the amount of inter-squad communication and coordination just decreases throughout the game. When you have one guy basically dedicated to sit on comms (keeps the communication going) and following the full picture of the battle, he (or she!) can notice things and come up with ideas that not every SL has time or knowledge to think of. Also it would free up some time for SL's having not to spend 5 minutes trying to figure out which squad might be able and agree to detach someone for a logistic mission for example.

 

IMO if you, as an SL have the time to keep track of what every other squad is doing and maybe planning to do, you're doing something wrong. Maybe you should be looking trough your binoculars and providing targets for your squad or mortars for example? Should you be planning your attack to the next compound? Commander is the one you can share and receive info about other squads and enemies. He's the one that should be aware of what each individual squad is doing and going to do. If he isn't, hopefully there will be the option to mutiny as mentioned earlier.

I gotta disagree, I played PS for about 40 odd hours and the co-ordination is dreadful, as an SL trying to keep your squad together is impossible and the lack of anything tangible for your squad to need to stick with the SL just makes the job harder.   

 

Agree rallies are op but the MSPs in PS are just horrible atm, the devs refuse to lock them to SL authorised only and this means you can have one troll kill the whole momentum by driving off in the MSP.   Couple this with having a locked logistics unit that decides to build a superfob rather than supplies where needed and the game is all but lost. 

 

In squad the SL is a glorified spawn point but its one reason players stick with him / her in PS they spawn on the available MSP and if thats miles away then you lose co-ordination of your own squad.

 

The commander role can point out where there are gaps in the line, suggest someone stay on defense and offer air support/arty but beyond that there is little for them to do, and even less if only one squad cares.

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Posted (edited)

Commander could give tasks to SL's just like in bf2.

 

When squad has completed the task (go to this point, defend this, attack this, setup fob here, etc...) the squad gets scoreboard points and perhaps an extra resource to use. Perhaps the extra resource could be an added armor/gun on their vehicle, an upgrade from open top MRAP to CROW MRAP, a supply drop at their discretion for ammo/bandages...wtv...

 

#incentives 

 

 

Edited by CptDirty
bf2 commander was a good solid foundation for the potential role it has in squad. Considering PR wouldn't exist if it wasn't for BF2 then there's no reason to reinvent the wheel. It worked then it could work now, just make bf2's commander fit into SQUAD

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In the other 40 or so threads here about the "Commander" role I've always made the same point that without the ability to demote and promote SL's the class would be powerless and pointless.

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Posted (edited)

we need somebody to tell the stupid vehicle squads where to go or just prevent access to heavy vehicles, on an Al Basrah layer with British invading against Insurgents it's impossible to win because you get "Warrior" squads that lose a ton of vehicles, Im usually for vehicle squads, but on some maps using vehicles is just a waste of tickets. Just had a game where 2 guys lost 6 Warriors, we cleared the bridge for him tho as I had noticed we were losing warriors like crazy but thought it was multiple people not just 2 until we had to take a logi from main cuz we capped village and were needing a fob in the city, we went to refinery and got engaged and the warrior that had been behind us just DROVE AWAY and left us, then went straight into the city and kept driving and hit a mine. Idk, I think heavy vehicles shouldnt even be allowed on Al Basrah for ANY layer, constantly hitting mines on the bridge and getting IED biked. It's not worth 25 tickets. Surely isnt worth 150 tickets either. None of them play as a team and actually cover a squad, they just go for convenient kills on dumb players that arent causing us to lose anyway

Edited by NelsonH

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If nothing else, a commander role would be useful to moderate/reduce inter-SL chat. The commander could pass on relevant intel to the relevant squads. It would also save a lot of stupid arguments and squads actively ignoring each other and just following their own objectives without considering the impact on the team and match as a whole.

 

Some of the best squads I have seen end up really letting the team down because they know best, which they often do, but they actually end up leaving other squads eating their dust and get surprised when their rush is broken down by other squads not being as on the ball as them. Commander would really help mitigate this disconnect between squads of different experience and skill levels.

 

I am glad it is being included as a role. In PR a good commander could easily turn a loss into a win just by having a handle on the bigger picture. Can point out to the better squads that they are leaving a huge defensive weakness behind them by ignoring the lesser abilities of the other squads. I see this ruin a match so often. Would also help stop squads yelling at each other for doing their own thing and ignoring the rest of the team.

Edited by Llamageddon

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Seeing as we have two simultaneous commander threads and it's obviously confusing to the newcommers, I'm going to go ahead and lock this one in favor of the other, which has been going on for much longer and seems more active. It also contains most of what has already been discussed here.

 

You can check out the older commander thread here:

 

Please at least skim the whole thing before posting, it helps us avoid going in endless circles and talking about the same thing over and over again.

 

/locked

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