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Former PR dev's brilliant solution to Post Scriptum's gameplay/flow/spawn issues

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It was posted in the /r/postscriptum subreddit but such a system could work in Squad as well, I think, because the layers are customizable and don't necessarily have to emphasize a WW2-style frontline in the same way. It's a long one, but it's well worth the read:

 

 

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Nice! Just saw it on discord... wanted to post it too. Good find!

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Squad must have less front line style WW2. They are different eras and modern war is fought with "smaller" units coordinated with each other. In Squad I love the possibility of attacking a flag from 3 different points with 3 different teams at the same time. Having only a front line to build Fob and Rally, you risk making the attack less tactical and less imaginative.

However, a good idea, although I believe I can be more effective and realistic in PS set in WW2

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all good points and a well presented case but I think it will lead to the predictable and repetitive games he describes and wants to avoid.

 

I think the same can be achieved by requiring a minimum distance from a FOB to place a rally and a minimum distance from a FOB to place a new FOB. keeping a chain to the base or some other strategic point defined by the map designer.

 

The chain could require any or all of:

  • a full connection to the main base
  • no main base connection but a minimum number of FOBs in the chain to allow placement of new FOBs (to allow for chains being broken a long way from the action).
  • a level of supplies within the chain before a new fob can be added.
  • a level of supplies to allow rally points to be placed with the extended FOB range.

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29 minutes ago, suds said:

all good points and a well presented case but I think it will lead to the predictable and repetitive games he describes and wants to avoid.

 

I think the same can be achieved by requiring a minimum distance from a FOB to place a rally and a minimum distance from a FOB to place a new FOB. keeping a chain to the base or some other strategic point defined by the map designer.

 

The chain could require any or all of:

  • a full connection to the main base
  • no main base connection but a minimum number of FOBs in the chain to allow placement of new FOBs (to allow for chains being broken a long way from the action).
  • a level of supplies within the chain before a new fob can be added.
  • a level of supplies to allow rally points to be placed with the extended FOB range.

I agree there should be some kind of mechanic simulation a supply line back to main. I dont like the idea of one player having to drive a logi back and forth. But something is needed.

 

I still you should be able to place rallies everywere. But they should disapeer eiter after 1-2 minutes or if SL leaves a 50 m radius. So they are used to rally squad and not a secondary spawn. 

 

I really hope the new teritory control gamemode makes it so that you can only place fobs in hexagons you control with a unbroken line back to main. If the line then later gets broken spawntime should increase on said FOB.

 

 

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All i really want is main bases becoming much more important. In pr we would often spawn at main to grab a new transport truck with the squad and go at the enemy from new angles. This is the main thing i currently miss in Squad, that and transport squads.

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Interesting...grand operations coming in bf5...lets you battle over days so to speak and you have objectives to take out first day and if you fail to take them out it makes it more difficult on second day and if taken out makes it easier, atleast that's what Im concieving from what I heard and seen about it so far.  So, there are objectives like flak guns, artillery, bunkers, assets that CAN'T get replaced...once they get taken out.  These are the kinds of objectives map designers should consider and locate on maps for teams to fight over, or let team commanders place on map at beginning of match. The terrain and roads should be considered for attacking team and defenders should set up barrier s based on terrain and defending assets.  Territory control is all good but what can you place in your territory that can be a defensive asset that the enemy can take out and you don't get it back?  And therefore weakens you and this is more like how war happens.  I think.

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8 hours ago, Guan_Yu007 said:

All i really want is main bases becoming much more important. In pr we would often spawn at main to grab a new transport truck with the squad and go at the enemy from new angles. This is the main thing i currently miss in Squad, that and transport squads.

I dont know what kind of servers you play on, but this happens in every match i join.

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On 6/15/2018 at 5:21 PM, Sgt. Veld said:

I dont know what kind of servers you play on, but this happens in every match i join.

I don't see this in pub matches very often because vehicles are often just dumped across the map or flipped on a bush.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Sparcany said:

I don't see this in pub matches very often because vehicles are often just dumped across the map or flipped on a bush.

Basically this. It's because there are no transport squads. Infantry squadleaders want all their players into the action (which is obvious) so there is no way for them to get the transport truck back to their main base for it to be used again. This atm is one of the larger issues that Squad has gameplay-wise.

 

I'm sure it will become somewhat better once helicopters are in (i don't see them dumping helicopters on random parts of the map).

Edited by Guan_Yu007

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1 hour ago, Guan_Yu007 said:

Basically this. It's because there are no transport squads. Infantry squadleaders want all their players into the action (which is obvious) so there is no way for them to get the transport truck back to their main base for it to be used again. This atm is one of the larger issues that Squad has gameplay-wise.

 

I'm sure it will become somewhat better once helicopters are in (i don't see them dumping helicopters on random parts of the map).

I think helicopters will be dumped all over the map if the pilot kit isn't approached properly. People  dump helis, jets, etc in BF and Arma all the time.

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On 6/17/2018 at 12:48 PM, Guan_Yu007 said:

Basically this. It's because there are no transport squads. Infantry squadleaders want all their players into the action (which is obvious) so there is no way for them to get the transport truck back to their main base for it to be used again. This atm is one of the larger issues that Squad has gameplay-wise.

 

I'm sure it will become somewhat better once helicopters are in (i don't see them dumping helicopters on random parts of the map).

One way to help incentivize returning tansports and logis to base is to give the driver a free spawn instead of a spawn penalty. 

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Maybe the truck can drive itself back to base by using a NPC again just like an NPC doing tank loader position?

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1 hour ago, CptDirty said:

TL;DR: Territory Control > AAS and it's variations in layers? 

Not quite. It would still be AAS except these "flags" have an area of dominance similar to territory controll. In this area on the map the team that holds it is able to build stuff.

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I generally like this, but as some have already said I would worry about too many limitations on forward spawn locations.  Part of what makes "Squad" Squad is the diversity in choice in attacking capture points.  Good map design has ways of limiting directions that a enemy can pose a threat and doesn't need to resort to artificial limitations.

 

That said, I do still like the idea but perhaps not as strict as proposed in the OP's post.  Such a system I believe should add increased depth to the game but not be seemingly arbitrary.  As such I think couching the system as part of a larger "Command and Control" system would be a good idea.  

Instead of having uniquely drawn territory control zones as proposed, each capture point provides a circular command area that can be changed in size according the the map designers intent.  Since the control area is a circle, the area a FOB or Rally can be placed reduces the further from the center you go, or essentially the closer to a not owned capture point.  In effect, the closer you get to a not owned capture point the more clustered FOB/Rally points become, focusing team effort.   None the less squads are still free to place rally points further away but in less clustered areas.

 

I would also like to propose the addition of two things - a command and control vehicle that acts as a movable command zone not tied to a specific capture point, but that has a smaller command zone radius.  This vehicle (or even a squad deployable?) can of course be destroyed and hunted down by the opposing force.  This gives the opposing force a additional target to hunt down, increasing gameplay diversity, and adds meaningfull depth to strategy by still allowing flanking from established non-capture point areas.  In addition this introduces the possibility of some sort of electronic warfare system, where you can deploy a vehicle, similiar to a command and control vehicle, that has the opposite effect.  Any opposing force FOB or Rally can not be used if it falls within the area affected by electronic warfare/jamming.   Electronic warfare is a threat on the modern battlefield and should be portrayed in some way imo.  I do realize however that the current maps may not be big enough to warrant this sort of system.1400_002.png

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I think territory control is the way to go.  Post Scriptum has tried to stop the steam rolling/flag jumping effect by putting a timer on the next flag but its worse than ever because they coupled it with MSPs and defenders not being able to build fobs near or on flags.   So the attacking faction just floods the next flag waiting for the timer to expire whilst the defender struggles to catch up as they have no spawns as they are either destroyed or left on the previous flag (msps) and no fobs..

 

 i dont like the sound of forcing a contact point but guess its required if you dont have flags or knowing where MSPS may probably be placed and hunting them, for me this is one of the issues with the Squad maps right now, its remarkably easy to find fobs / radios because of the predictability of the maps.  You wont place a radio on the side you expect contact from i.e the side the enemy are going to move into your flag, and 99% of the time it gets placed en route from main or on the flag so once you see where the enemy are running from beeline it.

 

Personally hate the idea of MSPs because of PS,  BUT think they might be a better idea for the insurgent/militia factions to provide better movement and would not restrict them to 'captured' areas.    This allows for a more fluid Guerrilla style attack from the factions that should be doing that. 

 

Perhaps a vehicle field truck that is mobile but has to be unpacked and built COH style (the original not the poor second one)

 

but back on point, squad has the issue that is highlighted by the OP that the focus for attack and defend is the flags, there are no important points of contact other than those  where you might run into a flanking enemy or fob.    You never get a sense of clearing out an area and moving in and controlling it (the flag of course) i.e important crossroads or hill /bunkers etc the focus is always the flag and thus both predictable for the enemy and a feeling like your throwing yourself WW1 style against the defenders.    A zone of control and resistance is interesting and I think much more fluid it also gives SLs a better feeling of picking a spot they think may be strategically important vs always having to be sitting on a flag.. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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