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pigsoup

Current Map Problems

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I think I first got into Squad during v6 I believe... before the vehicles got introduced. The developers have made huge steps since then.

 

The new maps got gradually introduced as vehicles were introduced but it is almost as though most maps added even after v7 feels like they are treating vehicular gameplay as secondary needs that have to be fulfilled. The obvious exception is YEHORIVKA. I will use that map's design features as I understand them to express my feeling of how maps should be designed as:

 

  • Relatively flat to allow more freedom to vehicular movement by not punishing offroad ventures. 
  • Open spaces for long-range vehicle support for infantry or vehicle to vehicle combat (instead of practically running into each other in maps like FOOLS ROAD.)
  • Infantry preferred combat zones (cluster of buildings where vehicles are more of a burden within)

 

YEHORIVKA allows vehicles to breathe free but is not dominated by vehicle dominance because it balances out with flag points that are within towns where infantry reins supreme. Also, the map is huge! Feels almost too big until you try to sneak a whole squad in your transport truck or BTR behind enemy lines at which point you realise all these "dead spaces" at the edges of the maps are actually there for a reason. (GORODOK is another good example)

 

 

But then there are all the other maps... Ones that were in before vehicles like SUMARI and LOGAR VALLEY are just way too small for vehicles, understandably. I believe CHORA was in before v7 and it's design reflects that. Every single area of the map, it is filled with infantry scaled covers that god forbid if two enemy squads run into each other, it won't be a bloodbath on a flat terrain with no cover around - completely infantry-centric map design logic.

 

The worst part is that even newest maps that were added have this design logic behind whether intentionally or not: BELAYA, NARVA, KAMDESH HIGHLANDS, MESTIA, and an older map, KOHAT TOI and FOOL'S ROAD. Vehicles are punished above and beyond for going offroad due to just how rocky and hilly every part of the map is (KAMDESH, MESTIA, KOHAT). In NARVA and BELAYA, I believe you cannot really go 'offroad' and the map is too small to actually maneuver, map-wide tactically. In these maps, the only reasonable role for these vehicles is to literally stick to an infantry squad and support them. I know that is the realistic role but come on man, a vehicle to vehicle combat in this game is horrible due to how the maps do not support vehicular maneuvers at all. 

 

This also creates a second problem which I believe is complete lack of need for a dedicated transport squad. The maps do not embrace vehicles - they are afraid to be too big, they are afraid to have an open field that will frustrate infantry moving on foot. I remember in PR, if your SL did not like any of the spawn points, there would be a dedicated transport squad which will drive the squad to a preferred location. And SLs would request a pick up after capturing a point or removing enemy FOB on remote parts of the map. I think the need for this squad has to be fulfilled - it will lessen HAB beehive phenomenon and it just encourages bigger strategical and tactical movements around the map.  I never see a dedicated transport squad even in YEHORIVKA or GORODOK so it is partly due to the playerbase not realising the potential but I believe the biggest factor why people think it is not needed is because the vast majority of maps either outright punishes offroad or just not big enough to create a need for the squad. 

 

 

TLDR; The vast majority of the maps in current map pools are too small and/or excessively hilly which prevents more tactical and strategical usage of combat vehicles and transport trucks. I believe the developers should 'gamble' with maps that are so big that you need transport squads and APCs should ferry around troops from point to point for the team to fight effectively.

 

Obviously not in all maps. Some maps can have harsh conditions for vehicular gameplay almost as a feature... but not most of the maps. 

Edited by pigsoup

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Gorodock in some of the old layers...

 

Drive or quit. Walking is not an option.

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11 hours ago, pigsoup said:

I think I first got into Squad during v6 I believe... before the vehicles got introduced. The developers have made huge steps since then.

 

The new maps got gradually introduced as vehicles were introduced but it is almost as though most maps added even after v7 feels like they are treating vehicular gameplay as secondary needs that have to be fulfilled. The obvious exception is YEHORIVKA. I will use that map's design features as I understand them to express my feeling of how maps should be designed as:

 

  • Relatively flat to allow more freedom to vehicular movement by not punishing offroad ventures. 
  • Open spaces for long-range vehicle support for infantry or vehicle to vehicle combat (instead of practically running into each other in maps like FOOLS ROAD.)
  • Infantry preferred combat zones (cluster of buildings where vehicles are more of a burden within)

 

YEHORIVKA allows vehicles to breathe free but is not dominated by vehicle dominance because it balances out with flag points that are within towns where infantry reins supreme. Also, the map is huge! Feels almost too big until you try to sneak a whole squad in your transport truck or BTR behind enemy lines at which point you realise all these "dead spaces" at the edges of the maps are actually there for a reason. (GORODOK is another good example)

 

 

But then there are all the other maps... Ones that were in before vehicles like SUMARI and LOGAR VALLEY are just way too small for vehicles, understandably. I believe CHORA was in before v7 and it's design reflects that. Every single area of the map, it is filled with infantry scaled covers that god forbid if two enemy squads run into each other, it won't be a bloodbath on a flat terrain with no cover around - completely infantry-centric map design logic.

 

The worst part is that even newest maps that were added have this design logic behind whether intentionally or not: BELAYA, NARVA, KAMDESH HIGHLANDS, MESTIA, and an older map, KOHAT TOI and FOOL'S ROAD. Vehicles are punished above and beyond for going offroad due to just how rocky and hilly every part of the map is (KAMDESH, MESTIA, KOHAT). In NARVA and BELAYA, I believe you cannot really go 'offroad' and the map is too small to actually maneuver, map-wide tactically. In these maps, the only reasonable role for these vehicles is to literally stick to an infantry squad and support them. I know that is the realistic role but come on man, a vehicle to vehicle combat in this game is horrible due to how the maps do not support vehicular maneuvers at all. 

 

This also creates a second problem which I believe is complete lack of need for a dedicated transport squad. The maps do not embrace vehicles - they are afraid to be too big, they are afraid to have an open field that will frustrate infantry moving on foot. I remember in PR, if your SL did not like any of the spawn points, there would be a dedicated transport squad which will drive the squad to a preferred location. And SLs would request a pick up after capturing a point or removing enemy FOB on remote parts of the map. I think the need for this squad has to be fulfilled - it will lessen HAB beehive phenomenon and it just encourages bigger strategical and tactical movements around the map.  I never see a dedicated transport squad even in YEHORIVKA or GORODOK so it is partly due to the playerbase not realising the potential but I believe the biggest factor why people think it is not needed is because the vast majority of maps either outright punishes offroad or just not big enough to create a need for the squad. 

 

 

TLDR; The vast majority of the maps in current map pools are too small and/or excessively hilly which prevents more tactical and strategical usage of combat vehicles and transport trucks. I believe the developers should 'gamble' with maps that are so big that you need transport squads and APCs should ferry around troops from point to point for the team to fight effectively.

 

Obviously not in all maps. Some maps can have harsh conditions for vehicular gameplay almost as a feature... but not most of the maps. 

Squad maps in general simulate challenges vehicles would face in real world conditions. I myself appreciate that. Both Chora and Sumari have room for future expansion that would enchance vehicular gameplay.

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There will be some vehicle focused maps coming in the future.

 

I agree that the smaller maps (OPfl, logar, Sumari, kokan, fools road, mestia) are not very useful for vehicles, designed mostly for infantry.

 

I also agree there needs to be more inclusion /rewards for transportation squads and convoys. As you mentioned, it's partially a player behaviour problem but also a design problem, and map design is one part of that puzzle.

 

I think Kohat and Kamdesh were intentionally made to have very harsh off road conditions, as to slow down vehicles and showcase authentic ruggedness of certain Afghanistan regions

 

Thanks for the feedback, we are working on addressing this issue with vehicle transportation!!

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Totally agree with pigsoup. In fact, the maps that give me the most satisfaction are Gorodok and Yeho, for the synergy that is created between vehicles, troop transport and infantry.

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