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graphic settings are getting abused hard

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IMO the only situation where this really counts is in competitive games, we already play to tournament settings which is shadows medium and view distance high (from memory) as min settings. (I'm sure this could be re-visited and improved upon).

 

PC gaming has always been like this, of course the dev's will optimise the game as best they can over time. It needs to be playable for the vast majority of the market otherwise their potential customer base shrinks drastically.

Squad is a demanding, modern title in development so players need to understand that re the system they use and FPS expectations. 

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Posted (edited)

Honestly I don't know why this should be so difficult to solce actually. If they could have vegetation, albeit ugly as hell, that you could hide behind in operation Flashpoint from like 2001 or something they obviously can do it in Squad at low settings in 2018!

 

Most people here look at the problem in the wrong direction however. It is not about forcing people to buy expensive hardware (for obvious reasons not a good idea) but instead to lower the advantages that are gained on lower settings. I mean, for all I care introduce some cheap random pixel noise among the foliage when shadows are off! How hard can it be really? It is already ugly so if people want nice then go buy the hardware. If they want playable on low-end, then accept the artificial noise introduced to reduce advantages gained from shadows off! The problem has been solved well in other games. It is solvable. 

 

Devs should prioritize this. It is truly annoying I agree!

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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I tried putting down shadows and stuff low and I also became a killing machine instantly! From thinking it was a hard game to thinking it was easy just depending one a few settings. Honesty this is much worse than I thought and had to be fixed immediately!!! 

 

If I turn off shadows then game is so much brighter it is insane. I usually died/killed like 50/50, now I die/kill 10/90 or something. Situation is really bad actually! The feeling you always had with high setting is that concealment isn't really concealment at all. This is a very bad feeling! And not just a feeling sadly. 

 

Fix it this way: Make visibility worse somehow when on low settings. Also brightness stuff shouldn't change that much with shadows iff, that is crazy. 

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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@OP are you a reddit user? This thread could have come straight out of reddit. Reminds me of the good ol` R6:Siege "I`m only bad at siege cuz Bandit and Jaeger have acog and I HATE USING ACOGS. Muuuuh spawnrape how dare you expect me to pay attention".

- Obviously this here is different though, dont mind my rage. Im still mad. ****ing reddit/social media and its users.

 

Also, i dont see any problems. Not playing on super low and i can see everyone just fine (theres a setting/fps thread if you want to know exact settings). Especially putting the Shadows on low makes the game look horrible and bland, not in a million years i would use that for 3-4 more kills.

 

And im not so sure what you mean about being a killing machine but im averaging at around 20+ kills every round (infantry). That being said I doubt one can be an actual killing machine in this game, you would have to wipe squad after squad after squad which is not going to happen.

 

However, i agree about Anti-Aliasing but thats due to the TAA/FXAA which makes the game look very blurry. Thats the case with every game though which is why a lot of people dont use AA at all.

 

 

 

TL:DR i dont feel like being at a disadvantage, may be i am slightly but i surely dont want this to have any sort of priority.

 

Edit:

 

Can someone make Screenshots with some guy sitting in a THICC bush with different graphic settings? May be im completely wrong, would be interesting to see. Especially since i dont really know how the game looks when you apply the epic preset, post-processing wise.

 

Edited by Chew_Kok_Long

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52 minutes ago, Chew_Kok_Long said:

@OP are you a reddit user? This thread could have come straight out of reddit. Reminds me of the good ol` R6:Siege "I`m only bad at siege cuz Bandit and Jaeger have acog and I HATE USING ACOGS. Muuuuh spawnrape how dare you expect me to pay attention".

- Obviously this here is different though, dont mind my rage. Im still mad. ****ing reddit/social media and its users.

 

Also, i dont see any problems. Not playing on super low and i can see everyone just fine (theres a setting/fps thread if you want to know exact settings). Especially putting the Shadows on low makes the game look horrible and bland, not in a million years i would use that for 3-4 more kills.

 

And im not so sure what you mean about being a killing machine but im averaging at around 20+ kills every round (infantry). That being said I doubt one can be an actual killing machine in this game, you would have to wipe squad after squad after squad which is not going to happen.

 

However, i agree about Anti-Aliasing but thats due to the TAA/FXAA which makes the game look very blurry. Thats the case with every game though which is why a lot of people dont use AA at all.

 

 

 

TL:DR i dont feel like being at a disadvantage, may be i am slightly but i surely dont want this to have any sort of priority.

 

Edit:

 

Can someone make Screenshots with some guy sitting in a THICC bush with different graphic settings? May be im completely wrong, would be interesting to see. Especially since i dont really know how the game looks when you apply the epic preset, post-processing wise.

 

Well maybe you should play on super high before complaining it is not a problem. It is a real problem. Maybe not for you for some reason but a lot of other people. Only thing I can say is kills went up factor 3 and deaths went down factor 3 for me with settings for optimum visibility. Starting from epic everything on. The problem can be fixed easily and should take priority.

 

Why you have to define killing machine as squad after squad is just ridiculous. I am comparing my performance with my performance at other settings and has nothing to do with me being better or worse compared to other players. 

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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So now were from super low graphics being a problem to "everything but super high is a problem".

I see where this is going. Also btw, i have shadows on high and ambient occlusion enabled cuz it looks so much nicer.

 

Dont know, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!make pictures and lets compare them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Apparently its a real issue for you, i think taking some time to make screenshots so we can compare them altogether would be worth your time.

 

Obviously youll do worse in an fps game if you crank the settings up all the way, even a 1080ti wont give you 150 fps with everyting maxed. Low fps = bad shooting performance due to input lagg etc.

I even feel like higher settings give you better visibility since the soldiers will always tend to glow a little brighter than their dark surroundings, something that you lack without shadows and AO. Without it everything has the exact same color to me. I just see things with contrast faster than things with little to no contrast. Something is telling me everyone does that, but may be im wrong about the glowing thing so lets see pics, shall we?

 

Also i certainly do not believe this gives you a three times better performance increase (except you have 25 fps on epic and 150+ on low)... Low graphics wont turn you from literally blind into a god. Slighty yeah for sure but not that much. I see a little exaggerating but its okay, Sir.

May be youve become better or just had a really nice round?

 

Edit: Remember folks kills dont matter anyway! Am i right? No?

Edited by Chew_Kok_Long

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1 hour ago, Chew_Kok_Long said:

So now were from super low graphics being a problem to "everything but super high is a problem".

I see where this is going. Also btw, i have shadows on high and ambient occlusion enabled cuz it looks so much nicer.

 

Dont know, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!make pictures and lets compare them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Apparently its a real issue for you, i think taking some time to make screenshots so we can compare them altogether would be worth your time.

 

Obviously youll do worse in an fps game if you crank the settings up all the way, even a 1080ti wont give you 150 fps with everyting maxed. Low fps = bad shooting performance due to input lagg etc.

I even feel like higher settings give you better visibility since the soldiers will always tend to glow a little brighter than their dark surroundings, something that you lack without shadows and AO. Without it everything has the exact same color to me. I just see things with contrast faster than things with little to no contrast. Something is telling me everyone does that, but may be im wrong about the glowing thing so lets see pics, shall we?

 

Also i certainly do not believe this gives you a three times better performance increase (except you have 25 fps on epic and 150+ on low)... Low graphics wont turn you from literally blind into a god. Slighty yeah for sure but not that much. I see a little exaggerating but its okay, Sir.

May be youve become better or just had a really nice round?

 

Edit: Remember folks kills dont matter anyway! Am i right? No?

I wouldn't know about everything but super high being a problem because I never tested it on all  settings permutations possible. I used to play woth everything on, and on epic except supersampling. Problem is that if there is just one setting permutation that is way better than either one else than that will be beneficial in an unjuste sense to those who select it. 

 

I don't have problem shooting people once I see them so I don't buy into input lag story. Regarding screen shots you can do it yourself. Go into the fields of gorodok and turn shadows off and foilage low and maybe some other stuff. Look into the threads. Game goes from like really dark to a summer day. 

 

Could it be I had exceptionally good ping for a the last rounds? Possibly but highly unlikely. Know for a fact I am not a better player. True game is uglier but it's fun instead.

 

Of course kills matter. It's the whole point of the game. To defeat the other team so you can take the flags which would not be possible otherwise. 

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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On 6/19/2018 at 1:48 PM, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

I mean, for all I care introduce some cheap random pixel noise among the foliage when shadows are off!

Please do you have links where you can aquire this "cheap random pixel noise" for Unreal Engine?

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1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Please do you have links where you can aquire this "cheap random pixel noise" for Unreal Engine?

Sorry no. I don't know anything much about UE itself

It was just a suggestion hinting at reversing the problem; instead of making visibility better on best setting, make it worse on the low settings. You can always somehow make a video game look worse right? 

 

Other ideas might include increasing the amount of ugly foliage on low settings or something else. There is a way right? That doesn't mean I know which ways is the best. Only that it it should be possible. Suppose there is some post-processing on UE? Don't know how flexible it is, but in theory, in programming you should be able to do anything. Rewrite small parts of the open-source engine if need be. But that might be hard though. I don't know. Don't underestimate the devs though. It is hard to develop squad to begin with. 

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13 hours ago, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

I tried putting down shadows and stuff low and I also became a killing machine instantly! From thinking it was a hard game to thinking it was easy just depending one a few settings. Honesty this is much worse than I thought and had to be fixed immediately!!! 

 

If I turn off shadows then game is so much brighter it is insane. I usually died/killed like 50/50, now I die/kill 10/90 or something. Situation is really bad actually! The feeling you always had with high setting is that concealment isn't really concealment at all. This is a very bad feeling! And not just a feeling sadly. 

 

Fix it this way: Make visibility worse somehow when on low settings. Also brightness stuff shouldn't change that much with shadows iff, that is crazy. 


It makes playing maps like OP First Light and Fools Road boring, when you get constantly killed with accurate shots over long distances while you are hiding behind or in bushes till you find out why. Something MUST be done ASAP!
Exactly the same issue killed the game Verdun for many.

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10 hours ago, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

It was just a suggestion hinting at reversing the problem;

In one sentence what exactly do you feel is the "problem"? Just curious...

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5 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

In one sentence what exactly do you feel is the "problem"? Just curious...

@[CoH]Domsch said it. You don't trust concealment on high settings. What exactly is the true cause I am not sure, but if you play a map like Gorodok and turn shadows off for example then the map suddenly becomes extremely bright. This huge light difference in itself is troublesome. I also find it strange to even allow shadows to be turned off (low looks like off to me). Cheap shadows can't be that expensive actually regarding the fact that Battlefield 2 had some half ugly pixelated shadows already more than 10 years ago playing on an ancient machine. A thorough investigation needs to be done by the devs. Evaluating players standing and running at many different spots on all kinds of maps. Trying to pinpoint the exact cause and how it can be fixed. If they come up with nothing I will have to accept that as a fact. But at least the big brightness difference should be fixed. Maybe it is as easy as lowering the contrast between players and ground/foliage when on low settings...? 

 

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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it is very sad that this is still a problem.

i have mid level settings because of an old system and had assumed the settings exploits would be resolved soon so it would be best to get the most experience with all the disadvantages of nice looking pictures.

 

Earlier I suggested disabling low settings for systems which are capable of higher. there was a positive dev response to this but I am not sure what the timeframe is.

 

i'm going to test as well. Post screenshots @SpecialAgentJohnson

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In a perfect NASCAR world there would be a single spec for gaming PC's and everyone would have exactly the same monitor, keyboard and mouse. In accordance there wouldn't need to be variable graphics settings.

 

That world doesn't exist though and the quality of your equipment matters. The rationale here is similar to the evolution of the American school system where special needs and low I.Q. children are added to the regular classes and everyone is graded on the curve.

 

I mean where does this end? We should be striving for greatness, not adding "cheap random pixel noise". As it stands I've got a massively huge monitor and I can see you better anywhere the game allows simply based on the fact that everything is much larger plus I set my fov zoomed in. How is that wrong?

 

This is like faulting the factory Kawasaki rider Eli Tomac for having a $20,000 balanced and bluprinted engine and also shaving off 20 lbs. from his bike with exotic alloys.

 

 

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The only way to ensure every Squad player is running the same settings is to force a higher minimum system spec and standardized graphical settings on everyone just like consoles. Those who don't meet the minimum specs won't play the game until they upgrade their system to meet the revised "forced" minimum requirement. I'm sure a lot of people will be VERY happy about this.

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57 minutes ago, CptDirty said:

The only way to ensure every Squad player is running the same settings is to force a higher minimum system spec and standardized graphical settings on everyone just like consoles. Those who don't meet the minimum specs won't play the game until they upgrade their system to meet the revised "forced" minimum requirement. I'm sure a lot of people will be VERY happy about this.

I disagree with this but also previous post.

 

We are not comparing different rigs at all. We are comparing different settings on the same rig trying to make them as competitively similar as possible. I also like when things look nice but not if I have to sacrifice gameplay enjoyment. So effectively for me, the way it is, things will look worse now since I will play on low.

 

Obviously if your kawasaki dude gets in a competition against your crappy moped you wouldn't think it was fun, right? @Zylfrax791. Only if you had the kawasaki. We should strive for good gameplay I think

Things maybe also don't have to look worse, only different. 

 

Of course there will always be small differences in visibility/competetivness but it is absolute vital that they are kept as small as possible as to not disencourage certain players. Maybe most importantly concealment should really feel like concealment. 

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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1 minute ago, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

I disagree with this

Why? Just to reiterate:

 

The problem presented in this thread is that players with high end rigs lower their graphical settings to gain an advantage. I can only see 2 possibilities to "fix" this issue:

 

1) Keep it how it is now and allow players to choose their graphical settings. If they want to lower it to gain an edge or increase it to gain effects, it's all up to the user to choose.

 

2) Force a minimum on everyone which will prevent those honest players with low end rigs from playing. Basically punish the majority of honest users playing on low all because of a minority that does it to gain an advantage. 

 

When I said:

1 hour ago, CptDirty said:

I'm sure a lot of people will be VERY happy about this

I was being sarcastic.

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20 minutes ago, CptDirty said:

Why? Just to reiterate:

 

The problem presented in this thread is that players with high end rigs lower their graphical settings to gain an advantage. I can only see 2 possibilities to "fix" this issue:

 

1) Keep it how it is now and allow players to choose their graphical settings. If they want to lower it to gain an edge or increase it to gain effects, it's all up to the user to choose.

 

2) Force a minimum on everyone which will prevent those honest players with low end rigs from playing. Basically punish the majority of honest users playing on low all because of a minority that does it to gain an advantage. 

 

When I said:

I was being sarcastic.

No. 

1) Shouldn't be possible to a great extent. 

2) Obviously noone wants this. 

 

1) Is fixable and should be fixed. It is not reasonable that game should differ that much.

 

What if we exaggerate the problem: Imagine that there are very big differences in visibility between one setting and another. Do you still really feel that that is reasonable?? Now imagine that those differences are real right now. Why shouldn't they be fixed when they can be? There is a point where the differences are too big, right?

 

Differences are too big. 

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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This has been a problem on nearly every modern game that requires you to spot your enemy. And I've never seen a good solution. Heck, I don't remember seeing A solution.

 

Shadows are one of the most resource intensive features, and one of the most important for spotting, so this is a very, VERY hard problem to solve. I don't think some of you guys appreciate that.

 

The problem is also compounded by the fact UE4 is shit. It's way too heavy for what it is.

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4 minutes ago, Vegetal said:

This has been a problem on nearly every modern game that requires you to spot your enemy. And I've never seen a good solution. Heck, I don't remember seeing A solution.

 

Shadows are one of the most resource intensive features, and one of the most important for spotting, so this is a very, VERY hard problem to solve. I don't think some of you guys appreciate that.

 

The problem is also compounded by the fact UE4 is shit. It's way too heavy for what it is.

There were shadows in Battlefield 2 as well. They don't have to look good though.

 

Solution doesn't have to be and can't be perfect but problem must be minimized. 

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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I think that for the very cheap effects (if there are any, and I wouldn't know which): Say that lens flare and eye adaption affect the gpu by like 0.1% and 0.5% each (this is just an example) then they should not be able to be disabled at all because they don't really affect the fps for low-end rigs at any appreciatable effect anyway. There is absolutely no reason to let them be turned off if you think about it. Only thing letting people turn them off contributes is one more differences to worry about. Obviously if you look into the sun and don't have a lens flare then you see better right? 

 

For the medium to expensive effect things are very different however and they must be able to be manipulated of course. That is because they truly affect the fps. 

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@SpecialAgentJohnson Not sure what you're on about, but I'm with @Vegetal on this one:

38 minutes ago, Vegetal said:

This has been a problem on nearly every modern game that requires you to spot your enemy. And I've never seen a good solution. Heck, I don't remember seeing A solution.

The only unpopular solution to this would be to remove graphical setting options and standardize it all for everyone. As I said before just like consoles. 

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3 minutes ago, CptDirty said:

@SpecialAgentJohnson Not sure what you're on about, but I'm with @Vegetal on this one:

The only unpopular solution to this would be to remove graphical setting options and standardize it all for everyone. As I said before just like consoles. 

That would fix the problem perfectly of course but we don't need perfect. Only good enough. Also it is never going to happen. 

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2 hours ago, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

Obviously if your kawasaki dude gets in a competition against your crappy moped you wouldn't think it was fun, right? @Zylfrax791. Only if you had the kawasaki. We should strive for good gameplay I think

Things maybe also don't have to look worse, only different.

Yeah, but in your analogy you're taking the factory Kawasaki rider with his high-tech MX bike and forcing him to put a governor on it so the mopeds can be competitive.

 

Within the paradigm of any video game there have to be a set minimum hardware specs established when the game is released. So yeah, the only solution to your percieved problem of the high end player using "Low" settings to eliminate shadows and gain an advantage is to force shadows which would further alienate a certain segment of the already paltry community.

 

But then you'd be observing that the "Medium" settings give you an advantage over "Epic" so where does this ever end? Forced Epic settings and everyone needs i9, 64gb ram & 1080ti founders?

 

I say just enjoy the game and stop fretting about insignificant things like seeing someone in the shadows when there are much bigger issues that effect the fairness in the game like ghosting, pro-stacking and clan meta.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Yeah, but in your analogy you're taking the factory Kawasaki rider with his high-tech MX bike and forcing him to put a governor on it so the mopeds can be competitive.

 

Within the paradigm of any video game there have to be a set minimum hardware specs established when the game is released. So yeah, the only solution to your percieved problem of the high end player using "Low" settings to eliminate shadows and gain an advantage is to force shadows which would further alienate a certain segment of the already paltry community.

 

But then you'd be observing that the "Medium" settings give you an advantage over "Epic" so where does this ever end? Forced Epic settings and everyone needs i9, 64gb ram & 1080ti founders?

 

I say just enjoy the game and stop fretting about insignificant things like seeing someone in the shadows when there are much bigger issues that effect the fairness in the game like ghosting, pro-stacking and clan meta.

 

 

Exactly. If it is a competition then that will be required. But. What we are really doing here is the opposite(?), leaving the high tech kawasaki untouched.

 

It will end when things are good enough. That is a very good criteria. When all these people complaining, only the sour losers that someone here was complaining about are left. :)

 

Only setting that should maybe be forced (possibly) are those that are very inexpensive. Ugly cheap shadows could be forced or otherwise competitive advantage could be compensated otherwise somehow. 

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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