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For Insurgents, Instead of Riflemen Being Able to put Down Sandbags, They Should be Able to Place a Murder Hole on Most Walls

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Title is self explanatory. It would fit their playstyle better.

15126178_10210068267881712_849371829_o.j

Pic-related is what I'm referring to if anyone doesn't get what I'm talking about.

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I think this is a cool idea, but I don't think it is possible in the game currently. I want destruction so bad.

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This would require a shitton of work to be able to implement. Basically editing/redoing most of the models amd writing a code for it from scratch. Good idea but atm not possible i think.

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Posted (edited)

that brick looks waaay to big for that hole... oh and he can rest his gun I bet without doing the bipod shuffle.

Edited by embecmom

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In addition to sandbags, I'd like everyone to have the ability to dig ranger graves. Without deformation, they'd lay on top of the map, but imitate a very shallow wall/pit you could just prone behind. 

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Sparcany said:

I think this is a cool idea, but I don't think it is possible in the game currently. I want destruction so bad.

I agree, probably one for ‘Squad 2’... the ability to takeout strategic walls/treelines/props with explosives or just flatten whole areas of the map with arty would be amazing.. (I’m reminded of red faction :) ) 

 

Not sure how clever battletanks will really look without this..

6 hours ago, LugNut said:

In addition to sandbags, I'd like everyone to have the ability to dig ranger graves. Without deformation, they'd lay on top of the map, but imitate a very shallow wall/pit you could just prone behind. 

That’s a good idea, and totally feasible

Edited by Wilbaaah

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cool idea, but unfortunately not feasible on the engine Squad is using.

 

Seems to be already mentioned above me. Murder holes are the bane of urban combat, but the only way I can see how they are possible only if developers make more preset of murder holes in the walls. 

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1 hour ago, Caliell said:

cool idea, but unfortunately not feasible on the engine Squad is using.

Sorry but that's a pretty definitive statement. Why do you say that it's not possible in ue4?

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38 minutes ago, Psyrus said:

Sorry but that's a pretty definitive statement. Why do you say that it's not possible in ue4?

 

It would be possible to do in the engine but making it work in squad is infeasible.

 

You've not only got all the issues with figuring out how to dynamically create holes in walls but you've then got to sync that to every player on the server. It's one of those things that works in a game like Rainbow Six Siege because they have small scale maps and the game was built from the ground up to support it.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Stom said:

It would be possible to do in the engine but making it work in squad is infeasible.

 

You've not only got all the issues with figuring out how to dynamically create holes in walls but you've then got to sync that to every player on the server. It's one of those things that works in a game like Rainbow Six Siege because they have small scale maps and the game was built from the ground up to support it.

I disagree. If the technical hurdle of networked destructible meshes can be overcome in the engine, then network replication scale and efficiency challenges are just a matter of implementation. If people say "it wouldn't be worth the development effort to implement it" then I would be ok with that, but honestly it sounds like a bunch of people talking about stuff they don't really understand. 

 

It's not a technical issue in the engine to get replicated destruction, and murder holes wouldn't even require synched particle physics, literally just the final "base mesh" to have it's state synched. 

 

The challenges lie in how versitile they want the system to be, what walls allow it, how they handle the specific replication or relevancy issues, effects on LODs and then of course if you can use a shovel to make a murder hole, do you allow tank shells to bust a hole in the wall etc. 

 

From a programmer's POV, I don't see it as being "infeasible" at all, simply perhaps not worth the time/effort for a minor gameplay plus. If we use the sync between players as an insurmountable hurdle, the thought of multiple AR gunners on the battlefield would be unimaginable, due to their ROF and how many networked projectiles they put out. Hitscan is only used in CQB to the best of my knowledge. 

Edited by Psyrus

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3 hours ago, Psyrus said:

I disagree. If the technical hurdle of networked destructible meshes can be overcome in the engine, then network replication scale and efficiency challenges are just a matter of implementation. If people say "it wouldn't be worth the development effort to implement it" then I would be ok with that, but honestly it sounds like a bunch of people talking about stuff they don't really understand. 

 

It's not a technical issue in the engine to get replicated destruction, and murder holes wouldn't even require synched particle physics, literally just the final "base mesh" to have it's state synched. 

 

The challenges lie in how versitile they want the system to be, what walls allow it, how they handle the specific replication or relevancy issues, effects on LODs and then of course if you can use a shovel to make a murder hole, do you allow tank shells to bust a hole in the wall etc. 

 

From a programmer's POV, I don't see it as being "infeasible" at all, simply perhaps not worth the time/effort for a minor gameplay plus. If we use the sync between players as an insurmountable hurdle, the thought of multiple AR gunners on the battlefield would be unimaginable, due to their ROF and how many networked projectiles they put out. Hitscan is only used in CQB to the best of my knowledge. 

 

What I meant by infeasible is that it's not worth the development effort to implement especially given all of the other priority features in the way.

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4 hours ago, Psyrus said:

I disagree. If the technical hurdle of networked destructible meshes can be overcome in the engine, then network replication scale and efficiency challenges are just a matter of implementation. If people say "it wouldn't be worth the development effort to implement it" then I would be ok with that, but honestly it sounds like a bunch of people talking about stuff they don't really understand. 

 

It's not a technical issue in the engine to get replicated destruction, and murder holes wouldn't even require synched particle physics, literally just the final "base mesh" to have it's state synched. 

 

The challenges lie in how versitile they want the system to be, what walls allow it, how they handle the specific replication or relevancy issues, effects on LODs and then of course if you can use a shovel to make a murder hole, do you allow tank shells to bust a hole in the wall etc. 

 

From a programmer's POV, I don't see it as being "infeasible" at all, simply perhaps not worth the time/effort for a minor gameplay plus. If we use the sync between players as an insurmountable hurdle, the thought of multiple AR gunners on the battlefield would be unimaginable, due to their ROF and how many networked projectiles they put out. Hitscan is only used in CQB to the best of my knowledge. 

 

On 9-6-2018 at 9:16 AM, Guan_Yu007 said:

This would require a shitton of work to be able to implement. Basically editing/redoing most of the models amd writing a code for it from scratch. Good idea but atm not possible i think.

 

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^

 

Requires so much work, that it might need the patch in 6 months or so of its own. In that time so many other priorities can be done and over with, like implementing Main Battle Tanks, creating Combat Engineer/Sapper class (to disarm and plant mines and/or explosives), fix Wound Dressing and Medkit bug where bandages and Medkit do not work (which I find comical since Dressing in real life is for exactly what it means "To dress up the wound" not to fix it, to fix or plug the wound you use  other items like Hyfin seal for chest wounds and Quickclot Gauze to stuff the wound, but that will be "too realistic"). 

. Kornet for Russian and Rebel sides instead of "TOW for Everybody." 

 

This list could go on and on and on..... Basically it is easier to create stuff from the scratch in game than to add stuff to the game when it comes to designing.

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That was what was cool about Bad Company; you could partially destroy walls and create holes to snipe or shoot from.  And keep hitting all the walls and roofs til the whole building collapsed.  To make this happen in squad perhaps all that would be needed is destructable walls and a system where building collapsed after so much damage.  Do it same way Bad Company did it.  Would require coding and extra damage models to be made and networked states of walls and buildings I presume.

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1 minute ago, XRobinson said:

That was what was cool about Bad Company; you could partially destroy walls and create holes to snipe or shoot from.  And keep hitting all the walls and roofs til the whole building collapsed.  To make this happen in squad perhaps all that would be needed is destructable walls and a system where building collapsed after so much damage.  Do it same way Bad Company did it.  Would require coding and extra damage models to be made and networked states of walls and buildings I presume.

destruction will never come to squad

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3 minutes ago, YuriIsLoveYuriIsLife said:

destruction will never come to squad

There was lots of discussion about this and things were said if memmory serves me that it was said first locks and breaching then other things in future; it wasn't ruled out.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, XRobinson said:

That was what was cool about Bad Company; you could partially destroy walls and create holes to snipe or shoot from.  And keep hitting all the walls and roofs til the whole building collapsed.  To make this happen in squad perhaps all that would be needed is destructable walls and a system where building collapsed after so much damage.  Do it same way Bad Company did it.  Would require coding and extra damage models to be made and networked states of walls and buildings I presume.

The reason why Bad Company 2 have it is due to the fact that it have Frostbite engine specifically built for it. Squad uses Unreal (don't know which version probably Unreal 4) which does not have coding added into it for such physics behavior. Notice how in game built models of sandbags and FOBs act. They all get destroyed the same way with pre coded animations. Squad developers was able to add them into the game since built sets like that had none to little impact on the engine template of physics. Murder holes will require work that will have to weave the code for it into the game and at the same time not disrupt it and not come out buggy as hell. For murder holes you literally have to alter the engine code to the degree.

Edited by Caliell

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17 minutes ago, Caliell said:

The reason why Bad Company 2 have it is due to the fact that it have Frostbite engine specifically built for it. Squad uses Unreal (don't know which version probably Unreal 4) which does not have coding added into it for such physics behavior. Notice how in game built models of sandbags and FOBs act. They all get destroyed the same way with pre coded animations. Squad developers was able to add them into the game since built sets like that had none to little impact on the engine template of physics. Murder holes will require work that will have to weave the code for it into the game and at the same time not disrupt it and not come out buggy as hell. For murder holes you literally have to alter the engine code to the degree.

why tf so many companies using ue4 if it doesn't have something that would be relatively common in modern fps'? and then why is it there are demo video of people showing destructive environments in ue4?

 

 

 

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As @YuriIsLoveYuriIsLife has pointed out, UE4 does have the ability to have destructible buildings - It can pretty much make most objects destructible, including environment - UE4 can also allow terraforming.

UE4 is a very versatile engine, with countless possibilities - It can do some amazing things graphically too, with high res textures, tessellation, lighting etc But with all these cool features and possibilities of UE4, it comes downs to core features of the game and if there's room for these other cools things like destruction.

With Squad having tonnes of things going on, and more planned affecting things client and server side, all the features and systems planned on top of Squad's scale - It would come down to maybe some room for very basic destruction(like doors being blown off for example) or simplifying other areas to allow more...or the more likely rout(if destruction was to be added), trading-off other features to create room for large scale destruction(Which I don't think we want at all).

Until the game is feature complete, it wont be known 100% how much leeway there is for possible additional features - but with the scale Squad is going for with all the features planned, it will most likely be very little to none.



 

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