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ilee

Rendering grass at long distances

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I want to bring is great suggestion originally made for arma 3 to squad devs.

 

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?148861-Rendering-grass-at-long-distances-My-thoughts-about-it

 

First off I'm not the same guy who originally made the suggestion I'm just relaying it here. I think this could be a way to make possible to hide in a grass without rendering it too far. I would really like to hear what squad devs think about this.

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Very good thread, ilee.

 

A dev previously stated that he would advise mappers to never use grass that is tall enough to conceal a player, in order to overcome this rendering problem. (Instead, Trees, Bushes, and other StaticMeshes which do not shrink with distance should be used for foliage cover).

 

But I think it would give mapmakers a lot more flexibility to have this kind of alpha-masking system, so I really hope the devs look into it some time. I would personally really appreciate a system like this if I were to create a Jungle Level.

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I'm not a dev.

 

For Arma 3 that would help conceal you but I'm not sure that concealment of this level is necessary in squad, especially at this point in the game. (so much still in development). Like Nightingale said this would be a great feature for a modding team to add to a Jungle map where immersion is everything. But for vanilla squad I can't see this working. There are already so many moving parts, This would add more scripting and more calling so I don't think it would be wise. 

 

I'm just adding my opinion, thanks for bringing it to the table. I will have to research some more if this is the most efficient technique for Unreal. Its a neat idea!

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I set the grass on logar to infinite draw. Lost 3 frames. We will see how it goes this weekend! Dont blame me if your systems get a bit bogged!!

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I set the grass on logar to infinite draw. Lost 3 frames. We will see how it goes this weekend! Dont blame me if your systems get a bit bogged!!

That would be the best solution but can 100 player servers and those bigger maps that are planned handle it? Especially if map has lots of vegetation is infinite draw grass too much?

I'm eager to see how logar runs this weekend.

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+1 for the OP idea.

 

I set the grass on logar to infinite draw. Lost 3 frames. We will see how it goes this weekend! Dont blame me if your systems get a bit bogged!!

 

Yeah, but maybe someone turn the graphic low for a advantage ...

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I support the idea of being able to use grass/etc for cover at long distances, however it's implemented. I think it's an important game mechanic, but how it's been implemented in other games so far is that vegetation obstructs your vision, whereas you remain clearly visible from a long distance which gives the player a false sense of security.

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Its all client side and has nothing to do with the server.. think it through.. why would the server need to know anything about your grass draw distance?

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I could imagine the anti-cheat client would need to make sure no one had turned long distance foliage rendering off somehow and there are some grass for UE4 someone posted that reacts to movement and is set to stay matted down for any period of time, which would have to be communicated serverside? to any player in view of that grass.

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I set the grass on logar to infinite draw. Lost 3 frames. We will see how it goes this weekend! Dont blame me if your systems get a bit bogged!!

 

I hope you didn't break my current favorite map! :P

 

It's just the right size for the current gameplay. Kohat is a bit big and could really use vehicles. Forest is small and nice for a quick firefight. Logar is a nice medium between the other two. Plus, I really enjoy the village in the valley and clearing it out of enemies. :D

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Its all client side and has nothing to do with the server.. think it through.. why would the server need to know anything about your grass draw distance?

 

No no no.. don't get me wrong. Servers don't care but if there is 100 players running, shooting, explosions, big map, lots of objects and grass etc. clients will most definately care about that. I have a decent rig but I can see this to be gamebreaker for those that have lower end pc if they can't get decent FPS even with low settings.

 

And like mentioned above this MUST be either enabled for everyone or no one. I won't use it if I know others will see me through grass just my lowering their settings.

 

Good that we have this alpha so we can test things.

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olutsquadsmall.png

 

Best sig ever... will NEVER be topped..

Maybe the two soldiers should get edited to be drunk an fall on their faces?! :D

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olutsquadsmall.png

 

Best sig ever... will NEVER be topped..

 

The Mushroom is still real :)

 

Oh, I shall use this sig now because the beer is also real. And I'm too lazy to make one.

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It's an important topic...

 

Having played Arma for many years, the best solution I've ever seen was a mod to Arma 2 where all grass was restricted to about 4 inches max. It still looked pretty but no-one was under any illusion that they'd be hidden if they were to lie down. The draw limit didn't matter and even if local players turned it off, it wouldn't give them an edge - it'd just look worse for them. 

 

Nothing else has topped this in my book for balancing play and the aesthetic.

 

What you fellas think?

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OMG this was one of my biggest bugbears about the whole freakin Arma series, the fact that you were actually better concealed the closer you were to your target thanks to the LOD cutoffs for vegetation. If it's possible to have infinite draw grass distance... plz do eet!!!

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As long as you dont go the arma way of sinking the player into the terrain at distance im happy :D

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I don't know, but Joint Ops way of player "background" colored from parts that were hidden in the bush were rather nice. It weren't the perfect but it did work nicely. It also did do that closer you were in the grass (depending the angle of view) the better you were hidden, but at longer distance you were still pretty good "blurred" to your surroundings if you had even basic knowledge a) real world camoflage and hiding b)You had the knowledge that grass texture will be cut out at specific distance, leaving the background color fit as only camoflage c) If you really did know how to do it, you used small distches, treetrunks, stones, water and landscape randomness to hide you more. In the end you were safe only as long you didn't shot any bullets, since 3d sounds and muszle reports did draw enemy attention like poop draws flies.

 

The environment were nice with mainly jungles and tall grass most part of the maps (like poppy fields in SQD) and the big bonus compared to any game out there (including in some respect SQD) were the hide & seek (prey & predator) mentality and athmostpere in that game.

 

..And if I recall it correctly the draw distance were effected by items zoom level. (need to check) Something you don't keep attention when you have played too much. :P

 

Edit. Well what is proposed in OPs links first post about alpha is pretty much the way it did work in forementioned game.

 

Edit2. One thing also I want to draw attention is small randomness in the landscape that allows you to move around unnoticed in prone and crouched position. Dents and ditchess, even in somewhat flat areas.

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Yeah, JO did a pretty good jobs of it. iirc jo used to Alpha blend (or something like it) the person into the background - so grass was not rendered at great distance but players were rendered over that to appear like they were in grass.

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8 minutes ago, Phoenixstorm said:

Any news ? will this be imple implement sooner or later ?

 

No one ever said the specific mechanism the OP referred to will be implemented.

 

On 7/30/2015 at 3:56 AM, IrOnTaXi said:

I set the grass on logar to infinite draw. Lost 3 frames. We will see how it goes this weekend! Dont blame me if your systems get a bit bogged!!

 

It also seems a custom approach may not be necessary, UE4 can handle it natively.

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3 hours ago, JarryHead said:

No one ever said the specific mechanism the OP referred to will be implemented.

 

Thats why im asking about it, i havent read a confirmed or refused comment about this .

 

3 hours ago, JarryHead said:

It also seems a custom approach may not be necessary, UE4 can handle it natively.

 

Yeah it seems so but i didnt like that someone can turn it low/off to get a advantage. I know about the tournament mode but i speaking about norm. publics.

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22 minutes ago, Phoenixstorm said:

Yeah it seems so but i didnt like that someone can turn it low/off to get a advantage. I know about the tournament mode but i speaking about norm. publics.

 

True, but they should be able to enforce minimum settings on public servers in future.

 

Implementing this method might have a smaller performance impact for low settings, but can't imagine it would be worth the effort though.

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This seems to be the most relevant thread to post this in. What if we got rid of grass completely? Aside from the performance gains(which would be minimal) I really want to focus on the combat applications. The fact that even on "high" viewing distance grass stops rendering about 100 meters it makes it useless for concealment. It makes it almost impossible to use weapons from the prone in good positions. It makes sighting weapon emplacements harder as well because invariably that perfect spot if going to have a tuft of grass right in the middle of its traverse range.

 

So, why do we need grass in Squad?

 

Spoiler

I'm trying to avoid making a new thread but will do that if it will serve this discussion better.

 

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