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SpecialAgentJohnson

Increase penetrative damage for explosive weapons

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One of the problems with squad is that explosive type weapon, even though they have realistic penetrative shrapnel capabilities never can make buildings collapse, thus being dangerous to be inside. You will also never have that round penetrate the wall and then go off inside instead which happens sometimes in real life. What this means is that even though shrapnel penetrative power is modeled correctly, lethality of explosive weapons in the game will be extremely much lower than in real life. What this means for squad is that explosive weapons penetrative power on buildings should be upped on orders of magnitude in order to compensate for the lack of lethality of these weapons. Let's be honest, noone is afraid to go inside a building that has been bombarded all day long. You will never die from that falling roof etc. Also another factor with explosives going off inside buildings is the extreme pressure build up that you will get inside as well. In reality it would also contribute to the lethality of explosive weapons. I am pretty sure that if you had a tow missile going off in the room next door you would be in pretty bad shape. 

 

Currently buildings are like safe houses where you are perfectly safe if you just defend the entrances properly and stay away from the windows. This type of unrealism also have the map designers produce silly maps with strange undefendable buildings in order to compensate for the uncollapsible buildings protective abilities.

 

I think currently this is one of the main flaws with squad right now. Put in some serious artillery and heavy weapons and make them totally blow out the insides of those perfect hideouts. On the other hand. Some hideouts should actually be defendable as opposed to how it is now. Also artillery and supply lines should present high value targets and be able to be taken out with a proper assault and some actual strategic asset thinking going on. 

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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I absolutely hate Al basrah for the sole reason of people posted up in the buildings are a pain to evict. If they're not on the flag, that's fantastic since you can just go around but often it's so bunkered up you can't get in there.

Mortars as a counter if you can hit the roof should work.

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There isn't any shrapnel in Squad, there are the visual effects, but not particles that will hit you, which is one reason that explosives out in the open aren't very scary once you figure out their damage radius. If we have bullet penetration, we should have explosive penetration, I agree. Shooting HE at an adobe or cinderblock building should make paste out of whoever is on the other side of the wall. Same with mortars on so many of the flimsy residential roofs. 

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All fragmentation shells such as 30mm, SPG, RPG damage too low. Just yesterday, I shoot in a guy with SPG by Fragmentation shell and the shell fell not more than 3 metres from the guy but he was not killed and continued firing in me. Such game defects really kill gameplay

Edited by OXOTHNK

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On 2018-05-22 at 5:06 AM, LugNut said:

There isn't any shrapnel in Squad, there are the visual effects, but not particles that will hit you, which is one reason that explosives out in the open aren't very scary once you figure out their damage radius. If we have bullet penetration, we should have explosive penetration, I agree. Shooting HE at an adobe or cinderblock building should make paste out of whoever is on the other side of the wall. Same with mortars on so many of the flimsy residential roofs. 

It should be very easy to just randomize shrapnel damage with a formula including some type of distance-related probability. I thought this was being done actually. Maybe there is something more to it? 

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6 hours ago, OXOTHNK said:

All fragmentation shells such as 30mm, SPG, RPG damage too low. Just yesterday, I shoot in a guy with SPG by Fragmentation shell and the shell fell not more than 3 metres from the guy but he was not killed and continued firing in me. Such game defects really kill gameplay

Soooo many times i fraged the room with my RPG and i rush in and if the room is big a guy is still there and waiting for me to kill my a.. its really disapointing not to mention you using a frag rocket in the open on an enemy squad if you did not actually hit a guy in the body thy will just walk away with only bandaging them self it the best case in the worst case thy will turn straight to you and shoot your face off.

Give more power to the frag rockets ;-) 

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5 hours ago, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

It should be very easy to just randomize shrapnel damage with a formula including some type of distance-related probability. I thought this was being done actually. Maybe there is something more to it? 

One single guy, Dibbler, made the fairly massive Immersion Overhaul Mutator mod for RO2 which added actual shrapnel to explosions, as well as many other things that were awesome. He used particle effects to do it, I'm not a coder, so I have no idea how hard it would be. But it was in UE3, and Squad is UE4, so I'd imagine it is possible. Based on his mod, TWI hired him full time. 

 

So, the shrapnel sounds you hear are actual particles passing by, FF to 2:03

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Bahrein said:

Soooo many times i fraged the room with my RPG and i rush in and if the room is big a guy is still there and waiting for me to kill my a.. its really disapointing not to mention you using a frag rocket in the open on an enemy squad if you did not actually hit a guy in the body thy will just walk away with only bandaging them self it the best case in the worst case thy will turn straight to you and shoot your face off.

Give more power to the frag rockets ;-) 

The frag rockets are weird, they're less effective than GL's and like you said, only seem to work if you hit an enemy directly. 

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14 hours ago, LugNut said:

The frag rockets are weird, they're less effective than GL's and like you said, only seem to work if you hit an enemy directly. 

And when you frag RPG somone in the face its just beautiful ;-) While you write him in all chat “In tha face” he writes you back “noob tube” ;-)

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This is probably the third time i am all for shrapnels. I had this eye opening run in with mortars in Arma3 with ACE mod once. ACE adds shrapnels to all kind of explosions, and we were in safe distance to the blast, but the shrapnels killed 5 of us 8 guys trying to hide in the treeline. So i would really like to see them, because they make explosions a lot more dangerous and mortars deadly effective. Together with penetration it would vastly improve the effectiveness of such weaponry.

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Shrapnel is a must in any realistic game. That is just how explosives work.  Not adding them to a game is comparable to not adding bullet penetration. 

 

As for the explosives on buildings, I think Red Orchestra Darkest Hour handled this situation well. There was no destruction there either, but rockets did penetrate walls and created a cone shaped area of effect on the other side of the wall simulating fragments and force.

 

The rocket artillery is the worst. Me and my brother have tried so hard to use it. One time we spent the whole round firing rockets at "Fortification" in Mestia. The enemy had a HAB there. We were very close to Millitia main, just far enough to fire. By the end of the round we had 2 kills and 7 enemies downed. I saw the rockets land 2-4 meters beside infantry and they kept running. Rocket arty is useless at this point, it takes at least 3 well co ordinated people if you want to fire indirectly. There is no way to tell how high you are aiming and even if you hit the target the explosive force of the rockets is just meh.

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