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DanielNL

Realistic or unrealistic guidance of TOW (Bradley) ?

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So from what I understood about wire guided missiles, the missile guidance would be synchronized to aim-movement irl, so that if I make a fluent move to any direction, the missile will immediately make a move to try to stay within the center of crosshair and not just fly straight at the target point... real-life soldiers who fired TOWs on moving targets, please post your experience.

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Posted (edited)

A TOW has to be actively guided to the target, as opposed to fire-and-forgot or ones where you mark the target (laser/radar), but the missile does the rest.
There is a strobe at the back of the missile which is picked up by the fire control system, depending on the point of aim and the missiles position, correction is sent over the fiber optic cable.

Edited by Nimbus

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Posted (edited)

Ah yes nice! See, Squad doesn't have that perfected yet. Hope for a hotfix very soon! :) (Basically this code: check every 16 ms if missile is off center of crosshair,  if yes then make missile turn hard to the left/right/up/down, depending on position. Ofc acceleration and deceleration of movement COULD be added too for realism) else no movement

Edited by DanielNL

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6 hours ago, DanielNL said:

Ah yes nice! See, Squad doesn't have that perfected yet. Hope for a hotfix very soon! :) (Basically this code: check every 16 ms if missile is off center of crosshair,  if yes then make missile turn hard to the left/right/up/down, depending on position. Ofc acceleration and deceleration of movement COULD be added too for realism) else no movement

From what I've seen, TOW seems to bee working just fine, guidance and all.

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Not in Jensens range (I doubt its different there than from multiplayer)

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18 hours ago, DanielNL said:

Not in Jensens range (I doubt its different there than from multiplayer)

Some stuff has been different there in the past, so it could be. But remember testing it on the first day of the public test, and it was working fine. Gonna test again.

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Posted (edited)

so, I don't get it, what is your problem with TOW guidance? Seems pretty fine to me in both MP and Jensen's Range. Or do you expect the rocket to fly 360ies around you? =)

Edited by bravo2zero

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Posted (edited)

The PROBLEM is the TOW MISSILE is not MANEUVERING FAST/hard enough to "try" to stay within center of crosshair when moving crosshair fluently to the right/left!! Sadly I couldn't find any videos of TOW-moving-target(s) on YouTube, but I'm sure OWI can get in contact with sb. from the US forces who fired a TOW on a moving target to recall if the missile most of the time stayed in center of crosshair?

Edited by DanielNL

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Everything is working fine. I don't understand what is your problem with the TOW, it goes exactly where you point it.

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So you're saying there's a small delay between movement of the crosshairs and the actual response of the missile, in flight?

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Yes, missile reponse MAYBE too late, but imo definitely to WEAK, missile should make hard turn to the crosshair (and logically overshoot crosshair center by a bit, physics law of momentum) and then kinda recenter in crosshair (not perfectly of course). Vegetal you don't seem to understand the guidance as Nimbus above (post #2) has perfectly explained the mechanism.

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Well, let's find a verified source who used the TOW in real life and tried the one in game and see how it compares? 

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25 minutes ago, DanielNL said:

Yes, missile reponse MAYBE too late, but imo definitely to WEAK, missile should make hard turn to the crosshair (and logically overshoot crosshair center by a bit, physics law of momentum) and then kinda recenter in crosshair (not perfectly of course). Vegetal you don't seem to understand the guidance as Nimbus above (post #2) has perfectly explained the mechanism.

Ah... they're not supposed to make sharp turns though, only small corrections to keep on target. They use control surfaces, fins, or some kind of thrust system, which only allows for small movements. And from what I gather a just as important part is that abrupt inputs can cause the fire control system to loose track and crash the missile.

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TOWs maneuver just fine, dunno what you're talking about. They aren't jets that are supposed to make sharp turns, just small corrections to follow targets that move at like ~3% of missile's speed

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I thought the fire control system always "sees" the flare and calculates position from center of crosshair? And what did TOW program cost, several million $ ? surely the control fins can make 15-25° angles for medium-sharp flight-path-corrections

TOW-2A-diagrams-1024x479.jpg

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I don't see why it would be necessary, IRL or ingame. Are you trying to shoot TOWs around building corners at 50m range? They were never intended for those sorts of shenanighans and I highly doubt they would be able to make sharp turns. They aren't AA missiles for chrissakes

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Think of desert maps ok?

 

(ok one hint, long range TOW shooting at moving target...)

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5 minutes ago, Gopblin said:

I don't see why it would be necessary, IRL or ingame. Are you trying to shoot TOWs around building corners at 50m range? They were never intended for those sorts of shenanighans and I highly doubt they would be able to make sharp turns. They aren't AA missiles for chrissakes

Yeah, I'll have to agree here on this one. If the devs can confirm that they specifically did not implement a higher response time for TOW in-flight then it would be fine by me. Even if they didn't, as it is now, the TOWs are ridiculously OP. 

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I think a good example to show what I think Daniel means is how ATGMs work on ACE 2 for Arma 2. You can see an example with the TOW on this video at 04:17

 

 

The TOW keeps pretty much centered at almost all time, which makes for shooting targets far away or that are moving fast much easier.

 

In Squad (and PR) ATGMs aren't this agile and will take some time to line up with the crosshair, meaning you have to lead the target in order to score a hit, while in ACE 2 you just needed to keep the target centered.

 

But I'm not sure which system is more realistic as I've never fired an ATGM IRL.

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I'd be shocked to hear that TOW missile system cost millions to develop and the engineers not manage to create a fire control system to make missile have reaction times of under 200 ms to any aiming input... So.... And ArmA many times has proven to be a very realistic milsim

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i was trying to shoot around a tree the other day and couldnt get a turn radius to make the hit.

abandoned mrap about 100m away was in view but the rocket hit the tree about 20m away if aimed directly. I tried a few times to get it to turn but never managed it. The turn radius seemed very low no matter how much I turned the aim.

 

does the tree cut the connection or is it just a big radius on the turn?

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" the rocket hit the tree about 20m away " away from you or from the target?

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So basically, you are complaining the missile doesn't work the way you think it should work, even though you have zero knowledge on the system, and zero experience with it in real life? Ah...

 

In that case: you have no idea of what you are talking about. Neither do I. You would have to have fired one, or know how the PID is set-up, the control mechanism etc.

 

In the end, it's just that the missile isn't to your taste, right?

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In the end I want to have a us army (or whatever branch) soldier to post here to confirm that it is either VERY hard to hit a moving Target as you have to aim AHEAD of target or whether Hughes, as expected, has developed a very good fire control system which will command the missile very fast to stay around center of crosshair when moving the crosshair fluently to any direction... You finally understand it now?

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