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Friesen

Why does Squad still doesn't have the suppression flinch like in HLL ??

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9 hours ago, Font said:

I just said in my previous comment that optics are not OP, people just think they are because they are bad players. I see this in my community all the time, that new players spam click the optic slots because that is what allows them to get a handful of kills. While the best players don't really care about the acogs, and after each round they have the highest amounts of kills regardless of their sights. If you suck at the game you will suck with an optic too. I am not for simplistic shooting nor I am for allowing optics to dominate irons (for the 100th time optics are not much more powerful than irons, and they are certainly not OP)

However, I am all about a skillgap, and balance over realism (RPs, revives, Radio comms for insurgents, etc are not realistic, but they make the game better). Those 3 players had a really good chance of killing the AK guy, however they can't aim, so they were unable to hit the guy. The AK guy wasn't even bleeding. Since Squad is a multiplayer game and you play against real people. The better player and team should always win. If there is no skillgap then what is the point of playing a PVP game? You could play singleplayer or PVE. Do you think those 3 players tried to suppress the AK guy? NO. They were trying to kill him. But the better player won the engagement. a Stronger suppression mechanic would have rewarded the players for missing.

Shooting is super precise. But again so are the modern service rifles. I don't know what is the military requirement for the M4 or AK74, but lets say it is 3MOA (The HK416 is less than 2MOA BTW). A 3 MOA gun will shoot a 6 (19cm) inch group at 200(180m) yards, 19 cm circle is about the size of a human head btw. Most of the firefights in Squad are less than 200yards/180 meters. So yes your bullets will go pretty much exactly where you point them at those distances. As they would IN REAL LIFE. The US players did not miss because RNG. They missed because their aim was off. A suppression in that case would have prevented the better player to win that firefight, which for me is unacceptable in a PVP game. A small suppression is okay, but if it will prevent you from playing as good as you can, then it is not cool.

Nailed it.

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14 hours ago, Stom said:

Engagements within about 25m should be basically unaffected by suppression in my opinion, we don't want point blank fights that end in both players alive with no ammo.

And that's the thing, with the subtle flinch it's still very easy to hit anyone within 25m, that video shows how a little flinch there doesn't put off your aim a big deal so any target at short range would be an easy target even under fire still with that flinch.


Because at the end of the day, the game is played through a screen, you need these mechanics to produce a realistic outcome. And most people haven't even given it a try and then they post a false assumption that it takes your aim too much when in fact, in that DH video the player was still able to continue to fire. And when people do try it out then they realise, that yea, it actually does bring the firefights to a whole new level and not feel like the game is some cod/BF with a gunplay that mostly revolved around who snipes whoever first rather than suppressing fire being meaningful imposing stress/instinctive flinch from bullets and overall real soldier capability when being underfire rather than making it like as if soldiers are some kind of terminators.

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All this suppression nonsense is pointless without realizing a major fact.

 

Players in this game are REQUIRED to run-and-gun. The pacing is such that moving carefully, planning your approach etc is completely useless. You wipe an entire squad, it makes no difference, they will respawn in a minute. Your defense over a flag was so crushing that half the enemy team was wiped? No point in using that for a counter attack, they will all be there to defend.

 

You complain that suppression is ineffective because of all that. Players expose themselves way more than they should, and it's so easy to accurately kill an enemy because engagements are way too short ranged. They are required to do so because of general game mechanics. You need to keep pushing the enemy, relentlessly.

 

There's no way someone is gonna fear an AR when he's just 50m away and you quickly respawn. You can take your chances and peek. So you do. Adding suppression effects is treating the symptom, not the disease.

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There are some really good points. But I admit that What VEGETAL says is quite accurate. I went back to Squad a couple of months ago because I´ve been told that it will Little by Little ressemble PR.

 

NO one minute respawn 25 mts from the action, NO friendly nametags, bigger maps. 

 

I think people some people think scopes are OP because they die quickly. They are focused on that enemy in the next building, run out carelessly, gets shot from 50 mts. And complains because "that shooting is too accurate"

 

That shooting should be accurate,...it´s 50 mts against a careles target. 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/22/2018 at 10:48 AM, Font said:

If you can't use irons or non magnified optics then the problem is with you. You should be able to reliably hit anything up to 100 meters without optics. 200 for stationary targets. As I said before, I see this all the time within my community. New players are quickly taking the kits with optics, yet our medics and LATs have more kills than the 2 acog riflemen combined. It is very rare that you have to shoot farther than 200 meters anyway in this game. Don't want to sound like a CoD kid, but if you can't use irons then you need to "git gud".

 

It's a shame you have that attitude with the community. Your solution to my point only fulfills your style of point and click gameplay.

 

MGs should not be for plinking scoped enemies but to provide cover for riflemen to engage flanking manueovers.

 

Currently, half of every team is running around with scopes making them useless at doing their job (even the 4x lmgs are used for burst fire insta doming). Thus the job for keeping heads down are the armored scopes vehicles, NOT IS lmg kits. So why have them? A riflemen kit is far more versatile given it's equipment and lower recoil.

 

Finally, if suppression is not a big deal and scopes dominate the battlefield why are the devs adding scopes for deployable HMGs? Every weapon will eventually need a scope unless suppression is overhauled. Those who are against an improved suppression system refuse to acknowledge the issue and have become too comfortable with personal pixel clicking skill rather than squad tactics and communication competance.

 

A game called Squad should reward those who act as a cohesive unit, not the current return fire snap shooting which only rewards individual players (such as both of us, because pixel shooting is easy. However teamwork takes real patience and skill.)

Edited by Gammazeta430

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Posted (edited)
On 4/14/2018 at 6:16 AM, Friesen said:

I don't get it, this can't be possibly excuse for Squad dev's that they still haven't had enough time to do it when HLL only just came out and already got a good suppression flinch.

1

What makes you think the devs are going to add suppression flinch?

 

On 4/14/2018 at 6:16 AM, Friesen said:

The reason people have been saying Squad is dying... 

1

People say a lot of things, but that doesn't make it true. Squad's average player count rises.

Edited by Cavazos

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Posted (edited)

Surprisingly, I'm with OP. Perhaps not in such strong terms, but Squad combat would probably benefit from stronger suppression. Current version has less suppression than paintball for crying out loud.
It is entirely possible to put down accurate return fire while a few guys are landing shots all around you, or even hitting your limbs. That's just unrealistic.
I'm not sure if more suppression would make optics vs irons balance better (since optics would be able to suppress people more efficiently anyway), but I'd guess overall gameplay experience would be improved.

Edited by Gopblin

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Didn't Devs said they are reworking suppression?

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12 hours ago, Cavazos said:

People say a lot of things, but that doesn't make it true. Squad's average player count rises.

Couple of months after the big V10 launch we're back to V9 numbers, that ""rise"" is literally just today because the month just started and "Last 30 days" actually means "This month".

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23 hours ago, Axel said:

Didn't Devs said they are reworking suppression?

Yes. And i m very happy to see a good suppression system. in fact it does not exist now

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Has there not been a suppression overhaul in the last V11 update ? Can someone tell me because I'm pretty sure that the devs said they are reworking suppression and I was really surprised to see nothing about suppression in the V11 changelog...

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14 minutes ago, Friesen said:

Has there not been a suppression overhaul in the last V11 update ? Can someone tell me because I'm pretty sure that the devs said they are reworking suppression and I was really surprised to see nothing about suppression in the V11 changelog...

 

Not yet. V11 features some pretty dramatic vehicle overhauls which is probably where the focus was rather than suppression.

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11 hours ago, Friesen said:

Has there not been a suppression overhaul in the last V11 update ? Can someone tell me because I'm pretty sure that the devs said they are reworking suppression and I was really surprised to see nothing about suppression in the V11 changelog...

Nope, and the worst part is that I don't think we get a monthly recap either. V11 focused on the british faction, the addition of IFV's and localized damage on vehicles. Latest update also added ammo carry for all vehicles which IMO is the most underrated aspect of V11.

We will get a suppression overhaul, but remember that even if what we get is insufficient in and of itself, there are other areas of the games design that can enhance the suppression in the game. Squad is developed piece by piece, which is possibly for the best, so we just have to be patient.

(Though I would really like some news on the aspect of the game I consider one of the most important).

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Gaius Marius

 

suppression has made the short list for the v12 feature pool.

 

i agree its very important aspect missing from Squad atm... hang in there.

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Posted (edited)

Thank you fuzzhead for acknowledging the very important need for it.

 

All I ask is a subtle flinch like Post Scriptum already has, look how effective is here for instance at 6:42 at making that sniper take for cover after that bullet snap which prompted his aim to go slightly swayed away.. And it works brilliantly because then optics are not so easy to just peek out and snipe everyone. Suppressing someone is then actually meaningful and effective.

 

 

Edited by Friesen

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On 5/4/2018 at 12:34 AM, Friesen said:

Has there not been a suppression overhaul in the last V11 update ? Can someone tell me because I'm pretty sure that the devs said they are reworking suppression and I was really surprised to see nothing about suppression in the V11 changelog...

Suppression wasn't part of v11, but it is a system we're developing. There's a working prototype at the moment, but the designers are still working with it to find the "right" kind of suppression. SgtRoss talks a bit about it here: 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/8/2018 at 10:53 AM, Gatzby said:

Suppression wasn't part of v11, but it is a system we're developing. There's a working prototype at the moment, but the designers are still working with it to find the "right" kind of suppression. SgtRoss talks a bit about it here: 

 

This is an awesome video. That recon of next objectives idea sounds really good! If the AAS layer is randomized and you can't see the next flags until your own are captured, then it is impossible to rush! All you can do is use a reconnaissance force to monitor troop movements and rush based on that. That would be really interesting!

Edited by Cavazos

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Posted (edited)

Just my 2 cents on Suppression and why, in my humble opinion, a robust suppression system would be a good addition to the flow of Squad.

In my mind, suppression would be a mechanic to encourage more tactical maneuver type firefights.
Basically suppression and flanking elements. This is something that is somewhat missing in Squad. Firefights tend to be over quickly instead of developing. There is a lack of back and forth flow, just grinding and people eventually dispersing from their squad.
People tend to run in like Rambo because why not?

I'm not saying this is not a valid dynamic for an FPS, but I would hope that firefights would have a little more depth to them than your average guns blazing meatgrinder. Like more frontlines developing.  Would also make lone wolfing less successful because a squad could suppress you much more effectively than you would be able to suppress them. This could lead to more squad cohesion because force multipliers would actually be a thing.

 

Any mechanic that adds more tactical depth to the flow of firefights is great in my book. For me its not even about realism. Its about encouraging teamwork and more tactical thinking, you could still have your run and gun. That's always going to be effective in certain situations - but it wouldn't be the dominant dynamic.

 

Obviously I understand the need for balance with this. Too much and you slow the game to a crawl.
Too little and guys will just carry on FPSing away.

Edited by Taliessyn
grammar, clarity

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Posted (edited)
On 10/5/2018 at 10:59 AM, Taliessyn said:

Just my 2 cents on Suppression and why, in my humble opinion, a robust suppression system would be a good addition the the flow of Squad.

In my mind, suppression would be a mechanic to encourage more tactical maneuver type firefights.
Basically suppression and flanking elements. This is something that is somewhat missing in Squad.
People tend to run in like Rambo because why not? I'm not saying this is not a valid dynamic for an FPS, but I would hope that firefights would have a little more depth to them than your average guns blazing meatgrinder. More frontlines developing. Would make lone wolfing less successful because a squad could suppress you much more effectively than you would be able to suppress them.

Any mechanic that adds more tactical depth to the flow of firefights is great in my book. For me its not even about realism. Its about encouraging teamwork and more tactical thinking.

Obviously I understand the need for balance with this. Too much and you slow the game to a crawl.
Too little and guys will just carry on FPSing away.

agree on everything

It would also greatly help the balance between optical vs iron sigh

Edited by Tmac

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In the video they talk about working on suppression. Now they don't say exactly what will be implemented. They have a page of thousands of ideas on how to implement it and they definitely want it to enhance the tactical nature of the game while not being too debilitating.

 

SgtRoss said it would be kind of like Red Orchestra suppression and I think he also said it would have some physical effect. Which may or may not be flinching or could be to a certain degree.

 

The idea is they have so many ways to do it and are trying to capture the feel of combat. This is understandably not an easy thing to portray in-game.

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