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Friesen

Why does Squad still doesn't have the suppression flinch like in HLL ??

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I just tested Hell Let Loose and even though it's super unpolished at this stage, many things aren't even implemented yet. I was really glad that the suppression flinch mechanics are really strong and decent.

 

I don't get it, this can't be possibly excuse for Squad dev's that they still haven't had enough time to do it when HLL only just came out and already got a good suppression flinch.


The reason people have been saying Squad is dying because of simply optics are so OP that makes everyone practically a marskman that is able to hit enemy popping out from across the map. It's like point & tap tap tap dead kind of incredibly boring firefights that makes this game so tiring to play.

 

I'm absolutely convinced that Squad's problem lies in the firefights, and with the suppression flinch for flying bullets, the firefights would feel 3x times better than now. It makes the firefights more immersive, and longer lasting and it's less about sniping fest all the time but rather how the squads should mutually support each other and respond in a collective suppressive fire rather than everyone being their own marksman...

 

It is untrue that in real life your hands wouldn't be shaking, because it's completely different to shoot at a target range and to actually fire in a real battlezone, the flinch is actually more realistic than without it, because no matter how experienced the soldier was, you'd always have an unsteady aim when the bullets are whizzing by your head, no matter how trained the soldier is and besides this is meant to portray an average soldier in the game. And the flinch is what it represents it, it's an instinctive reaction to oncoming bullets which makes it harder especially for the optics to easily return fire while being pinned down.

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Posted (edited)

Totally agree. And I would like to see less optics in general. For me the optics must have only SL, the scout (with binoculars), an LMG and of course the Spiner. Stop. With this setup the teams would be much more united and would fight a lot more together.

Edited by Tmac

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Yess, considering the fact that Squad has got a lot more optics than HLL, it needs these suppression flinch mechanics even more... to make all the roles balanced throughout and which would make the optics a lot less OP than they're now... It would be more about MGs being more powerful and actually effective in suppressing the enemy, rather than optics picking everyone out and feeling like it's just a snping fest.

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Yea, Hell let Loose has insane supression. Optics should remain , almost all soldiers in the  US Army have acog as standard issue scope.

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I love the suppression flinch being that strong, but the thing Squad having so many optics needs this mechanic even more... Because that would balance it out iron sights vs optics a great deal as the flinch is always greater if you're zooming in. And beside the blur does almost nothing in trying to prevent the optic being OP.

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2 hours ago, Friesen said:

I don't get it, this can't be possibly excuse for Squad dev's that they still haven't had enough time to do it when HLL only just came out and already got a good suppression flinch.

Have you considered that the devs have seen your (hundreds of?) posts about the subject, considered the suggestion and decided they don't want to do it? I personally would also prefer much better suppression mechanics but you seem to have this idea that your way is the "correct" way and the devs would be foolish not to listen to you. It's not particularly endearing. 

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I'm personally against this type of suppression, but I wont slam it down as it's HLL's first version during Alpha testing.Things will change.


Anywho, OWI are working on a new suppression system, as has been said multiple times, including in the AMA etc Patience is a virtue.
 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Friesen said:

I just tested Hell Let Loose and even though it's super unpolished at this stage, many things aren't even implemented yet. I was really glad that the suppression flinch mechanics are really strong and decent.

 

I don't get it, this can't be possibly excuse for Squad dev's that they still haven't had enough time to do it when HLL only just came out and already got a good suppression flinch.


The reason people have been saying Squad is dying because of simply optics are so OP that makes everyone practically a marskman that is able to hit enemy popping out from across the map. It's like point & tap tap tap dead kind of incredibly boring firefights that makes this game so tiring to play.

 

I'm absolutely convinced that Squad's problem lies in the firefights, and with the suppression flinch for flying bullets, the firefights would feel 3x times better than now. It makes the firefights more immersive, and longer lasting and it's less about sniping fest all the time but rather how the squads should mutually support each other and respond in a collective suppressive fire rather than everyone being their own marksman...

 

It is untrue that in real life your hands wouldn't be shaking, because it's completely different to shoot at a target range and to actually fire in a real battlezone, the flinch is actually more realistic than without it, because no matter how experienced the soldier was, you'd always have an unsteady aim when the bullets are whizzing by your head, no matter how trained the soldier is and besides this is meant to portray an average soldier in the game. And the flinch is what it represents it, it's an instinctive reaction to oncoming bullets which makes it harder especially for the optics to easily return fire while being pinned down.

1. People aren't saying squad is dying because lack of your god tier suppression immersion.

2. Where are you basing your opinion on hands shaking in a firefight from? Personal experience or your knowledge based on books and videos that contain OTHER people's experience? 

 

3. Optics SHOULD win versus Ironsights. This is not up for debate. Ironsights cannot effectively engage past 300 Meters and even then it's sketchy at most. Should stay that way. Currently the only kits that have ironsights are the ones that serve other purpose's 

Your post was fine, your argument just copies the same thing hundreds of other people have talked about before. The search bar is your friend. The only thing that really triggered me besides your ignorance on why people think the game is dying is your superior knowledge of how suppression works in a "battlezone" compared to people like Sgt. Ross, Odin, Melbo and various other COMBAT VETERANS that play this game or work on this game. 

If you don't have personal experience with it, don't make a post to try and tell us how these things work in real life. 

Edited by Robin Sage

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4 hours ago, Friesen said:

I'm absolutely convinced that Squad's problem lies in the firefights, and with the suppression flinch for flying bullets, the firefights would feel 3x times better than now. It makes the firefights more immersive, and longer lasting and it's less about sniping fest all the time but rather how the squads should mutually support each other and respond in a collective suppressive fire rather than everyone being their own marksman...

Its already hard enough to kill people in V10 please don't go around trying to make it harder. This game is not a military simulator it's a cross between Arma and Battlefield that is meant to be fun not a simulation.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Friesen said:

I just tested Hell Let Loose and even though it's super unpolished at this stage, many things aren't even implemented yet. I was really glad that the suppression flinch mechanics are really strong and decent.

 

I don't get it, this can't be possibly excuse for Squad dev's that they still haven't had enough time to do it when HLL only just came out and already got a good suppression flinch.


The reason people have been saying Squad is dying because of simply optics are so OP that makes everyone practically a marskman that is able to hit enemy popping out from across the map. It's like point & tap tap tap dead kind of incredibly boring firefights that makes this game so tiring to play.

 

I'm absolutely convinced that Squad's problem lies in the firefights, and with the suppression flinch for flying bullets, the firefights would feel 3x times better than now. It makes the firefights more immersive, and longer lasting and it's less about sniping fest all the time but rather how the squads should mutually support each other and respond in a collective suppressive fire rather than everyone being their own marksman...

 

It is untrue that in real life your hands wouldn't be shaking, because it's completely different to shoot at a target range and to actually fire in a real battlezone, the flinch is actually more realistic than without it, because no matter how experienced the soldier was, you'd always have an unsteady aim when the bullets are whizzing by your head, no matter how trained the soldier is and besides this is meant to portray an average soldier in the game. And the flinch is what it represents it, it's an instinctive reaction to oncoming bullets which makes it harder especially for the optics to easily return fire while being pinned down.

the problem with squad is NOT optics... and for the love of god PLEASE drop the whole "suppression will make the game better" concept because it wont !!!! 

 

the problem with squad is that there's a HUGE gap between how the game is played and the way OWI wants the game to be played.

 

if you played as a squad then when one of your squad members get shot, then the person that shot him should be killed by an AR, GL or another rifleman.... and the member that got shot?? well he should be healed by a medic.  each class within a squad supports the other - just like OWI meant it to be played.  

 

so strap on your boots and stop being a snowflake, play as a squad, support each other and listen to your squad leader (and STOP choosing the marksman class)... hopefully he knows what hes doing, and if he doesn't find one that does.  

Edited by Errand_Boy

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Errand_Boy said:

the problem with squad is NOT optics... and for the love of god PLEASE drop the whole "suppression will make the game better" concept because it wont !!!! 

 

the problem with squad is that there's a HUGE gap between how the game is played and the way OWI wants the game to be played.

 

if you played as a squad then when one of your squad members get shot, then the person that shot him should be killed by an AR, GL or another rifleman.... and the member that got shot?? well he should be healed by a medic.  each class within a squad supports the other - just like OWI meant it to be played.  

 

so strap on your boots and stop being a snowflake, play as a squad, support each other and listen to your squad leader (and STOP choosing the marksman class)... hopefully he knows what hes doing, and if he doesn't find one that does.  

jawohl!

 

Except I love Marksman. :P

Edited by Robin Sage

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Increased suppression is stupid.

 

The system we have in game already works pretty well.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

For me the supression is fine as is in V10.1. I hated the "getting shot at, better close my eyes" supression in PR, and the HLL supression looks just as bad. Optics are not much more powerful than irons. Especially when you consider the average engagement distance in the game. It comes down to your skill. A good player wont have a problem hitting someone with irons up to 200 meters. I am in a squad clan, and the best players within the clan, always have the best KD after a match, regardless of their kit. 

Edited by Font

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Project Reality had the optics problem, their solution was to give every class the choice between optics or iron sights.

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I think there is an overlook reason why firefights are short and combat is lethal. And that reason is NAMETAGS. Coming from PR I realised that if I see anything moving that doesnt have a HUGE blue or Green TAG just let loose. FIRE FIRE FIRE! that IS an enemy. No need to ask to other squad members, no need to check on the map, which would take some seconds to confirm that is enemy. I´ve just played for 60+ hours, but in the last hours I´ve realised I don´t have to confirm anything. If it moves and doesn´t have a nametag, FIRE. That´s how I started getting kills.

 

Bottomline, I think firefights SHOULD be short and lethal, nothing wrong with it. Just that the tags add an ARCADY dynamic to it all.

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20 hours ago, Dubs said:

I'm personally against this type of suppression, but I wont slam it down as it's HLL's first version during Alpha testing.Things will change.


Anywho, OWI are working on a new suppression system, as has been said multiple times, including in the AMA etc Patience is a virtue.
 

 omfg this suppression look like a joke . 

please dont add this to squad . 

everyone after 10 min of gameplay will have a headace

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I'd prefer if it was just the alignment of the sights that was thrown off, not the entire camera. Only time will tell what Squad will do.

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Just wanted to chime in and say HLL's suppression mechanics are damn near perfect. I'd love to see something similar in Squad. It actually makes suppressing people a meaningful tactic and it changes the way firefights are paced out for the better. 

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I like how we have it now. Why ? Because suppression is not shooting to sky for create some blur flinch effect. You shoot to kill thats it. 

If you want someone keep behind corner and not let him take a look just shoot to place where he will look. He should be scare to just look behind corner. If he will make it and shoot you .. than its not suppression. 

For some basic information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressive_fire

And yes it works in squad very often. Sure there are people who dont care about virtual life but its just matter of experiences and when those guys get hit 10 times because they just dont care than they usually hate Squad or start play much more gentle. Well thats usually moment when people start love this game. 

Problem with scopes ? Well everyone with scope is like horny pooche. In most cases they sit on some ridge line or with some good field of view where they have luxury of space and just shoot like at firing range. Players with scopes are lazy and live in comfort of CoD mentality. Just avoid any area which are for them as candy and problem will be solved or kill them with vehicles. 

But yes there is another problem. Vehicles are operated by same group of people as with scope. So yes in many times that completely ignore teamwork. 

Same problem as before. CoD mentality. 

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29 minutes ago, elerik said:

I like how we have it now. Why ? Because suppression is not shooting to sky for create some blur flinch effect. You shoot to kill thats it. 

If you want someone keep behind corner and not let him take a look just shoot to place where he will look. He should be scare to just look behind corner. If he will make it and shoot you .. than its not suppression. 

For some basic information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressive_fire

And yes it works in squad very often. Sure there are people who dont care about virtual life but its just matter of experiences and when those guys get hit 10 times because they just dont care than they usually hate Squad or start play much more gentle. Well thats usually moment when people start love this game. 

 

That's an idealised version of the game and not what happens in reality. Supression exists as a mechanic to make up for the fact you don't care about dying since it's a video game, but anyway it's already been confirmed that a suppression system is upcoming.

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On 14/4/2018 at 6:23 PM, odi said:

Increased suppression is stupid.

 

The system we have in game already works pretty well.

 

 

Works pretty well? In fact it does not work neither good nor bad ... because the suppression does not exist at present.

In fact the Devs know it and they are working on it.
So, as you say, increasing the suppression is not a stupid idea ... maybe yours is a stupid idea of wanting to leave it like this :)

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I´d love to see some more suppression. Right now it´s not bad, but some more black/White screen and blurry edges and textures would be good. 

 

Right now suppression is Okis, but I think we need some more impact.

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7 hours ago, elerik said:

I like how we have it now. Why ? Because suppression is not shooting to sky for create some blur flinch effect. You shoot to kill thats it. 

If you want someone keep behind corner and not let him take a look just shoot to place where he will look. He should be scare to just look behind corner. If he will make it and shoot you .. than its not suppression. 

For some basic information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressive_fire

And yes it works in squad very often. Sure there are people who dont care about virtual life but its just matter of experiences and when those guys get hit 10 times because they just dont care than they usually hate Squad or start play much more gentle. Well thats usually moment when people start love this game. 

Problem with scopes ? Well everyone with scope is like horny pooche. In most cases they sit on some ridge line or with some good field of view where they have luxury of space and just shoot like at firing range. Players with scopes are lazy and live in comfort of CoD mentality. Just avoid any area which are for them as candy and problem will be solved or kill them with vehicles. 

But yes there is another problem. Vehicles are operated by same group of people as with scope. So yes in many times that completely ignore teamwork. 

Same problem as before. CoD mentality. 

****en exactly. People should not be rewarded for missing their target. You can keep shooting at a cover, the enemy either stays there, or tries to peek and kills you (which is your fault, so his kill is well deserved). Or you kill him, and he can watch the respawn screen for the next 45 seconds, and then run for 2+ minutes to catch up with his squad, third option is pop some smoke and get out of there.

Messing up your aim, spread and vision is a huge reward for being bad at aiming. Close range firefights would come down to who shoots first, because even if the first shot misses, the other guy will have no chance to react, because his vision and aim will be messed up. Supression in HLL and PR is stupid. Supression in squad as is in V10.1 is perfect. 

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