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I've literally suffered through multiple games where mortars can turn the tides on its own. Not just that a team who acquires mortars greatly increases their chances of winning. Keeping in mind no all squad leaders are created equal. My point being, I don't think mortars should in any way be removed. However, it's overkill when you can quite literally have INFINITE mortars at times. If a team is behind all the other team need do to ensure victory, is hiding behind a never-ending bombardment of mortars, and yes NEVER ENDING IS LITERAL. So this has to be changed. An unending supply of mortars is definitely not realistic unless you're the US. And to keep things both balanced and fun we should limit the said use of mortars. Or else once behind always behind. Who know's it's not hard to lose to a team who rushes as quickly as possible to whatever locations. Once there they do what they do best, camp the objective. Essentially ensuring victory within minutes of the start. Compounding that issue is an unlimited supply of mortars. What do you guys think? You cannot say you've not seen it yourselves. 

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All u have to do is kill the logistic trucks. Take your team and kill them, mortars take a supply truck to be continually delivering to maintain constant barage. So no the aren't over powered. 

 

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None of it matters because the guys who use mortars are often too dumb to spread their shots. As long as the first one didn't hit you, none of them will.

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4 hours ago, Rybec said:

None of it matters because the guys who use mortars are often too dumb to spread their shots. As long as the first one didn't hit you, none of them will.

so true .

when i do mortars i go crazy .

1 mortar hit the target the second hit enemy main and the 3th one is landing on the other server .

that i some suprise 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, JerryChristOMighty said:

I've literally suffered through multiple games where mortars can turn the tides on its own. Not just that a team who acquires mortars greatly increases their chances of winning. Keeping in mind no all squad leaders are created equal. My point being, I don't think mortars should in any way be removed. However, it's overkill when you can quite literally have INFINITE mortars at times. If a team is behind all the other team need do to ensure victory, is hiding behind a never-ending bombardment of mortars, and yes NEVER ENDING IS LITERAL. So this has to be changed. An unending supply of mortars is definitely not realistic unless you're the US. And to keep things both balanced and fun we should limit the said use of mortars. Or else once behind always behind. Who know's it's not hard to lose to a team who rushes as quickly as possible to whatever locations. Once there they do what they do best, camp the objective. Essentially ensuring victory within minutes of the start. Compounding that issue is an unlimited supply of mortars. What do you guys think? You cannot say you've not seen it yourselves. 

 

Yes i have seen it myself.. but rarely.  As Kitty said it takes a dedicated ammo logi runner to keep mortars constantly firing.   90% of mortar squads struggle to stay supplied, and 80% of mortar squads are completely ineffective. (nice made up %) 

 

IMO the vast majority of times mortars provide no advantage to their team.  But we all love exceptions!

Edited by Tommy
spelling

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In the right hands mortars can be very effective but definitely not OP! On public servers most pub player terrible on the mortar! If my mortar guys are on then it can be very effective especially in a public match 

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I don't know how many hours I have in game since mortars have come out and I've been killed..... maybe 3 times? You basically have to be hit on the top of your head to die, whereas, the damage radius with shrapnel should be wounding everyone standing around. When you hear mortars incoming, you should be scrambling for cover, or hitting the deck, and now, I just ignore them and survive. 

 

For the amount of player time involved in building, supplying and shooting them, they are usually ineffective. Very cool looking and sounding, but not super effective. I think they're better at trying to kill armor than enemies for the most part. As well as easy to find and kill them, as was mentioned. 

 

If anything was changed with them, I'd support making them far more lethal, and harder to supply. So, save them for when you need them, but they actually make a difference when you do, especially in suppression. 

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Ive seen you write this is most of the posts mortars where mentioned Lug, and from talking to people i think you are an isolated case with a few others. 

 

There been written quite a few examples where mortars solves problems, where other methods are too costly or time/ticket consuming.

 

But that said i wouldn't mind having to piss on the tube to cool it down We were soldiers style )

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I am with Lugo, they feel not really powerfull, only spam makes them so. I would like to see a reduction of spam and a increase in lethality. The addition of a fragment simulation ala ACE 3 in ArmA3 would be wonderfull, but even a raised killzone would make me happy. Make them a little scarce but deadly.

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Oh when you’re in a competitive match and your rally is being mortared 

 

nothing is really used right in public matches so it would be very very a hard to compare what’s op and what’s not because the two are very different! In a pub game 90% of the time mortars are way off and run out of supply’s after 5 minutes in a competitive match that’s not the case but you have guys looking for there mortar fob to take it out  

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So I've been going out of my way to create 3 man mortar squad on various maps on pub matches using the calculator....Here are my findings:

 

- Since I'm doing the runs and the 2 other members are manning the mortars, I have to rely on other SL's for targets and corrections. I don't always get observation remarks from SL's on how effective/accurate my mortars are. 

 

- Very often our team were not able to secure the mid cap or put a FOB/HAB within reasonable time which forced me to task my squad with FOB placing duties. Basically cleaning up the mess other SL's did. 

 

- Very often, some server rules prohibit the placement of a mortar FOB very close to main.

 

- Very often even if the mortar FOB is placed relatively close to main, the enemy team will send a squad to try and take it down. Causing my squad to constantly get out of mortars to defend the FOB rendering the mortars offline. 

 

- Only when my team is extremely well organized and properly set FOB/HABs and are controlling the momentum that my mortars are in full effectiveness. Although this doesn't always happen....

 

- Not to mention that HE rounds do not cause the same damage in game as they do in real life. Perhaps for balance or otherwise I'm not quite sure but this is an undeniable fact that HE rounds, upon impact, do not cause enough damage as they should. 

 

Final thoughts: Mortars are easy to handle and deal with, hard to properly implement unless the other SL's are doing their job properly. 

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On 4/9/2018 at 7:39 PM, JerryChristOMighty said:

I've literally suffered through multiple games where mortars can turn the tides on its own. Not just that a team who acquires mortars greatly increases their chances of winning. Keeping in mind no all squad leaders are created equal. My point being, I don't think mortars should in any way be removed. However, it's overkill when you can quite literally have INFINITE mortars at times. If a team is behind all the other team need do to ensure victory, is hiding behind a never-ending bombardment of mortars, and yes NEVER ENDING IS LITERAL. So this has to be changed. An unending supply of mortars is definitely not realistic unless you're the US. And to keep things both balanced and fun we should limit the said use of mortars. Or else once behind always behind. Who know's it's not hard to lose to a team who rushes as quickly as possible to whatever locations. Once there they do what they do best, camp the objective. Essentially ensuring victory within minutes of the start. Compounding that issue is an unlimited supply of mortars. What do you guys think? You cannot say you've not seen it yourselves. 

Just find the point of origin and flank it. Its not really hard.

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20 hours ago, Voice said:

Ive seen you write this is most of the posts mortars where mentioned Lug, and from talking to people i think you are an isolated case with a few others. 

 

There been written quite a few examples where mortars solves problems, where other methods are too costly or time/ticket consuming.

 

But that said i wouldn't mind having to piss on the tube to cool it down We were soldiers style )

I've seen them work too, but usually, they don't. Anything will work in a competitive match, because skilled players will make the most of it.

 

The game as it is now is so fast paced, that taking at least one logi out of it, and the crew of people needed to keep mortars running, is more damaging to the friendly team than the opponents, who can be swarming your caps and will be using their logis to place forward HABs, backcapping you. People fear the 30mm, and the stryker, both of which can shut down an area of the map and be difficult to kill, I'm not afraid of mortars at all, they're annoying at best. If you're in a building, you're safe, unlike with armor. Unless you have your mortars waaay across the map, they're so easy to find and kill, plus, people usually build them right next to your HAB, so it's a nice audio signal to "attack here". 

 

If they blew shrapnel out in a large radius like this, you can bet people would be afraid of them. There was particle modeling in a mod for RO2 in UE3, and it completely changed how people reacted to nades and arty, which were sort of like mortars here are now. You had to be within the explosion radius to take damage, and everyone knew what that was, so you could sit there one foot outside it, watch them explode and be fine. In the mod though, you could be killed by a piece of shrapnel from 100m away, so incoming arty meant, get out of the open or you died. Which made arty far more powerful in suppression, you knew the enemy would be motionless and not returning fire while a barrage was underway, so you could move up. I've yet to see that happen with mortars in Squad. At best, it just slows the enemy down, they don't crawl into holes and wait, like you should be. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, CptDirty said:

So I've been going out of my way to create 3 man mortar squad on various maps on pub matches using the calculator....Here are my findings:

 

- Since I'm doing the runs and the 2 other members are manning the mortars, I have to rely on other SL's for targets and corrections. I don't always get observation remarks from SL's on how effective/accurate my mortars are. 

 

- Very often our team were not able to secure the mid cap or put a FOB/HAB within reasonable time which forced me to task my squad with FOB placing duties. Basically cleaning up the mess other SL's did. 

 

- Very often, some server rules prohibit the placement of a mortar FOB very close to main.

 

- Very often even if the mortar FOB is placed relatively close to main, the enemy team will send a squad to try and take it down. Causing my squad to constantly get out of mortars to defend the FOB rendering the mortars offline. 

 

- Only when my team is extremely well organized and properly set FOB/HABs and are controlling the momentum that my mortars are in full effectiveness. Although this doesn't always happen....

 

- Not to mention that HE rounds do not cause the same damage in game as they do in real life. Perhaps for balance or otherwise I'm not quite sure but this is an undeniable fact that HE rounds, upon impact, do not cause enough damage as they should. 

 

Final thoughts: Mortars are easy to handle and deal with, hard to properly implement unless the other SL's are doing their job properly. 

I have also tried running mortar crews, with similar experiences (largely on the QFF servers.) And would say these points here are exactly on the money.

 

I have two suggestions that could assist with mortars:

 

I think implementing a separate "ammo" feature would help this. If memory serves, a mortar takes 80 Ammo to refill 3 rounds? (Even if it doesn't, for sake of argument let's say it does.) 

How about taking the mortar off of the generic ammo requirement and giving it another category of it's own, increase the cost to fire a 3 round barrage, so even if you had a dedicated logi you couldn't keep the fire up continually.  

 

Or simply reduce the range of mortars, forcing mortar FOBs further away from main, thus increasing logi travel time (and therefor exposure to counter attack) and thus reducing the spam function.

 

But the HE damage needs to be MASSIVELY increased. People do not fear the whistle anywhere near as much as they should.

 

Here's hoping for people to fear the rain.

 

Edited by Wonka

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Mortars are like the midgies of Scotland... loads of them suddenly appear, attack in one location, you get the odd bite but if you take cover you wont be touched... but its the annoying noise they make ... 

 

take 3 guys and follow the noise ... then wipe them out .. usually the radio will be right next to the mortars (go figure!)

 

Only time that mortars tend to do a lot of damage is when they are zeroed on a hab or a small compound where its difficult to take cover...

 

Although I would say that the infinity of ammo they have with supply runs does make it more annoying than anything.  Id actually like to see mortars made mobile with limited ammo so you actually have a mortar in the squad similar to the HAT... with artillery support called in off map... 

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Mortars are great when there is teamwork behind it. And next to nothing when there is no teamwork.

 

A spotter, a logi run, an SL and shooters. Then they can rain hell and keep suppression for hours. It´s good that so much teamwork gets a reward. if you take links off that chain, the effectivness is reduced. So I think mortars are fine.

 

Just maybe...some cooling time, I don´t know how current mortars do it but I´d like to know how long can the shoot non stop before the barrel heats up too much.

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On 2018-04-11 at 4:06 PM, CptDirty said:

So I've been going out of my way to create 3 man mortar squad on various maps on pub matches using the calculator....Here are my findings:

 

- Since I'm doing the runs and the 2 other members are manning the mortars, I have to rely on other SL's for targets and corrections. I don't always get observation remarks from SL's on how effective/accurate my mortars are. 

 

- Very often our team were not able to secure the mid cap or put a FOB/HAB within reasonable time which forced me to task my squad with FOB placing duties. Basically cleaning up the mess other SL's did. 

 

- Very often, some server rules prohibit the placement of a mortar FOB very close to main.

 

- Very often even if the mortar FOB is placed relatively close to main, the enemy team will send a squad to try and take it down. Causing my squad to constantly get out of mortars to defend the FOB rendering the mortars offline. 

 

- Only when my team is extremely well organized and properly set FOB/HABs and are controlling the momentum that my mortars are in full effectiveness. Although this doesn't always happen....

 

- Not to mention that HE rounds do not cause the same damage in game as they do in real life. Perhaps for balance or otherwise I'm not quite sure but this is an undeniable fact that HE rounds, upon impact, do not cause enough damage as they should. 

 

Final thoughts: Mortars are easy to handle and deal with, hard to properly implement unless the other SL's are doing their job properly. 

A couple of tips if you want to improve your performance:

 

1. man one of the tubes yourself, having access to SL comms is useful for targeting.

2. don't rely on having your team spot for you, or having a spotter at all. your entire team acts as a spotter if you simply look at the map.

a lot of stationary dots on the map? that means a wiped squad with enemies about to move over them. barrage!
you are holding a flag with friendlies all around it, but one angle is void of allies? barrage!

you can see a lot of friendly dots looking in the same direction, but aren't moving very quickly? barrage in front of them.

3. always, always, always walk your barrage. even when shelling HAB's you want to be spreading your barrage around it to catch fleeing soldiers.

 

I can not stress the second point enough. if you only fire when other players are giving you targets you will be sitting around doing shit all for most of the time and be a non-factor.

 

Agreed on most other points, except the damage section.

The damage radius of mortars are in fact huge, but the issue is that the damage is blocked by the smallest gravel. if you check the damage done on completely flag ground (i.e. Narva roads) you will see that you are heavily damaged from even 15m away from the impact point. 

 

In my opinion mortars are way too ineffective for the average user and needs to be buffed for them. You don't want to buff mortars for the best users however, I'm already a power factor that needs to be dealt with as it is. 

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6 hours ago, Kylen said:

A couple of tips if you want to improve your performance:

My findings were a handful of public matches with random people. Playing with random people VS playing with a known group are two completely different things.

6 hours ago, Kylen said:

In my opinion mortars are way too ineffective for the average user and needs to be buffed for them. You don't want to buff mortars for the best users however

And how do you plan on doing this?

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On 2018-04-13 at 2:46 PM, CptDirty said:

My findings were a handful of public matches with random people. Playing with random people VS playing with a known group are two completely different things.

And how do you plan on doing this?

What makes you think that my suggestions are for anything other than public play? It is because of public players I'm writing the stuff I do. In a known group you can actually trust that your fellow SL's will give you updated targets to some extent. In public play you need to be very independent of them.

My experience with tubes is more than a 100 pub rounds, (along with a dozen or so competitive games, but I'm not talking about those parts atm.)

 

For starters I would implement some tools like the mortar calculators provide ingame. Every adept user have already started using them and realistically your average player will never be useful without one. For the average user this will help tremendously, but for the more experienced gunners this does almost nothing since they were already using a calculator.

 

Other than that It's hard. But i reckon some ingame tutorial would be pretty helpful for some. I don't claim to hold all the answers on how to make mortars viable, but identifying the issues is a good start i reckon =) 

How do you suggest mortars could be improved?

 

Edited by Kylen

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6 hours ago, Kylen said:

How do you suggest mortars could be improved?

Increase their blast radius to what it normally is in real life with shrapnel provided it is feasible with the engine. I'm not the only one raising this concern...

 

We may have had different experiences, I'm only speaking from what I've noticed in my other post here. Alas, I ditched using the mortars and went back to SL'ing aggressively...

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