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DeckGunner

Medic progression in Squad

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Posted (edited)

Hello!

 

For the past 800-900 hours in Squad, I've only played as the medic. It has been a role requiring balls and skill. Let's see how the role has changed during that time:

 

Back in the day, before vehicles were introduced, medics used to have binoculars. This was fantastic, you stayed behind the main group and acted like a second in command until you were needed in getting players back into the fight. Even with the wounded player's bodies jumping around like rag dolls, this was the absolutely best kit to have in Squad!

 

After a few changes, binos were removed from medics, medic's role became quite linear. You are now there only to revive those lonely souls who have been injured so bad, that the only thing that they can do, is yell F*** you medic, do your f*****g job. Lacking the ability to drag wounded players into safety was trying to be a bit of a burden, but the good thing was, that medics had more smokes than other squad members, thus giving them some cover (while waiting for player dragging to be implemented).

 

And then it was time for the next progression for the medics. Some of the smokes were removed, making the medic role even harder than before. Worry not, I'm always ready to adapt and challenge myself as a medic. You really could feel proud when getting those 30+ revives per game.

 

Then it was time for v10 and v10.1. Believe it or not, there was a way, that the medic role could be made even harder. Now the bandages no longer worked without doing a well trained dance around the wounded player. Once the bandage finally gets applied, it's interesting to notice, that the medic bag doesn't work in the same spot as the bandage. Time for a new well trained dance around the wounded player. The amount of curse words the medics gets to hear also increased. I now have a large vocabulary if I need to tell someone off, so thank you for that fellow Squad players.

 

Question: What will the next step be like in the medic's progression. Only a pistol, two bandages, no smokes and the medic's bag (that may or may not work)?

 

Suggestion: Please go more towards the original medic's role instead of the current model.

Edited by DeckGunner
typos

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Don’t forget taking the full auto m4 away from US MEDICS. Really handy when u need to clear an area to start healing ur squad up , strange idea to handicap the medic that way .. just feels like ur bringing a knife to a gun fight.   

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And the addition of the red dot sight rather that iron signs.

 

My biggest downer is the loss of binoculars. I used to enjoy guiding in my squads fire and reporting to them their success. Squad aims for teamwork and removing binoculars takes away another opertunity for those kind of actions. 

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Posted (edited)

MAKE MEDICS GREAT AGAIN

 

Edited by CptDirty

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Have to add though that there was a moment where they showed dragging during the new animation creation when they did the workshop.. but it never appeared ..

 

medic role pfff... used to play it a lot but now I just try to avoid it.

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I was hoping a lot in dragging ... but the Devs said during the AMA that we will hardly see it with the 1.0. So not before 2019.

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Posted (edited)

Squad needs a vastly more complex medical system. 1, for the game speed to be slowed and 2, to actually enjoy the medic role. Detailing different injuries and the procedures to manage them would shape the game and the medic role into something that would be a lot more interesting. 

 

The current medical system is bland and out dated, no offence. Squad is essentially using the exact same  medical gameplay mechanics as battlefield2. The Gameplay mechanics should be more advanced now or at least a little broader in scope i.e. injuries and medicine.

 

Hopefully we'll see medical mods in the future in tune with the ace medical system for arma, strictly for those that prefer a more hardcore aspect.

 

Although there are people that enjoy the simplified med and revive system I think squad deserves to be much more detailed.

Edited by Devon

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A nice simple improvement would be for a player to use the downed players bandage rather than their own. This will massively boost the number of players willing to help medics and pull the squad together more.

Medics bandages could be reduced or kept as is.

 

An example. Your squad has AR laying down fire and kicking ass. He gets hit so you move to him and the bandage icon appears at close range like it would with a medic, with this on your screen you scroll you own inventory and see it there beside your own bandages, you choose to use his bandage and then bandage him as normal. So he can continue to suppress the enemy. His bandage inventory icon flashes up on his HUD so he can see one bandage is gone.

 

Sharing bandages and ammo between players using some inventory system can come later.

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10 minutes ago, suds said:

An example. Your squad has AR laying down fire and kicking ass. He gets hit so you move to him and the bandage icon appears at close range like it would with a medic, with this on your screen you scroll you own inventory and see it there beside your own bandages, you choose to use his bandage and then bandage him as normal. So he can continue to suppress the enemy. His bandage inventory icon flashes up on his HUD so he can see one bandage is gone.

+1 I like that, a lot. This can be extremely useful to stop SL's bleeding with his own bandages rather than your own to allow the medic enough time to come pick SL up. 

 

This needs to be implemented ASAP!!!

3 hours ago, Devon said:

Although there are people that enjoy the simplified med and revive system I think squad deserves to be much more detailed.

It needs to be detailed but not complex. You don't want to deter people away from the role. 

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1 hour ago, CptDirty said:

It needs to be detailed but not complex. You don't want to deter people away from the role. 

 

I addressed that exactly in my post.

5 hours ago, Devon said:

The Gameplay mechanics should be more advanced now or at least a little broader in scope i.e. injuries and medicine.

 

5 hours ago, Devon said:

Although there are people that enjoy the simplified med and revive system I think squad deserves to be much more detailed.

 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Devon said:

I addressed that exactly in my post.

Lol yeah, you also said:

 

5 hours ago, Devon said:

Squad needs a vastly more complex medical system. 1, for the game speed to be slowed and 2, to actually enjoy the medic role. Detailing different injuries and the procedures to manage them would shape the game and the medic role into something that would be a lot more interesting. 

^ which sounds to me like a terrible idea....reminds me of:

 

s-l225.jpg

Edited by CptDirty

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18 hours ago, embecmom said:

Have to add though that there was a moment where they showed dragging during the new animation creation when they did the workshop.. but it never appeared ..

 

medic role pfff... used to play it a lot but now I just try to avoid it.

Yep, same. I avoid it like the plague now, and I used to play it 75% of the time. 

 

Binos were great, more smokes were helpful, I'd love to be able to use bandages off of other players, I'd like to see that for ALL roles. 

 

The broken bandage dance was the last straw for me, crawl up to a wounded player in a firefight behind cover and now find it impossible to heal them without being forced to crouch and circle around looking for the magic spot. No thanks. 

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Yes you are right its more frustrating now then before i curse a lot more and stuff.

But that will not stop me play it if the squad needs it.Better to have some good medic then make someone be a medic thats new or afraid to rush in and save some playmate i hate that evem more then broken medic system now.

And so many times i had more kills as a medic then some ordinary rifleman's in my squad and dont worry i had a lot of revives too i was doing my job.   

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I just like to put it out there that the burst weapons in this game sucks and that is the main thing that bothers me when playin medic or AT.

If I shoot an enemy 3 times in the chest on single fire mode, I kill him. If I burst shoot (3 shots) his chets, he doesn't die. That's just annoying af!

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On 26/03/2018 at 4:46 PM, CptDirty said:

Lol yeah, you also said:

 

^ which sounds to me like a terrible idea....reminds me of:

 

s-l225.jpg

kinda what were doing now trying to find the funny bone to heal!

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I takes 45-60 seconds to spawn on HAB-RP. It also takes 2 minutes for a medic to revive you.

 

Give up button is your friend.

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7 hours ago, Sekonder said:

I takes 45-60 seconds to spawn on HAB-RP. It also takes 2 minutes for a medic to revive you.

 

Give up button is your friend.

You're a horrible player with that kind of talk, encouraging people to waste tickets instead of waiting for a medic.

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I'm definitely a medic player, have been since I first played Battlefield 2.  I love the role and the responsibility it carries.

 

However, in squad, I cannot disagree with most of the above.

 

The "glitch" of finding the sweet spot to bandage then use the bag on is an utter pain in the ass.  The amount of times I have been shot because I have spent the last 5-10 seconds running around a player is... well I'm sure you guys know.

 

The other massive glitch which has resulted in many deaths of patients is the "Jump-a-floor-glitch".  Being new, I'm not sure if this is new or not?  But when I revive someone on the first floor of a building and watch as they "respawn" back in on the floor above... or worse, the roof.  I know this is probably being fixed, but I just wanted to throw a mention in.

 

I have to agree with the Burst fire weapon for the US.  It doesn't make sense on a Medic to me.  9/10 you are going into the mix to bring aid, so having a fully automatic weapon makes more sense.  

 

+1 for adding a drag mechanic to the game.  Good lord above that would be an option worth adding to any player.  Drag your team mate inside and wait for a medic.  Win win.

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9 hours ago, Ceceli said:

You're a horrible player with that kind of talk, encouraging people to waste tickets instead of waiting for a medic.

But he is right though, its simpler just to give up than stay to be healed especially at the start of the game.  Medic role in saving lives might save the equivalent of one striker in the whole match across the squads... 30 tickets ...  there has to be a better reason for having a medic role (other than the last stand get the SL up to place a rally).. you might actually do better without a medic as you have 9 guys concentrating on the fight rather than 1 or 2 covering and 2 healing... 

 

Medic should perhaps be the one placing the rallies rather than the SL this would make them very important and people want to keep them alive plus theywould have to be taken as part of the squad.   revives should pool tickets with the squad not the team, as ive said before its very frustrating to have 10 or so heals in the squad for some other squad to waste a logi run or vehicle or lose an armoured vehicle at the end of the game..feels like you wasted that time.. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, embecmom said:

Medic should perhaps be the one placing the rallies rather than the SL

revives should pool tickets with the squad not the team,
 


Yeah like for example, a SL + 1 other person would drop a rally with a number of spawns of what 1/3 of the squad size is, no rally for 2 man squads. 
9 man squad = 3 spawns on rally
6 man squad = 2 spawns on rally etc

To get a full rally(squad size) you'd need a SL + 1 + 1/3(of the squad)
9 man squad; SL + 1 + 3 = 9 spawn rally
6 man squad; SL + 1 + 2 = 6 spawns

When the squad size isn't divisible by 3 you just round it up or down. So you get 3 groups
3 and 4       with 1 spawn for small rally(sRP) and 2 people for full rally(fRP)
5, 6 and 7   with 2 spawns for sRP and 4 people for fRP
8 and 9       with 3 spawns for sRP and 6 people for fRP

And then every revive adds a respawn to the rally. For example you could drop a 3 spawn rally and as long as your medics revive 6 people you could easily shake off a squad wipe.
Whereas if you dropped a 3 spawn rally and then 6 of you die(dead dead) your only option is to drop a 3 spawn rally again.

Throw in the old system of losing a ticket if you get incapacitated, though make it so it only happens when an enemy does it to you, and then set the cost of giving up or bleeding out completely(dead dead) to 10 tickets and you have a pretty good incentive for staying alive and/or getting revived.

And since getting a bigger rally would be an incentive to make bigger squads, rather than small ones, you could even loosen up the balance for kit unlocking and make more of them team limited rather than squadsize limited - since that was one of the original reasons for it.

 

Quote

We want to encourage the formation of bigger squads, by both rewarding the SL and the squad members with more options and available kit. 


 


edit: missing words

Edited by Peerun

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This is true, the effect of revives is pretty negligible in the overall ticket cost scheme of things, it's rare to see a medic get 20 revives in a match. On the other hand, the effect of a revive can be far more important that just the ticket cost, be it reviving a SL, so you can drop a new rally, or revive a few players who turn the tide when you are losing a cap or FOB.

 

Good idea to have revives add tickets back, either to the team pool, or the squads rally, either on a one to one basis, or two for one. I think nerfing rallys with a longer cooldown would keep the endless spawn thing under control, as well as making the medic more valuable. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, LugNut said:

This is true, the effect of revives is pretty negligible in the overall ticket cost scheme of things, it's rare to see a medic get 20 revives in a match. On the other hand, the effect of a revive can be far more important that just the ticket cost, be it reviving a SL, so you can drop a new rally, or revive a few players who turn the tide when you are losing a cap or FOB.


True, but it's kindof vague and not really rooted in the game mechanics - just something that can happen.

 

4 hours ago, LugNut said:

Good idea to have revives add tickets back, either to the team pool, or the squads rally, either on a one to one basis, or two for one. I think nerfing rallys with a longer cooldown would keep the endless spawn thing under control, as well as making the medic more valuable. 


Well that's how it already works unless I am wrong. You get incapacitated, you have about two minutes to bleed out and lose a ticket. If you get revived you get one minute until you can get into that state of chance again, otherwise you just blow out instantly and the ticket with you.

(Not sure what you mean by two for one, if it's that you always lose one ticket but can save the other or you get one additional for each revive. The former is how it used to be I beleive, the latter, well, the latter doesn't make sense as you'd just keep farming tickets. So it must be the first one.)


It actually punishes revives in a way when you think about it.
For two minutes you are 100% guaranteed not to lose a ticket.
After that you either lost the ticket already or you now have a 50/50 chance of losing that ticket instantly.

The process is mind boggling.

You get incapacitated and you have only 2 real options, none of which are very good and none which are really under your control.
1. You get revived within 20 seconds and your chances of dying on the spot and having to wait the full respawn timer are pretty high
2. You get revived around the 1 minute mark, at which point the area is hopefully clear, but you might aswell have respawned and gotten back in that time. Not to mention that you still carry that additional 1 minute curse on you threatening you with instadeath.

In this way it's really a zero sum game for the player vs the medic ie the team, and it really only comes down to the "moral compass" or "patience" or "whatever" of the player whether to give up or wait for a revive, because the only tangible difference between the two alternatives is 1 single ticket. A single ticket. Think about that.

Obviously there are situations where not giving up is absolutely crucial, but they are just that: situations. One moment the ticket that you carry has almost no weight and then another minute the potential of that 1 entity of your character taking part in a process, like setting a rally, is the most significant thing. Of course people get salty.
Because new players get confused by the game. It's like learning irregular verbs. One time it's this way, then it's like this again.
 
Death is not an ever-present threat. It's not even a threat in many cases, sometimes you'd rather respawn somewhere than have to walk. It's not intuitive.
If it wasn't so easy, maybe transport vehicles would actually serve a real purpose.
Medics are an altogether auxiliary role in the game, precisely because they get any real use about 12% of the time. The other 88% being either kinda convenient or really annoying.

As far as actual changes to the medic features/systems etc, I think the biggest factor would be to make the medic relevant 100% of the time or as much as possible, anyway.
Self-patched wounds could start bleeding again, low HP would limit you in some way(e.g. stamina, sway), the already mentioned ticket rebalancing. That sort of thing.

Personally I get revived maybe 3-5 times in a round on average, only one of those being a crucial rather than convenience revive. I don't see a medic as a useful class, it's just another rifleman. In the current game, I would rather have one player who is able to cover me than two players playing medics.

Edited by Peerun

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