Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Devil_Inside

Rework "Focus" mode

Recommended Posts

I'm new at this game, but I have played a lot of other realistic games before, such as Arma and RedOrchestra series.

Squad feels like a really great game, but the game's "Focus" mechanics really bothers me, and I feel like there is so much potential to improve the game by changing just this one thing.

1. Zoom. I know there is a group of people that refuse to understand the real purpose of zoom because "bionic eye". I'm part of the group that feels that zoom is essential to present the game in a realistic way. It is essential to be able to properly assess distances and engage in combat. Squad offers so much potential with it's large viewing distances, please don't undermine it with poor zoom implementation. Right now there seems to be 2 problems with zoom:

  1.  It feels that the game doesn't zoom-in enough. Whatever your FOV slider in the game is, whenever you "focus", your FOV should change so that a person at 100m on your screen is the same size as a person at 100m in real life. This will allow you to notice and engage enemies at the right time, as well as properly assess distances and correct for target distance and target speed.
  2. Zoom shouldn't be time limited. The game shouldn't zoom-out when you run out of breath, because zooming-in isn't "focusing your eyes to see better", it's "looking at the world at a realistic scale". It should not be linked to breathing. It is extremely annoying right now.

2. Holding Breath. Red Orchestra 2 has a really great mechanic for "holding breath". Instead of stopping breathing for a short time when pressing a button, your character goes into "controlled breathing mode". In this mode the character stabilizes his breathing, making longer pauses in between inhaling and exhaling for you to make the shot. This works so much better than the current Squad implementation. It allows you to have better control of your gun without unrealistically reducing sway. You just have to time your shots better. This breathing mode also adds a lot of options to realistically reduce it's effect: you can't properly control breathing after a long sprint, when your stamina is low, or when you're receiving heavy enemy fire (suppression).

 

TLDR: Change "Focus" mode so that zooming is done to a realistic level (1:1 scale with real world) and is not linked to breathing. Change breathing from "holding breath" to "controlled breathing".

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has been discussed to death here, but I liked the way your suggestions handled the issue, so a thumbs up for you B|

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/23/2018 at 7:15 AM, Devil_Inside said:

 It feels that the game doesn't zoom-in enough. Whatever your FOV slider in the game is, whenever you "focus", your FOV should change so that a person at 100m on your screen is the same size as a person at 100m in real life. This will allow you to notice and engage enemies at the right time, as well as properly assess distances and correct for target distance and target speed.

 


I could just be too tired, but I don't understand what you mean by this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with you. Looking through pixels is not the same as looking around in real life. Thats why its necessery to compensate with zoom. Thats why (and simple ballistics) stationary HMGs are almost useless. When in real life they can engage effectively on long range especially M2 fifty. But these arcade kitties can't understand that, and their noise is louder then reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Fosty said:


I could just be too tired, but I don't understand what you mean by this.

<story time>

Humans have a pretty wide field-of-view(FOV), around 180-200 degrees.

Now imagine that the monitor in front of you is a window through which you look into the real world. How much of the world would you actually see? Your field-of-view would be EXTREMELY limited, like tunnel vision.

In games, your monitor IS your window through which you look into the virtual world. You don't have peripheral vision besides your monitor, which makes your field-of-view in games extremely limited as well. To fix this, game developers are increasing the original field-of-view to more appropriate values by zooming-out. Some games have FOV sliders, which allow you to increase your FOV even more, which actually zooms-out even more.

 

What happens when you zoom-out? Your field-of-view widens, but everything on your screen becomes smaller. Sometimes so small that you can't properly see or aim at relatively small distances. This is where games started adding the "Zoom-In" functionality when you aim down the sight. In reality though, it's not actually "zooming-in", it's restoring the original, realistic field-of-view. At this realistic field-of-view, all objects in game are at realistic scales. If you're looking at an in-game human model standing at a distance of 30m, your brain can instantly recognize the scale and assess the distance. In games such as Squad, this is paramount.

 

This is what a lot of people don't understand. In games, you're not "zooming-in" like a robot when you aim, you're actually restoring the original, realistic field-of-view, from an unrealistically zoomed-out state, which was added as compromise until we get monitors large enough to not require any fiddling with zoom whatsoever.

 

People need to understand this, it's not "focusing" your eyes to see better, it's not cybernetic-eye-zoom. It's restoring proper FOV. Until we get super large monitors, there is no other way to deal with this, but having 2 fields-of-view (zoom levels), a wide one for navigation and a narrow one (the realistic one of the two) for aiming and shooting.

</end of story>

 

I feel that the game doesn't "zoom-in" enough, aka, it doesn't restore the proper, realistic FOV (correct me if I'm wrong). I also think that there should be no limitation on your ability to "zoom-in". I think for a game such as Squad, the current "focus mode" is unacceptable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see what you mean, but the zoom in Arma feels unnatural to me. Red Orchestra was a bit better if I recall correctly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What exactly feels unnatural? The amount of zoom?

But doesn't it feel more unnatural when you shoot at someone, that's seems to be like 200m away, when in reality he's no more than 100m away?

I mean in real life AK-74 can be shot effectively at a single target up to 500 meters away. In the game targets are so small that at 200-300 meters you shoot at mere pixels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Devil_Inside said:

I mean in real life AK-74 can be shot effectively at a single target up to 500 meters away. In the game targets are so small that at 200-300 meters you shoot at mere pixels.

You also have to take into consideration map size, terrain and engine limitations. It won't be far fetched to implement the same (ridiculous, in my opinion) zoom effect that ARMA III has but then the maps would have to be bigger in order to accommodate. To the best of my knowledge this is not OWI's intentions as they're not planning on readjusting their maps to fit these long range engagement tools. Gathering all available information we can see (pun intended) that:

 

- Sniper role will not be implemented.

- Player-controlled fixed wing aircraft will not be implemented as per the AMA.

- Artillery will not be implemented, instead we have mortars. 

- Not all classes have optics. 

 

The above mentioned are basically breadcrumbs that leads me to believe that the overall intention of OWI is to make vanilla squad maps big enough to fit multiple caps but limit the longest possible engagement between them. This is a double edged sword because they're essentially forcing both opposing forces to fight on roughly 40% map area whereas the other 60% is just open road with little to no significant tactical advantage other than a road connecting one cap to another. This was addressed in the AMA but the solution is not zoom but rather different game modes. 

 

Just take a look yourself fire up any map and try to even see if you can accurately engage targets that are 3 or more flags away. You'll notice uneven terrain, trees, mountains, buildings, etc...acting as physical barriers forcing players to move...Just an observation (pun intended).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, CptDirty said:

You also have to take into consideration map size, terrain and engine limitations. It won't be far fetched to implement the same (ridiculous, in my opinion) zoom effect that ARMA III has but then the maps would have to be bigger in order to accommodate. To the best of my knowledge this is not OWI's intentions as they're not planning on readjusting their maps to fit these long range engagement tools. 

...

Just take a look yourself fire up any map and try to even see if you can accurately engage targets that are 3 or more flags away. You'll notice uneven terrain, trees, mountains, buildings, etc...acting as physical barriers forcing players to move...Just an observation (pun intended).

But you're kind of contradicting yourself. Maps don't have to be bigger to accommodate Arma level zoom SPECIFICALLY because there is enough uneven terrain, trees, mountains and buildings to prevent players from easily picking out targets all across the map.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Devil_Inside said:

What exactly feels unnatural? The amount of zoom?

But doesn't it feel more unnatural when you shoot at someone, that's seems to be like 200m away, when in reality he's no more than 100m away?

I mean in real life AK-74 can be shot effectively at a single target up to 500 meters away. In the game targets are so small that at 200-300 meters you shoot at mere pixels.

All I know is that looking down the iron sights of an AK in Arma zoomed in doesn't feel like it does in real life, it's too easy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Devil_Inside said:

But you're kind of contradicting yourself. Maps don't have to be bigger to accommodate Arma level zoom SPECIFICALLY because there is enough uneven terrain, trees, mountains and buildings to prevent players from easily picking out targets all across the map.

ehh no, because we both agree that engagements in squad are happening on concentrated areas of the map then we can presume that an ARMA III level zoom in such engagements will deter people from working together in order to neutralize those threats. Spotting with binos and directing AR/Grenadier fire is what I mean. 

 

Put it this way, would you want the same zoom effect on your gun's optic as the SL currently has with his binoculars? This is where OWI have done a phenomenal job by reducing the overall draw distance for players and equipping only a select few with proper tools to help out the squad/team in such long range engagements. 

 

Simply put, they are forcing people to work together through the engine, maps, limited optics, terrain, roles, etc...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, CptDirty said:

ehh no, because we both agree that engagements in squad are happening on concentrated areas of the map then we can presume that an ARMA III level zoom in such engagements will deter people from working together in order to neutralize those threats. Spotting with binos and directing AR/Grenadier fire is what I mean. 

 

Put it this way, would you want the same zoom effect on your gun's optic as the SL currently has with his binoculars? This is where OWI have done a phenomenal job by reducing the overall draw distance for players and equipping only a select few with proper tools to help out the squad/team in such long range engagements. 

 

Simply put, they are forcing people to work together through the engine, maps, limited optics, terrain, roles, etc...

I don't think they have an objective of prioritizing close combat mate, it's just UE4 being really bad at rendering far stuff. They recently added GPMGs and ranging, which is supposed to encourage ranged combat.

 

Anyway, it wouldn't make any sense to favor close combat by making the game pixelated.

 

I think a higher zoom makes sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Vegetal said:

I don't think they have an objective of prioritizing close combat mate, it's just UE4 being really bad at rendering far stuff. They recently added GPMGs and ranging, which is supposed to encourage ranged combat.

 

Anyway, it wouldn't make any sense to favor close combat by making the game pixelated.

This has nothing to do with CQB.

 

Look all I'm saying is that a proper team will need to rely on each other's tools evenly distributed in order to complete the task. Long range engagement being one of them is where the vehicles (CROWS), SL's binoculars, Marksman's optic, indirect fire support, etc come in handy.  This dynamic is what makes squad great because otherwise you'll see infantry not moving their asses to shoot enemies 300 meters +. At some point a compromise must be made to encourage movement and cooperation. 

 

I think that ARMA III zoom has no place in Squad. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, CptDirty said:

This has nothing to do with CQB.

 

Look all I'm saying is that a proper team will need to rely on each other's tools evenly distributed in order to complete the task. Long range engagement being one of them is where the vehicles (CROWS), SL's binoculars, Marksman's optic, indirect fire support, etc come in handy.  This dynamic is what makes squad great because otherwise you'll see infantry not moving their asses to shoot enemies 300 meters +. At some point a compromise must be made to encourage movement and cooperation. 

 

I think that ARMA III zoom has no place in Squad. 

Increasing engagement range would mean smarter movement would be necessary, not lack of movement. The game revolves around territory occupation, there's no way around having to move.

 

Not only there is a place for zoom, it seems to be the only way to make combat halfway realistic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×