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M4 Red Dot Sight is terrible since v10

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Posted (edited)

The red dot sight on the M4 now is terrible. It is right on top of the front sight. Which only makes the sight effectively a wider rear aperture sight. In addition, the dot is huge and blurry/out of focus which makes it even bigger. It is so bad you can't see what are you shooting at, because the dot covers up the target. What is even worse, that you can't see the bullet drop because the front sight covers it up. The us team right now using only blind fire. Right now any weapon with any sight is better than an M4 with a Red Dot. Making it the way it was in V9 would be the perfect fix. With an option to set a preferred zero/ranging when spawning in. If you set an M4 red dot to for example 200m zero, it would be set to 200m, and the player wouldn't be able to change it on the fly, only when at ammo box, or respawning. For weapons with iron sights, the preferred zero would be the default zero, with the ability to adjust up and down, just like now. 

I am in a Squad clan, where every person has his role, now one of our medics asked our SL to change his role only on the US side, because he can't use the horrible red dot. So I am not the only one who think the red dot is bad. At least give an option for the US to have M4s with irons with any class. 

 

For those who are saying that the red dot is realistic right now, i disagree. When shooting with a red dot, people have both eyes open, so it is much different then what it is like in the game. Shooting with bot eyes open is impossible to render in games (maybe not with a VR headset). The red dot is now rendered as if you were shooting with one eye closed, which defeats the purpose of the red dot (easier aiming). 

I am a good player, but I have a hard time using the red dot. Example from yesterday night. I have played 4 rounds with my clan.

1st match, INS medic 12 kills,2 deaths,13 injures

2nd match US ACOG Rifleman 29kills, 10 deaths, 31 kills (we all died a lot because the other team was really good. especially for a team with public players)

3rd match US LAT 7 kills, 5 deaths, 8 injures. This is with the M4 red dot.

4th match RUS LAT 35 kills, 6 deaths, 40+ injures. 

 

Edited by Font

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Yeah its crap.

Also shoots off center and has more initial sway when going ADS compared to ironsights.

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It also is up too high. Try in the firing range, shoot at a close target and see where your round falls. Even at close range, the bullet hits lower then where you are aiming. Incredibly annoying when you're trying to shoot someone of a roof.

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I believe (Could be mistaken) that the reason for the front sight to still be attached while using the red dot is that in case the red dot was to die or take damage (thus killing it) you still had a sight to use in case of a firefight if you cannot get it repaired right there and then. However, that doesn't happen in-game, so I wouldn't mind having it removed for usability purposes even tho it's not 100000% accurate to the smallest possible measurement. Tbh, I would only use the red dot M4 if I was running medic, if i'm going rifleman I would either snatch up an ACOG M4 for medium/long range engagements or use the M4A1 + Vertical Grip because that thing is a beast for close/mid range. Either that or i'd be going Grenadier (Other roles too, but just M4 w/out RD examples).

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Posted (edited)

I don’t mind the front post if that’s how things are really done in the army, but the big, blurry dot is awful. I also agree that it seems to shoot even lower than n v9.

Edited by fatalsushi

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I really hope in future devs give us possibility to choose between iron sight or red dot

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Not a fan of the change in V10..... I'd honestly rather just have IS on the M4

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11 hours ago, Lightly_Salted said:

I believe (Could be mistaken) that the reason for the front sight to still be attached while using the red dot is that in case the red dot was to die or take damage (thus killing it) you still had a sight to use in case of a firefight if you cannot get it repaired right there and then. However, that doesn't happen in-game, so I wouldn't mind having it removed for usability purposes even tho it's not 100000% accurate to the smallest possible measurement. Tbh, I would only use the red dot M4 if I was running medic, if i'm going rifleman I would either snatch up an ACOG M4 for medium/long range engagements or use the M4A1 + Vertical Grip because that thing is a beast for close/mid range. Either that or i'd be going Grenadier (Other roles too, but just M4 w/out RD examples).

AFAIK, the front sight isn't removable because it's an integral part with the gas system.

 

And yeah, the red dot is awful in v10. It's hard for me to understand why they thought it was a good idea.

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I'll teach you guys a few things. First of all though, with the spacer you should have the dot a bit above the front sight post. It shouldn't 'lollipop' on top.

14 hours ago, oTec said:

It also is up too high. Try in the firing range, shoot at a close target and see where your round falls. Even at close range, the bullet hits lower then where you are aiming. Incredibly annoying when you're trying to shoot someone of a roof.

What you're looking at is 'height over bore'. Optics on rifles are always going to be raised up a little above where the bullet exits the rifle. On my T97 I have an extreme difference to show you an example. This is what you're experiencing ingame with the M68. The closer you are, the more noticable the difference.

F4cvDty.jpg

 

2 hours ago, Vegetal said:

AFAIK, the front sight isn't removable because it's an integral part with the gas system.

That's correct. The gas block is what the front sight post is mounted on. If you wanted one without you'd have to get a gas block specifically without it.

 

c3Hf2Gt.gif

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On 16/03/2018 at 8:41 PM, Vegetal said:

AFAIK, the front sight isn't removable because it's an integral part with the gas system.

 

And yeah, the red dot is awful in v10. It's hard for me to understand why they thought it was a good idea.

 

On 16/03/2018 at 11:13 PM, Rybec said:

I'll teach you guys a few things. First of all though, with the spacer you should have the dot a bit above the front sight post. It shouldn't 'lollipop' on top.

What you're looking at is 'height over bore'. Optics on rifles are always going to be raised up a little above where the bullet exits the rifle. On my T97 I have an extreme difference to show you an example. This is what you're experiencing ingame with the M68. The closer you are, the more noticable the difference.

F4cvDty.jpg

 

That's correct. The gas block is what the front sight post is mounted on. If you wanted one without you'd have to get a gas block specifically without it.

 

c3Hf2Gt.gif

Huh, interesting to know, thanks!

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On 3/16/2018 at 5:33 AM, Lightly_Salted said:

I believe (Could be mistaken) that the reason for the front sight to still be attached while using the red dot is that in case the red dot was to die or take damage (thus killing it) you still had a sight to use in case of a firefight if you cannot get it repaired right there and then. However, that doesn't happen in-game, so I wouldn't mind having it removed for usability purposes even tho it's not 100000% accurate to the smallest possible measurement. Tbh, I would only use the red dot M4 if I was running medic, if i'm going rifleman I would either snatch up an ACOG M4 for medium/long range engagements or use the M4A1 + Vertical Grip because that thing is a beast for close/mid range. Either that or i'd be going Grenadier (Other roles too, but just M4 w/out RD examples).

I've only ever lollipopped a red dot to zero my rifle. That was it. 

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On 3/17/2018 at 12:13 AM, Rybec said:

That's correct. The gas block is what the front sight post is mounted on. If you wanted one without you'd have to get a gas block specifically without it.

To be fair though, a new gas block without the front sight costs around US$20 and can be installed within a few minutes with the right tools.

 

USSOCOM is doing that with their SOPMOD Block II's:

us_army_73957700.jpg

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I'd rather see a gas block without sights too for the red dot equipped M4's, just some picatinny rail on it, folded BUIS maybe.

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Tl;dr of thread: US player complaining that US ironsinghts are only slightly better than everyone else's in V10, as opposed to being God-tier like in V9.

 

Added some random stats how he went 12-2 with the AKM and 7-5 with M4 "that one time" (lol, M4 has twice the DPS of AKM up close and roughly 3x at distance).

 

Git gud. If people can get kills with AKMs, you should be able to get em with M4s, which still have much lower recoil and much higher ROF, and high-contrast sight. Yeh I can see how M4 red dot seems a letdown after the V9 sniper version, but remember that slower movement of V10 favors the superior American guns.

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5 hours ago, Gopblin said:

Tl;dr of thread: US player complaining that US ironsinghts are only slightly better than everyone else's in V10, as opposed to being God-tier like in V9.

 

Added some random stats how he went 12-2 with the AKM and 7-5 with M4 "that one time" (lol, M4 has twice the DPS of AKM up close and roughly 3x at distance).

 

Git gud. If people can get kills with AKMs, you should be able to get em with M4s, which still have much lower recoil and much higher ROF, and high-contrast sight. Yeh I can see how M4 red dot seems a letdown after the V9 sniper version, but remember that slower movement of V10 favors the superior American guns.

You're interpreting it wrong. He's understandably upset because it's not correct.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/21/2018 at 11:10 PM, Gopblin said:

Tl;dr of thread: US player complaining that US ironsinghts are only slightly better than everyone else's in V10, as opposed to being God-tier like in V9.

 

Added some random stats how he went 12-2 with the AKM and 7-5 with M4 "that one time" (lol, M4 has twice the DPS of AKM up close and roughly 3x at distance).

 

Git gud. If people can get kills with AKMs, you should be able to get em with M4s, which still have much lower recoil and much higher ROF, and high-contrast sight. Yeh I can see how M4 red dot seems a letdown after the V9 sniper version, but remember that slower movement of V10 favors the superior American guns.

The whole point of this thread was literally the opposite. The red dot is not only slightly better than an iron sight on any weapon. The Red dot is unusable. The irons are better. Which would be fine if all of the classes would get an Iron sight option. Not just the rifleman. If you are a medic or a LAT in the US team you ar stuck with an almost unusable weapon. As of V10 I would take a 5.45 AK with irons anytime over an M4 with a red dot.

 

EDIT: OK unusable may not be the best word. Lets say that the M4 with a red dot has a lot less precision, and blocks your view too much.

Edited by Font

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Red dot has no ranging. As we have a lot more bullet drop in v10, that balances things out nicely. Current red dot is crap and needs to go.

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Posted (edited)

There is barely anyone mentioning it, so I would like to add that the V10 M4 has a wired ADS sway pattern  that is uncorrelated with stamina. Normally after your every spawn, you use some of you stamina by sprinting and then stop and aim, there would be a 5s-long heavy sway. However if you do the same procedure right afterwards and the sway would be much much slighter, even if the stamina was the same. As such, it is always better for me to do the sprint-aim after every spawn so that my aim would be much stable when encountering enemeis.

Edited by Noobgamer

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