Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
v76

Cock Block Rush

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

The staging timer and non-sequence cap blocking has done little to stop the cock block rush gameplay (which there is no other tactic to use now, you must cock block or lose and imo thats a shit way to have to play a game like this)

 

We need to make vehicles to be held in at staging for at least 2 minutes longer than infantry, I imagine the only players that will object are the ones that never played before vehicles because Squad was a lot more team focused and true to real life movement and tactics before the vehicle cock block gameplay.

 

As it is now its a 50/50... if you just hit a tree at mission start or get 2 vehicles tangled up (no shit it shouldn't happen but you think every one of the 78 players is playing correctly) and are delayed 20 seconds that can easily mean the game... how the fuk is that realistic or tacticool!?

 

Please OWI look at fixing what has become risky, unrealistic gameplay to rush to block caps that has ruined accurate, realistic and tactical gameplay like pre vehicles.... at least try holding vehicles in staging for at least 120 seconds longer

Edited by v76

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I agree to a degree. 95% of the time  the first 10 min of every round decide who wins or who loses. the tickets bleed 2 fast to come back from a enemy rush early in the game and so you must counter rush or you lose plan and simple.

everytime i squad lead i have to take a logi to rush the central cap zone and set up a fob to make sure it is rushed and secured early or my team usally loses. even if we start the comeback we run out of tickets before we can fully turn the tide.

 

it just gets boring af after a while.

 

they need to give more love to insurgency add civilians with negative intel when killed and make it more work to make the cache pop up on the map. cause that shit is way to fast pace for anyone to want to play it...(this was my fav game mode in pr aswel)

 

hopefully they make insurgency slower paced and when they come out with the new game mode with random areas to secure it will not be a flop cause AAS is getting old.

 

AAS need's new layers like thisminimap.jpg

 

at least 3 paths down the intire map so if they rush one you can push another...the map layers are to linear.\

 

Squads new game mode coming soon i hope tcgmp.png

Edited by ♠DEG♠

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, ♠DEG♠ said:

I agree to a degree. 95% of the time  the first 10 min of every round decide who wins or who loses. the tickets bleed 2 fast to come back from a enemy rush early in the game and so you must counter rush or you lose plan and simple.

everytime i squad lead i have to take a logi to rush the central cap zone and set up a fob to make sure it is rushed and secured early or my team usally loses. even if we start the comeback we run out of tickets before we can fully turn the tide.

 

it just gets boring af after a while.

 

they need to give more love to insurgency add civilians with negative intel when killed and make it more work to make the cache pop up on the map. cause that shit is way to fast pace for anyone to want to play it...(this was my fav game mode in pr aswel)

 

hopefully they make insurgency slower paced and when they come out with the new game mode with random areas to secure it will not be a flop cause AAS is getting old.

 

AAS need's new layers like thisminimap.jpg

 

at least 3 paths down the intire map so if they rush one you can push another...the map layers are to linear.\

 

Squads new game mode coming soon i hope tcgmp.png

That the problem.... its just the same rush every map and you are forced to play this way or lose and as you said it gets really boring, for me its that its very much less about skills and tactics and becomes a dice roll of who secures the centre cap first and if you happen to be delayed 20 seconds for whatever reason you'll likely lose.

 

I really do like the look of the new game mode, very promising.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would just remove the ****ing bleed mechanic.

So the enemy can still use it's rush tactics (legit tactic to use) and I would actual have options how to deal with it. Also rush, build a fob on the second flag, flank with my squad and so on. 

Also with this maps don't have to be symmetrical and could be interesting. 

This rush meta at the moment is boring as hell. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Axel said:

I would just remove the ****ing bleed mechanic.

So the enemy can still use it's rush tactics (legit tactic to use) and I would actual have options how to deal with it. Also rush, build a fob on the second flag, flank with my squad and so on. 

Also with this maps don't have to be symmetrical and could be interesting. 

This rush meta at the moment is boring as hell. 

Its only considered a 'legit' tactic because thats what everyone has gotten use to doing since vehicles and there is zero option to do otherwise unless you want to start at a massive disadvantage and most likely fail/lose.

 

Also agree with removing the bleed mechanic, with it you are destined to fail once you are pushed back as the bleed rarely allows for those great comebacks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yea im not knocking the tactic... i rush... the problem is you have to do it or lose....every damn map over and over.

it does just make the game boring. its strategy you gota stay competitive on the battlefield i just wish the map layers/maps/game modes would change it up a bit and make it not a viable thing every single damn game lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i thought "the rush" was supposed to be 'fixed' (non-contestable caps can be taken regardless of enemies in the zone) ... or is it because there is still a field full of neutral caps (promoting the rush anyway) ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i dont know why but every round is a super duper rush towards the " MAIN " flag .... like tunnel in the belaya ...

i dont know why its happen ... 

but its something that almost never happen in PR ..

so in the end of the day almost every map no matter how big she is will end up in small area of fight ...

i really dont know why this is happening 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly wouldn't mind if they made it so that you can't advance your vehicles past the farthest capped flag. Once there are 1-2 neutral flags left all the restrictions are lifted. 

 

Obviously players on foot won't have this restriction. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, v76 said:

The staging timer and non-sequence cap blocking has done little to stop the cock block rush gameplay

The two are unrelated in essence. 

 

Staging timer was meant to allow the team more flexible briefing and more importantly vehicle assignments. In contrast, the new capping mechanic made it so 1 person from Team A is able to cap a point rushed by Team B. Even if team B has 40 guys on it, person from Team A can cap it just fine if he's not killed. Depending on the map and cap, of course, it's very much doable (and easy if done right) to sneak into the contested/rushed point and take it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The meta wouldn't be so boring if matches were shorter. Right now you kinda know the outcome of the match on the first few minutes, but you have to keep playing regardless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The devs mentioned random AAS, which I assume will mean random caps on a layer. To really fix rushing, you need to eliminate the ability for both sides to see every cap to be fought over. You should be able to only see 2 caps ahead, cap the first and the third appears, cap the second and the fourth appears. If they were random, your choices would be to rush out blindly and try to set up spawns in neutral or enemy territory, (you wouldn't know) and hope your team catches up, or stick together and push as a unit. No more, "I'll rush 5 caps ahead and try to delay the other team outside of their main." 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

yea Rush is just as bad... now its just rush the middle flag and its TDM around it... either as lugnut says... the flag points remain hidden until the previous is capped, (which means they need to be random as people will know the flags on the maps)  which would slow it down... or vehicles are not unlimited and fobs/rallies cannot be placed within a certain distance of the uncapped flag (neutral flag at start) ... meaning that if you do get kicked off it its more difficult to spawn back quickly... and reduce the no. of rallies an SL can place without supplies.  or you make it so the habs are capturable / spawns / rallies slow spawn the nearer the enemy is to them.

Edited by embecmom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎11‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 8:01 AM, virusman said:

i dont know why but every round is a super duper rush towards the " MAIN " flag .... like tunnel in the belaya ...

i dont know why its happen ... 

but its something that almost never happen in PR ..

so in the end of the day almost every map no matter how big she is will end up in small area of fight ...

i really dont know why this is happening 

because the game is so focused on tickets it turns into a death match.. there is no reward/punishment for anything other than losing tickets for a vehicle loss or death.. which no one cares about early game...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

remove Tickets.

remove Player Placeable Spawns.

remove fields-full-of-neutrals.

 

 

 

Edited by LaughingJack
coz spelingz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎11‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 4:35 PM, CptDirty said:

The two are unrelated in essence. 

 

Staging timer was meant to allow the team more flexible briefing and more importantly vehicle assignments. In contrast, the new capping mechanic made it so 1 person from Team A is able to cap a point rushed by Team B. Even if team B has 40 guys on it, person from Team A can cap it just fine if he's not killed. Depending on the map and cap, of course, it's very much doable (and easy if done right) to sneak into the contested/rushed point and take it. 

kinda disagree...  everyone is so organised now that the rush is easier rather than faffing about finding the vehicle... and of course no one really rushes the second to last flag anymore because of the 1 person thing..but no one cares .. they just go for the middle to hold the other team off, allow them to cap then capture ... so it ends up a push pull around the middle flag .. and usually favours the team that gets there first as they will have the opportunity to cap it first....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It goes well deeper than you think and before I continue know that I don't directly or indirectly tell you that I know better and you don't, no, I am simply trying to show you something from a different perspective - My perspective, and its not just Squads perspective from my experience as I am a veteran in Squad but from other stuff I have been part off.

The reason why a squad of 9 men (which is nothing if you consider bigger picture) could do a rush on 1st, 2nd or 3rd flag is because 90% of the time there is no squadleaders that know how to properly utilise and position their men. More on that, the ones they do know how to do this, lack the quality of men, the ones a SL can relly on, to do it. A squad of 9 men can defend a position no matter how many enemies they are facing if:
1.) They are trained and know each other even a little bit.
2.) Have a competent SL
3.) The enemy is coming from only 1 or maximum 2 directions/approaches ie. Enemy SL's are not working together to take a position/flag but are randomly swarming in.
4.) The enemy SL is not using squad assets, grenadiers, GPMG, RPGs, DMR etc.

To know how to properly attack and move on the enemy and at the same time properly use its assets and compliment to other squads movements is an Art. An Art of warfare. And from nearly 1800 hours I played Squad for, I can honestly tell you I cannot count 10 people I've met who fully knows how to do this, not even in my own unit which is not something that I am proud off. 

This is WHY. A squad of 9 men (which is nothing), can rush any position.

There is something else that you must take into consideration when talking about this is, game mechanics and how weapons, movements and bullet ballistics work in the game. But in short, in recent patches its getting alot better in that regard.

If you can't picture and understand what I wrote, it will take you some time to understand it, after you understand how war on the ground works on the bigger picture. Me, myself am still learning, but hands down 90% of people are not capable of doing it, or are restricted by men they are leading. This is in shortest I could explain this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh look this country is empty! lets drive until we find enemies, it is totally safe!

 

Rushing will always work if the map is empty at the start.

 

Add more temporary forward spawns to enable the team to block a rush.

 

For maximum replay-ability add a random Rally point for each squad throughout the map at the start. Allow them to spawn there if the SL wants (need a control). This way the vehicle rushing from main might meet an enemy squad unexpectedly.

 

For kickass mission style play within the AAS gametype you could also dump a vehicle near that rally, simulating a crash or requiring a recovery mission to bring extra assets back to base for your team. eg an empty logi truck or damaged armour with low/no ammo. how about a blackhawk which needs repairs? a crashed heli with a squad stuck behind enemy lines....might be a movie about this....

 

so much to be gained from a map which is populated at the start. disadvantaging a rush is just one. Another big one is that the action will start when the game starts, not 1-2 mins later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/11/2018 at 4:01 AM, virusman said:

i dont know why but every round is a super duper rush towards the " MAIN " flag .... like tunnel in the belaya ...

i dont know why its happen ... 

but its something that almost never happen in PR ..

so in the end of the day almost every map no matter how big she is will end up in small area of fight ...

i really dont know why this is happening 

Yea was pondering this last night in my drunken stupor. Part of it is the FOB building mechanics and requirement for digging down on maps like Belaya or Mestia. The ability and necessity to fortify certain positions quickly on flags that are hard to assault just makes it a nightmare if you aren't there first. Belaya is by far the worst offender and the perfect example of where the META just makes things not fun. Too much emphasis is currently placed on achieving that objective because little else matters. 

 

Only thing I can think of to solve that problem is change resupply mechanics, where and what you can build, and maybe require supplies on the FOB for respawn. Granted some of this will be taken care of by new assets that can blow things to smithereens. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/14/2018 at 7:57 AM, suds said:

Oh look this country is empty! lets drive until we find enemies, it is totally safe!

 

Rushing will always work if the map is empty at the start.

 

Add more temporary forward spawns to enable the team to block a rush.

 

For maximum replay-ability add a random Rally point for each squad throughout the map at the start. Allow them to spawn there if the SL wants (need a control). This way the vehicle rushing from main might meet an enemy squad unexpectedly.

 

For kickass mission style play within the AAS gametype you could also dump a vehicle near that rally, simulating a crash or requiring a recovery mission to bring extra assets back to base for your team. eg an empty logi truck or damaged armour with low/no ammo. how about a blackhawk which needs repairs? a crashed heli with a squad stuck behind enemy lines....might be a movie about this....

 

so much to be gained from a map which is populated at the start. disadvantaging a rush is just one. Another big one is that the action will start when the game starts, not 1-2 mins later.

Good ideas. I'm always in favor of unpredictability, maps where you know exactly where the enemy started, the direction they will be coming from and where they have to go, leads to a simple rush to beat them to the same point. If you were rushing out into the unknown, instead of the known, like now, you'd be forced to be more cautious, communicate more, maybe even * gasp * scout ahead before committing valuable assets to your push. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed make it more unpredictable means people actually have to adjust tactics.. perhaps I'm too long into the game now and its tiresome.. but it just feels a bit linear... in everything... 

 

1) rush middle flag and defend against enemy attack.

2) drop off single guy on flags behind to cap

3) drop fob on flag or in predictable area on map.

4) defend until you find enemy hab.. attack other flags..... or get pushed back

 

rinse repeat...

 

I think there should be other strategic capture points on the maps... that actually impact the way you have to play..

 

  fuel and ammo dumps that give a constant base supply to the fobs / radios of the owning army

capture the enemy side one and it removes supply and ammo every minute

 

field hospital that reduces the ticket bleed of tickets from flag attrition or adds a certain amount of tickets per minute..

Fixed heavy gun position with mortars that remains constant .. 

fixed placed FOB which is cappable by both sides and is only a spawn, no ammo or vehicles... 

 

another idea would be to have to place mini fobs on flags to capture them... rather than the no. of people on the flag the SL needs to place a mini FOB that acts as the capture point and radiates out as the flag is captured, the further and longer on the flag the enemy would not be able to place a rally within that range.  Would also mean people would have to defend the fob and flag , destroy the fob and the flag is immediately neutralized.. enemy then need to place theirs... it would also mean that people need to stick with their SL 

 

certain things outside of pure capture flag areas and meat grinder and fob/rally dropping 

 

also knowing where the enemy is going to come from (their main base) makes it generally a guarantee the direction of the attack or you just know that IED mine boys will head straight towards it... predictable again...  I do think it works better on some maps where there are two starting positions and those should remain for the game.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 3/11/2018 at 4:59 PM, LaughingJack said:

i thought "the rush" was supposed to be 'fixed' (non-contestable caps can be taken regardless of enemies in the zone) ... or is it because there is still a field full of neutral caps (promoting the rush anyway) ?

Thats the issue imo, is neutral caps.... teams need to own all caps all the way to the centre.... rush eliminated and its how nearly all AAS game modes in nearly all game have done it..... why, because it f'king works and owi need to drop the pride and do what other devs did because it works.

Edited by v76

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep ^

 

Which beggers the question: is it simply a hold-over from BF's? (i can't remember, it's been too long).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe AAS was already a rotten system to begin with? I mean, it's linear by DESIGN. If the main flag (center one) is not the one being fought over, then the game is already very predictable. The team who managed to go beyond the main flag will probably win, the rest will be pure grind. It's a stale game mode in essence.

 

So maybe we probably should be looking in another direction entirely, completely different game modes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Vegetal said:

Maybe AAS was already a rotten system to begin with? I mean, it's linear by DESIGN.

Yes it is in fact linear, by Definition, absolutely, but i don't think it is/was a rotten design, or stale, and i'm sure there are others who would agree. I don't think there is such a big problem with linearity, it all comes down to how that linearity is implemented into each map. I've re-created a map with a single-line linearity but physically, on the ground, the centre two bases are the opposite of that, due to position (Novalogics positioning, not mine - can't take credit for the layout ;)).

1 hour ago, Vegetal said:

If the main flag (center one) is not the one being fought over, then the game is already very predictable

I'm confused: if you're not fighting over the centre, and only contestable (unless PAAS - even then you should be playing ALL centres), flag, then the game is very predictable(how so?)? - i must be missing something here.

Dare i say; If players are fighting over non-contestable flag(s), then it would be generally considered that they're not playing it properly.

2 hours ago, Vegetal said:

The team who managed to go beyond the main flag will probably win, the rest will be pure grind.

Probable - certainly possible, but nothing is guaranteed.

Grind for what, in what way? - i'm interested.

2 hours ago, Vegetal said:

So maybe we probably should be looking in another direction entirely, completely different game modes.

I'm sure suggestions would be more than welcome, particularly if they are backed up by some semblance of realistic logic. The worst anyone can reasonably say to you is that they don't like it or some part of it.

 

My-two-cents. Linear is, generally speaking, better than non-linear.

To clarify: IMO and from my experience, non-linear (importantly this means non-AAS) is similar or the same as "conquest" and the like - total mayhem of rushing between disparate/disconnected flags all over the shop, that can be taken by anyone at any time, does nothing for cohesion of the teams or the match as a whole and is a terribly 'arcadey' mode that encourages up-the-guts run&gun and camping.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×