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Cock Block Rush

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By the powers of Hell, arise thread!

 

Sorry to necromance this, but I wanted to use a existing thread and and this seemed to be the one that is not 100% outdated and is still fitting.

 

The problems mentioned are currently my biggest issue I have with the game. Before I get stoned to death, let me say the following.

 

Rushing certainly is a very effective tactic and to I don't think it should be taken out completely. I also see and write this from position and for the average Squad Player. 

 

Currently I see this most of the times:

  1. Map has lets say 7 Capture Points
  2. When the match starts the majority of both teams will rush to what is the fourth or even fifth flag from their perspective
  3. A small part of the other team will capture flags that are closer to their own main base.
  4. Both forward elements collide and you have one firefight within the first couple of minutes
  5. One team wins/looses will loose or win a lot of territory with this.

This is very often where a round is decided, comebacks for the team that lost it are hard and pretty unlikely. The result are rounds that depending on the map and the tickets are over very fast or go on for some more time. This is not very interesting or engaging on both ends of the spectrum. Getting snowballed is maybe fun for a couple of times, but it gets boring fast. There is also a fair chance that you will be one of the players who do the dull work of capturing the flags close to your main base and you will somewhat miss out the defining moments of a round. 

 

As mentioned by others, there is also a problem when rushing fails. The symptoms are a bit different but the result is eventually the same. Rounds that have been decided in a very short amount of time and very slim chances for the other team to make a comeback. In the end it all feels like a bit of a waste of time. Time that could have been a interesting round and not something that is effectively over in 50-10 minutes.

 

Randomized Objectives will also not fix this in my opinion. Players will see in the pre-round phase where the caps are or they will see it when the round starts. It will take just a few seconds and the same thing will happen again. There is also a limited number of positions on which capture zones can make sense. So there will be rushing like this: When caps are A,B and C then we rush this, or when caps are E, F and G then we rush this. The problem lies in the system itself.

 

I hope and do think that persistent ammo will somewhat help against this, since rushing squads will potentially run out of ammo/supplies quick, but I think that it will be a part and not the entire solution to what I see as a problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, MeFirst said:

Randomized Objectives will also not fix this in my opinion. Players will see in the pre-round phase where the caps are or they will see it when the round starts. It will take just a few seconds and the same thing will happen again. There is also a limited number of positions on which capture zones can make sense. So there will be rushing like this: When caps are A,B and C then we rush this, or when caps are E, F and G then we rush this. The problem lies in the system itself.

It's my opinion that until the v9 mechanics are brought back that allow for emergent and organic gameplay the average match will continue to be a series of linear KOTH/TDM engagements. Randomized flags won't change anything as you've pointed out.

Edited by Zylfrax791

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Have you read what I wrote?

 

Possible "random" cap points will always follow some rules. Those rules or parameters will most likely be.

 

1. Distance and Azimuth from the next flag. 

2. Structures & Landmarks on the map.

 

This alone will narrow it down a lot. The system you mention also sounds like a very horrible idea in general. 

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New maybe old idea popped into my tiny head: what if the main bases were located out of map bounds?  And randomly placed outside of map bounds?  And at different lengths to closest flag each round?  The whole idea would then be rush to the closest flag from your base to gain a foothold.  The rush would be the thing and each team would be rushing to a different flag each round.  You couldn't guess which flag was getting rushed by opposing team every round, you would need a commander with a UAV to even try to get that info first.

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As said before, I don't think that rushing should be completely out of the game. It is a valid strategy to me but it is at least right now balanced very poorly and does more damage than good to the average round of Squad. 

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12 hours ago, MeFirst said:

Have you read what I wrote?

 

Possible "random" cap points will always follow some rules. Those rules or parameters will most likely be.

 

1. Distance and Azimuth from the next flag. 

2. Structures & Landmarks on the map.

 

This alone will narrow it down a lot. The system you mention also sounds like a very horrible idea in general. 

yes indeed it will ... but the rush is to a guaranteed location atm and slapping a hab down  (storage for instance).  If the flags are randomized, you will have a 50/50 chance that you are on the right flag, and of course, you may have built a hab on the wrong location.    This does mean however that the flag location that we know of now would need changed on many of the current maps and there are certain maps that perhaps that may be difficult.  

 

I think habs should only be allowed when the previous flag is capped not before so the frontline does shift to encompass the next flag and hab can be placed. .. 

Edited by embecmom

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i wish maps and their layers were designed on real world logic versus 'lets spew some flags here and there.'

 

if theres high ground, youll want to control it.

if there's a main road leading back to your base, you'll want to seize and maintain it.

 

often times in the past my team would capture a flag and focus on sitting on it only to be pinned down from enemy fire from a nearby superior tactical position and i would wonder, why isnt the flag up there, where we would have an actual in-game, geographically superior position to control?

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2 minutes ago, IRONXBAY said:

i wish maps and their layers were designed on real world logic versus 'lets spew some flags here and there.'

 

if theres high ground, youll want to control it.

if there's a main road leading back to your base, you'll want to seize and maintain it.

 

often times in the past my team would capture a flag and focus on sitting on it only to be pinned down from enemy fire from a nearby superior tactical position and i would wonder, why isnt the flag up there, where we would have an actual in-game, geographically superior position to control?

Agreed! I've often wondered, why they don't make the HAB, or (built base(s) as a mechanic) the capture points. This would also give the teams more incentive to protect them and keep them up. In addition, these locations would be truly dynamic as they're player driven. Which would force teams to have patrol units/scouts to search and then plan an attack. Of course, there would have to be some considerable thought into how this works and limitations.   

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41 minutes ago, IRONXBAY said:

i wish maps and their layers were designed on real world logic versus 'lets spew some flags here and there.'

 

if theres high ground, youll want to control it.

if there's a main road leading back to your base, you'll want to seize and maintain it.

 

often times in the past my team would capture a flag and focus on sitting on it only to be pinned down from enemy fire from a nearby superior tactical position and i would wonder, why isnt the flag up there, where we would have an actual in-game, geographically superior position to control?

I think if they were flags then the same thing would happen anyway.. but I agree that it would be good if strategic points on the map could actually become useful rather than just places you pass by to get to the objective, swathes of the maps are redundant bar the odd mortar position.... holding a cross roads / vital junction to stop supplies would be a great tactic or slowing down enemy but most of the time its just a distraction as vehicles just skip through woods and circumvent it..which in essence is probably necessary because if you were able to lock down one junction then the forums would be full of rush comments about taking that road and stopping supplies... at the end of the day though the game is about people wanting to shoot each other so there needs to be an element of funnelling players to a point where there is action flags do that.. I look forward to the frontline game though and if they do separate emplacements from radio/hab this might become a little more of a strategy.

Edited by embecmom

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