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danielritual

when the crewman roles will be added?

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my questions is:

When the crewman roles will be added? We need more organization with assets!
Infantry squads using assets with no responsibility

 

when? any info guys?
 

 

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Indeed! I can not wait for the moment when, in addition to needing 2 competent people on my Squad to get anything done, I will ALSO have to depend on other SLs to get my Squad places, supply my FOBs, and get fire support.


I'm sure this will work TOTALLY FINE in the current state of the community (i.e. when about a third of the players are still hazy on which mouse button to use for building HABs), and will IN NO WAY completely backfire.

 

PS. Seriously tho, to prevent players from wasting vehicles, players need to get better. You already can't claim a vic without SL approving it, and if vics are being wasted, it's because of bad SLs - which means that a team doesn't even have enough competent players to fill the SL slots.
Adding crewman kits will result in the same bad players making the same bad decisions, only now with an extra BS restriction which will limit the ability of the few competent players to carry the game.

Edited by Gopblin

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2 hours ago, Gopblin said:

Indeed! I can not wait for the moment when, in addition to needing 2 competent people on my Squad to get anything done, I will ALSO have to depend on other SLs to get my Squad places, supply my FOBs, and get fire support.


I'm sure this will work TOTALLY FINE in the current state of the community (i.e. when about a third of the players are still hazy on which mouse button to use for building HABs), and will IN NO WAY completely backfire.

 

PS. Seriously tho, to prevent players from wasting vehicles, players need to get better. You already can't claim a vic without SL approving it, and if vics are being wasted, it's because of bad SLs - which means that a team doesn't even have enough competent players to fill the SL slots.
Adding crewman kits will result in the same bad players making the same bad decisions, only now with an extra BS restriction which will limit the ability of the few competent players to carry the game.

I'll have to disagree with you on this one , in my opinion manning vehicles ( espically when we'll have heavier assests -like tanks and helicopters ) should be a dedicated role , just like every other role . 

While i do understand your stance about "bad players" , this game isn't suppost to be around "carring" the team by the good players ... But rather a team based effort , that is also why squad is aiming for the 50v50 warfare and not for a small competitve 8v8 matches .

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To put things simply, I don't see how the addition of crewman kits would improve the gameplay in any way. I can, however, see a few ways it could hurt the gameplay.

 

If the SL and/or his vehicle users are bad, they will misuse the vics. If they are good, they will not. How will adding a crewman role change that?

Make sure that infantry are unable to pick up vehicles abandoned in the field?
Make sure that good SLs would be unable to do infantry things and vehicle things at the same time?
Make sure that any infantry/vehicle coordination would have to happen over broken telegraph via Command chat (infantry=>infantry SL => vehicle SL => vehicle crew, then back-and-forth, repeatedly)?
I just don't see any way it could be good.

Yeah, sure, the problem with vehicle use exists. The problem is bad players. Adding crewman kits will not make them good, and in fact would likely make things worse.

Edited by Gopblin

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With existing vehicles, not sure I see the need. The flexibility provided by the current system makes my life as a squad lead much easier. Most of the APCs outside of 30mm (and Strykers trying to hunt them) work better when integrated into a Squad. Being able to switch people in and out of crew positions and things of that nature allow me to tailor my needs the situation a bit better. 

 

Now when heavier vehicles, especially MBTs get into the game, that is a different story. Those vehicles should be in unique squads of their own and with players dedicated to focusing on their mission. 

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13 hours ago, Tennessee said:

With existing vehicles, not sure I see the need. The flexibility provided by the current system makes my life as a squad lead much easier. Most of the APCs outside of 30mm (and Strykers trying to hunt them) work better when integrated into a Squad. Being able to switch people in and out of crew positions and things of that nature allow me to tailor my needs the situation a bit better. 

 

Now when heavier vehicles, especially MBTs get into the game, that is a different story. Those vehicles should be in unique squads of their own and with players dedicated to focusing on their mission. 

That's basiclly what i meant to say as well B| . while APC's may be better off to stay the way they are since they are used perfectly with infantry . heavier assets like tanks and helis should requier a unique role , that way a tank crew would be dedicated to that tank , and won't have the interst to leave it in a middle of nowhere and play as a reguar infantry squad since they won't have the right kits in order to do so.

And with all things considered.... The system worked perfectly in project reality , there should'nt be any reason it won't work in squad aswell.

Edited by L0cation

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18 hours ago, Gopblin said:

Indeed! I can not wait for the moment when, in addition to needing 2 competent people on my Squad to get anything done, I will ALSO have to depend on other SLs to get my Squad places, supply my FOBs, and get fire support.


I'm sure this will work TOTALLY FINE in the current state of the community (i.e. when about a third of the players are still hazy on which mouse button to use for building HABs), and will IN NO WAY completely backfire.

 

PS. Seriously tho, to prevent players from wasting vehicles, players need to get better. You already can't claim a vic without SL approving it, and if vics are being wasted, it's because of bad SLs - which means that a team doesn't even have enough competent players to fill the SL slots.
Adding crewman kits will result in the same bad players making the same bad decisions, only now with an extra BS restriction which will limit the ability of the few competent players to carry the game.

Players will adapt . Plus it encourages more coordination in the team and teams will have dedicated Apc squads finally! They just need to take a look at the manual and done. Not adding crewman kits won't do nothing and leave the current state of the playerbase. Remember players play this for teamwork and realism . Why wouldnt't they like more strict and roleplay kits like the crewman?

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3 hours ago, maze2 said:

Players will adapt . Plus it encourages more coordination in the team and teams will have dedicated Apc squads finally! They just need to take a look at the manual and done. Not adding crewman kits won't do nothing and leave the current state of the playerbase. Remember players play this for teamwork and realism . Why wouldnt't they like more strict and roleplay kits like the crewman?

Teams already have "dedicated APC squads". This idea isn't about "adding" anything, it's about removing the ability of infantry squads to use APCs, and I don't see how that could possibly improve gameplay.
 

If you want to see dedicated APC squads so much, just make a server rule that only 2-man squads are allowed to claim APCs => does the exact same thing as adding crewman kits, with none of the work.

Edited by Gopblin

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19 hours ago, Gopblin said:

To put things simply, I don't see how the addition of crewman kits would improve the gameplay in any way. I can, however, see a few ways it could hurt the gameplay.

 

If the SL and/or his vehicle users are bad, they will misuse the vics. If they are good, they will not. How will adding a crewman role change that?

Make sure that infantry are unable to pick up vehicles abandoned in the field?
Make sure that good SLs would be unable to do infantry things and vehicle things at the same time?
Make sure that any infantry/vehicle coordination would have to happen over broken telegraph via Command chat (infantry=>infantry SL => vehicle SL => vehicle crew, then back-and-forth, repeatedly)?
I just don't see any way it could be good.

Yeah, sure, the problem with vehicle use exists. The problem is bad players. Adding crewman kits will not make them good, and in fact would likely make things worse.

Punish careless vehicle play severely. The crew of a dead vic only respawns when it does for example, or another, painfully long time. People would be far more cautious, they wouldn't drive straight into caps, you wouldn't see SL's driving armor around in a combat role, you wouldn't see people using armor primarily as a taxi and then handing it off to some random rifleman at the cap. "Hey, anyone want to take this and try to kill some of the enemy?" Only skilled experienced players would be willing to crew armor, like pilots, their talents can either make or break a team. 

 

Also, the killing of other vics would become even more important, since besides depriving the enemy of them, you'd also take those players out of the fight. Lowly LATs could become heroes. 

 

As long as there's no individual penalty for losing a vehicle, people are going to treat them as disposable. 

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30 minutes ago, LugNut said:

Punish careless vehicle play severely. The crew of a dead vic only respawns when it does for example, or another, painfully long time. People would be far more cautious, they wouldn't drive straight into caps, you wouldn't see SL's driving armor around in a combat role, you wouldn't see people using armor primarily as a taxi and then handing it off to some random rifleman at the cap. "Hey, anyone want to take this and try to kill some of the enemy?" Only skilled experienced players would be willing to crew armor, like pilots, their talents can either make or break a team. 

 

Also, the killing of other vics would become even more important, since besides depriving the enemy of them, you'd also take those players out of the fight. Lowly LATs could become heroes. 

 

As long as there's no individual penalty for losing a vehicle, people are going to treat them as disposable. 

Didn't really understand the "the vehicle crew spawns when the vehicle does" 

, i think that the best way to go is to make it simular to the way it was in project reality , since it worked so wonderfully .

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1 hour ago, L0cation said:

Didn't really understand the "the vehicle crew spawns when the vehicle does" 

, i think that the best way to go is to make it simular to the way it was in project reality , since it worked so wonderfully .

If you were crew in a BTR that gets destroyed, a driver or a gunner, you won't respawn until your BTR does. So, you have a long wait.

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2 hours ago, LugNut said:

If you were crew in a BTR that gets destroyed, a driver or a gunner, you won't respawn until your BTR does. So, you have a long wait.

This system would totally make people play more carful with vehicles ... But it is too much in my opinion ... The "dead" crewmen should be able to pick another vehicle of the same type (if available) and if not atleast fill other roles like infantry until the vehicle is back .

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2 hours ago, jellyswim said:

I bet they'll be added with IFVs like Bradley's and BMPs

Really Hope so B| . problem is ... I am pretty sure that crewmen have their own very unquie appearance - that is quite different from infantry ( i think they usally wear vests ) ... And we have'nt seen any sneak-peeks about the crewmen player models , so i really doubt it .

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If you are able to swap into a crewman kit at the vehicle, much like an ammo crate, I see this having a positive affect overall.  You wouldn't be restricting anyone from accessing a vehicle, but they would need to sacrifice their current kit.  While I think that is the best way to manage crew kits, I also think it should only apply to heavier assets like tracked vehicles.  Anything up to a wheeled APC should be accessible to all infantry players.

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6 hours ago, LugNut said:

Punish careless vehicle play severely. The crew of a dead vic only respawns when it does for example, or another, painfully long time. People would be far more cautious, they wouldn't drive straight into caps, you wouldn't see SL's driving armor around in a combat role, you wouldn't see people using armor primarily as a taxi and then handing it off to some random rifleman at the cap. "Hey, anyone want to take this and try to kill some of the enemy?" Only skilled experienced players would be willing to crew armor, like pilots, their talents can either make or break a team. 

 

Also, the killing of other vics would become even more important, since besides depriving the enemy of them, you'd also take those players out of the fight. Lowly LATs could become heroes. 

 

As long as there's no individual penalty for losing a vehicle, people are going to treat them as disposable. 

 

I can see where you're coming from, but your suggested measures have nothing to do with crewman kits, so my original question still stands.

 

Also, even though I facepalm at bad vehicle play as much as anybody, I doubt that punishing people would raise their skill level. More likely, it would just cut the Squad playerbase by two thirds and kill the game.

Edited by Gopblin

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18 hours ago, L0cation said:

This system would totally make people play more carful with vehicles ... But it is too much in my opinion ... The "dead" crewmen should be able to pick another vehicle of the same type (if available) and if not atleast fill other roles like infantry until the vehicle is back .

I'm not too hung up on the specifics, but without personal penalties in game for poor decisions, there's no reason to not make them. 

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17 hours ago, Gopblin said:

 

I can see where you're coming from, but your suggested measures have nothing to do with crewman kits, so my original question still stands.

 

Also, even though I facepalm at bad vehicle play as much as anybody, I doubt that punishing people would raise their skill level. More likely, it would just cut the Squad playerbase by two thirds and kill the game.

I'm fine with crewman kits, I think that they should give you power, in that you alone can crew a vehicle, but should also require a sacrifice like you can only respawn at main. I think punishing people would actually give incentive to people to train and get good with vehicles, especially armor. Just like pilots, you'd find that some players would specialize in that role and embrace the challenge of competing against other competent armor crews. Same with AT roles, since a proficient AT player or group of AT could have such an impact on the round, you'd see training and an increase in skill. There would develop mini games within the meta, as skills and the importance of an individual role increased. In RO-RO2 for example, I often played AT, against the same skilled tankers, who, if they stayed alive could completely dominate a match. It was like playing chess while the battle raged around us. 

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On 27/2/2018 at 11:52 AM, Gopblin said:

Teams already have "dedicated APC squads". This idea isn't about "adding" anything, it's about removing the ability of infantry squads to use APCs, and I don't see how that could possibly improve gameplay.
 

If you want to see dedicated APC squads so much, just make a server rule that only 2-man squads are allowed to claim APCs => does the exact same thing as adding crewman kits, with none of the work.

How infantry Squads  are gonna operate  an Apc ? Nonsense dude. Soldiers have an specialization and Squad is trying to accurately represent them.  For example : in the future they will add pilot kits and are u gonna tell me that a grunt can operate an Apache or trans Huey?  i mean cmon man. And it really doesn't matter what u think or what i think, devs are just simply gonna add it because of this simple word that sets this game apart from all those classic arcade shooters is ROLEPLAY mate. Just adapt dude. Hell even bf1 uses crewman class for tanks . 

Edited by maze2

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34 minutes ago, maze2 said:

How infantry Squads  are gonna operate  an Apc ? Nonsense dude. Soldiers have an specialization and Squad is trying to accurately represent them.  For example : in the future they will add pilot kits and are u gonna tell me that a grunt can operate an Apache or trans Huey?  i mean cmon man. And it really doesn't matter what u think or what i think, devs are just simply gonna add it because of this simple word that sets this game apart from all those classic arcade shooters is ROLEPLAY mate. Just adapt dude. Hell even bf1 uses crewman class for tanks . 

 

Uhh... what? You do realize that IRL the APC/IFV is just an armored transport vehicle for soldiers, right? Its not part of some separate unit, it's commanded by the infantry squad leader and expected to act as transport/fire support for the infantry squad.

 

BTR%20Squad_zpsedifzzgb.jpg

 

But anyways, IRL TOEs are made with entirely different concerns in mind and shouldn't guide video game development. Just look at the Steel Division fiasco.

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2 hours ago, LugNut said:

I'm fine with crewman kits, I think that they should give you power, in that you alone can crew a vehicle, but should also require a sacrifice like you can only respawn at main. I think punishing people would actually give incentive to people to train and get good with vehicles, especially armor. Just like pilots, you'd find that some players would specialize in that role and embrace the challenge of competing against other competent armor crews. Same with AT roles, since a proficient AT player or group of AT could have such an impact on the round, you'd see training and an increase in skill. There would develop mini games within the meta, as skills and the importance of an individual role increased. In RO-RO2 for example, I often played AT, against the same skilled tankers, who, if they stayed alive could completely dominate a match. It was like playing chess while the battle raged around us. 

 

"You alone can crew" which vehicle? Because for now we only have APCs, and those are normally part of infantry squads.

Are you saying there should be a separate squad in charge of driving other squads to the warzone? I can't see how that wouldn't be a total cluster**** in the current (very inexperienced) state of the community.


Or there should be a separate class in charge of driving/gunning APCs within the squad? I could see how it could kinda solve some problems, but at the same time create new ones, mainly in the crewmen-SL interaction (i.e. all of them have to be good in order for this to work).

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Feel like APCs should require atleast the driver to have a crewman kit - like the pic from Gopblin says, "driver/mechanic and gunner stay in", kinda suggests the gunner is a guy that just sits behind the gun, whereas the dedicated driver is also a mechanic.

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IMO both driver and gunner should have the crewman kit. IMO, not having the kit makes the gameplay more careless, you can rush the APC and lose it but don't worry, you got a LAT or AR so you can just get out of the vehicle once things get ugly and keep being a killing machine.

 

The crewman kit would (IMO) limit this behavior as it would only have a rifle, some few magazines and some smoke grenades, so it wouldn't be a very effective combat kit, so you either go down with the APC and spawn back at main to get another one or spawn at a FOB/RP to play as INF while another one spawns, or you get out when there's nothing you can do at all and try to get back to friendlies to switch the kit.

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1 hour ago, Gopblin said:

 

"You alone can crew" which vehicle? Because for now we only have APCs, and those are normally part of infantry squads.

Are you saying there should be a separate squad in charge of driving other squads to the warzone? I can't see how that wouldn't be a total cluster**** in the current (very inexperienced) state of the community.


Or there should be a separate class in charge of driving/gunning APCs within the squad? I could see how it could kinda solve some problems, but at the same time create new ones, mainly in the crewmen-SL interaction (i.e. all of them have to be good in order for this to work).

"You alone" - I meant only crewmen would be able to crew APCs. In game, APCs are used as taxis, and then usually, untrained driver/gunner teams drive them around until they get killed and are wasted. Hardly how they are used IRL. If only crewmen could drive them, they'd be used as transport, especially at the start of the match, but also more responsibly as a weapons platform. Anyone could drive transport trucks or logis, since they're just trucks. 

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