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Hvolute

Please Fix the visibility.

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9 hours ago, PuddleMurda said:

IMO, not being able to see heads bobbing behind a wall from across a field, not more than 100+ meters away with 1920 x 1080 resolution, without using binoculars, is not a "difficulty setting". It is just frustrating, from a game play perspective. 

i play in 1080p on an old as dirt samsung 24 inch and i can easily spot enemies that are 100+ meters away.

i also do not understand how this is frustrating, frustrating because you get killed or for what reason? :)

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Posted (edited)

its unbelievable how people are just blind for situation . 

we not speaking about real life or real life eyes or nothings .

just take battlefield 3 all high settings 1080p . squad all high 1080p .

compare only the visuals . 

people just want simple clean visual . that wont get blury and washing after 100 m 

we not speaking real life mega pixels or fovs .

people just want to see on they monitor what they used too . clear image 

 

maxresdefault_1.jpg

Edited by virusman

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That actually looks like trash compared to Squad, not sure why you'd post that.

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I agree fully with op. There is no reason that i cant read any sign past the 150m sign on the shooting range. This is with all max graphical settings and a weapon with iron sights.

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19 hours ago, FIXXXER said:

i play in 1080p on an old as dirt samsung 24 inch and i can easily spot enemies that are 100+ meters away.

i also do not understand how this is frustrating, frustrating because you get killed or for what reason? :)

Then your old 24-inch 1080p is way superior to my brand new BenQ 27" 1080p. Good for you. 

 

If you have a lot of textures behind the wall then no, you will not see a couple of heads bobbing behind that wall at 100+ meters, unless you hold completely still, stick your face up to the screen and focus on that particular wall. At a 100 meters in real life I would be able to spot a house cat in my peripherals, if I was paying attention to my surroundings. In squad you need to lean in towards the screen and squint to see anything past 100+ meters, unless enemies are running in the open against a monotone background. 100 m, 200 m, no need to nitpick, the point is still the same. 

 

Please stop insinuating things I have never said. It does not prove any point whatsoever, and is starting to annoy me. Also, if you do not understand what I have meticulously explained in several posts, there is no point in us continuing this conversation.  

 

Thank you for the chat. 

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On 2018-02-15 at 2:25 PM, Hvolute said:

Please fix the vision in this game. We need either a ARMA like zoom that can be used at any time or we need major adjustments to rendering scale at range. The current game makes seeing distant enemies, especially when standing in the open, way too difficult. Contrast needs work as well. The degree to which camo works right now is absurd. 

 

All of these things combined are creating a game where the combat is being compressed into much smaller areas than it would be for a given terrain type. It additionally makes the value of optics FAR too great. In real life optics are a huge factor, but personnel with iron sights are not next to useless like they are now. 

 

This is not a small deal. The current state of vision in the game alters tactics to a great extent from what they would be in real life. 

 

I also what to make it clear that my view on this is not a matter of opinion, at least with regards to how this game currently stacks up to real life vision. The developers view on how to make their game IS a matter of opinion, and one which they obviously have every right to do as they please. BUT if you want to make this game CORRECT, then vision needs fixed. ----My source regarding my views on vision is that I do this in real life as a 12B. It is several orders of magnitude easier to see distant contacts in the real world than it is in squad right now. Not just slightly easier, WAY easier. As in Night/Day difference. In real life, a target at 1000m is easier to see than a target at 300m in this game. 

What is the arma zoom like? How does it work? 

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16 minutes ago, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

What is the arma zoom like? How does it work? 

I was just about to make a post about this.... 

 

In short, the game runs better, and looks and feels better, especially in term of the pace of movement, with a 120 degree FOV. This should be the standard FOV and 90 should be ditched, after all, an accurate IRL representation of FOV is 180 degrees, even with combat goggles on (like ESS). The weapons and and other things would need to be rescaled to fit this FOV but it IS NECESSARY. There's no need to cling to the 90 degrees FOV of past FPS. 

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19 minutes ago, LuxCapere said:

The weapons and and other things would need to be rescaled to fit this

i disagree - of course i could be wrong: what is needed is more resolution to reach the edges of a higher FOV (engine-based-rendering), so that the 'view' does not need to be streched to fit - this is my understanding of how things work, please correct me if i wrong.

personally i'd like a 8k x 4k headmount display so i could have virtually total periphral coverage without distortion/stretching.

 

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16 hours ago, PuddleMurda said:

If you have a lot of textures behind the wall then no, you will not see a couple of heads bobbing behind that wall at 100+ meters, unless you hold completely still, stick your face up to the screen and focus on that particular wall. At a 100 meters in real life I would be able to spot a house cat in my peripherals, if I was paying attention to my surroundings. In squad you need to lean in towards the screen and squint to see anything past 100+ meters, unless enemies are running in the open against a monotone background. 100 m, 200 m, no need to nitpick, the point is still the same. 

 

Please stop insinuating things I have never said. It does not prove any point whatsoever, and is starting to annoy me. Also, if you do not understand what I have meticulously explained in several posts, there is no point in us continuing this conversation.  

 

Thank you for the chat. 

EXACTLY, it's always been like that and it will always be like that until computers become powerful enough to provide life like photorealism!

generally i think that you simply do not get my point, adding zoom is not a solution for this issue, it's more a very questionable compromise,

that might help with visibility problems but also kill immersion like it does in ARMA.

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On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 8:25 AM, Hvolute said:

Please fix the vision in this game. We need either a ARMA like zoom that can be used at any time or we need major adjustments to rendering scale at range. The current game makes seeing distant enemies, especially when standing in the open, way too difficult. Contrast needs work as well. The degree to which camo works right now is absurd. 

 

All of these things combined are creating a game where the combat is being compressed into much smaller areas than it would be for a given terrain type. It additionally makes the value of optics FAR too great. In real life optics are a huge factor, but personnel with iron sights are not next to useless like they are now. 

 

This is not a small deal. The current state of vision in the game alters tactics to a great extent from what they would be in real life. 

 

I also what to make it clear that my view on this is not a matter of opinion, at least with regards to how this game currently stacks up to real life vision. The developers view on how to make their game IS a matter of opinion, and one which they obviously have every right to do as they please. BUT if you want to make this game CORRECT, then vision needs fixed. ----My source regarding my views on vision is that I do this in real life as a 12B. It is several orders of magnitude easier to see distant contacts in the real world than it is in squad right now. Not just slightly easier, WAY easier. As in Night/Day difference. In real life, a target at 1000m is easier to see than a target at 300m in this game. 

Dude, honestly. It's fine. Considering the fact that there is hardly any bullet drop and absolutely 0 windage to take in account. Think about it. If you increase the visibility, and zoom, people are going to start camping more and killing people 1000m away, like the other user said. Now, don't get me wrong...I think it's hard as hell to see, and I have to scoot my chair up all the way to my computer to play this game. But, that's what makes it fun. This isn't Battlefield...this isn't Call of Duty. It's something more genuine and sanctifying. It's Squad man....and I wouldn't have it any other way.

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3 minutes ago, CoolBreeze3 said:

Dude, honestly. It's fine. Considering the fact that there is hardly any bullet drop and absolutely 0 windage to take in account. Think about it. If you increase the visibility, and zoom, people are going to start camping more and killing people 1000m away, like the other user said. Now, don't get me wrong...I think it's hard as hell to see, and I have to scoot my chair up all the way to my computer to play this game. But, that's what makes it fun. This isn't Battlefield...this isn't Call of Duty. It's something more genuine and sanctifying. It's Squad man....and I wouldn't have it any other way.


That's a good point. If you allow zoom-in eyes, you are just making the map effectively smaller. Sure, the "tactics" might not be close to real life, because of the visibility, but there's quite a lot of things in the game that aren't anywhere close to real life, so making this part as real as possible would just unbalance them. Arma can get away with it, because it has a much larger environment and the pace of the game is different aswell. 
Again, I think Squad would, counterintuitively, get a much more agreeable pace if the minimum FOV was raised, as at that point weapons with bipods and/or optics would fullfill the role of making sure you have that long distance visibility and accuraccy, while also having the spatial awareness in the case of non-magnified weapons without the sacrifice of raising your fov while everyone else has theirs low.

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1 hour ago, FIXXXER said:

EXACTLY, it's always been like that and it will always be like that until computers become powerful enough to provide life like photorealism!

generally i think that you simply do not get my point, adding zoom is not a solution for this issue, it's more a very questionable compromise,

that might help with visibility problems but also kill immersion like it does in ARMA.

Although I agree that zoom isn't the best solution, or one at all I don't think you understand how bad the visibility actually is in this game.

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2 minutes ago, banOkay said:

Although I agree that zoom isn't the best solution, or one at all I don't think you understand how bad the visibility actually is in this game.

Not very bad, if you have your settings right.

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3 minutes ago, Peerun said:

Not very bad, if you have your settings right.

What would those be, 2.0 super sampling 1.0 sharpening for the maximum headache?

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1 hour ago, banOkay said:

Although I agree that zoom isn't the best solution, or one at all I don't think you understand how bad the visibility actually is in this game.

believe me, i do, but i'd still prefer this to a "zoom"

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so there's lots of opinion and conjecture in here - maybe peeps could post screenies, along with their reasons why the visibility is, or is not, good (including mon. size and in-game settings).

 

personally i don't take to much stock in peoples opinions about these sorts of things, if they can't provide some visual proof/reference to thier claims, because these things can be quite subjective.

 

i bring this up because the discussion(s?) about re-shade and visual fidelity elsewhere, where some screens were posted, shows just how wildy different peoples idea of "good" is.

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lv07gFh.jpg

 

This with no AA, FOV 90 degrees, not aiming, 1920x1080. At 200m the sign is readable, but barely. At 300m, the sign is unreadable, and the small round targets are around 1 pixel. 400m the person-sized targets are 1 pixel wide.

 

But the most interesting: 500m and the targets become bizarre. Only 2 are showing, and they seem fat. At 600m the targets become COMPLETELY INVISIBLE. At 700m it's just a big blob. Beyond that you might as well be blind.

 

I'm no expert on 3d rendering, but the way UE4 handles distant objects seems really bizarre. At 400m, a standing soldier in camo might as well be invisible, he would be just 1 or 2 pixels wide. My own experience tells me this is true, at those distances I can only see people who are moving or who are against a contrasting background. At longer ranges the targets may actually disappear depending on the angle you are looking, as seen at 600m on this screen. Also interesting to note, the trees at the end of the range are visible, but might as well be UFOs.

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@Nimbus: wierd how the gun is out of focus but your hand is not.

3 hours ago, Vegetal said:

I'm no expert on 3d rendering, but the way UE4 handles distant objects seems really bizarre

Yeah, totally agree. i'm thinking UE4 is just plain inaccurate over longer distances. maybe it's an 'artifact' of a PBR system? your screenie clearly (pun ;p) shows things being sorta smooshed out of existence.

 

i wonder if oversampling the render makes much difference - i'm guesing very little if anything, though, after all a render at 25% or even 50% bigger still needs to be re-sampled back down to screen resolution.

 

would be interesting to see a 4k screenie.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, LaughingJack said:

@Nimbus: wierd how the gun is out of focus but your hand is not.

Yeah, totally agree. i'm thinking UE4 is just plain inaccurate over longer distances. maybe it's an 'artifact' of a PBR system? your screenie clearly (pun ;p) shows things being sorta smooshed out of existence.

 

i wonder if oversampling the render makes much difference - i'm guesing very little if anything, though, after all a render at 25% or even 50% bigger still needs to be re-sampled back down to screen resolution.

 

would be interesting to see a 4k screenie.

I lol'ed at the pun xD

 

I think oversampling might have an effect though, might test it later (I don't need to worry about fps on the shooting range anyway). I guess it's something along these lines:

There's only 1 pixel available, and there's a soldier and dirt, both occupying the same pixel.

If soldier area > dirt area, the pixel shows soldier

If dirt area > soldier area, the pixel shows dirt.

I don't know if that was understandable enough :P but that would explain the soldier disappearing completely for example.

 

Unfortunately I don't have Arma 3, which would be really good for comparison, as the theme is similar. If someone could take screens there, with the same distance references, it would be really awesome. EDIT: Also, no zoom there, FOV 90 if possible. We need to make a direct comparison.

Edited by Vegetal

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The problem is Squad chooses to render the background if object isn't big enough to fit. Targets are disappearing, but if you're moving your view you notice them pop back in.

 

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