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Hvolute

Please Fix the visibility.

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On 15.2.2018 at 2:25 PM, Hvolute said:

Please fix the vision in this game. We need either a ARMA like zoom that can be used at any time or we need major adjustments to rendering scale at range. The current game makes seeing distant enemies, especially when standing in the open, way too difficult. Contrast needs work as well. The degree to which camo works right now is absurd. 

 

All of these things combined are creating a game where the combat is being compressed into much smaller areas than it would be for a given terrain type. It additionally makes the value of optics FAR too great. In real life optics are a huge factor, but personnel with iron sights are not next to useless like they are now. 

 

This is not a small deal. The current state of vision in the game alters tactics to a great extent from what they would be in real life. 

 

I also what to make it clear that my view on this is not a matter of opinion, at least with regards to how this game currently stacks up to real life vision. The developers view on how to make their game IS a matter of opinion, and one which they obviously have every right to do as they please. BUT if you want to make this game CORRECT, then vision needs fixed. ----My source regarding my views on vision is that I do this in real life as a 12B. It is several orders of magnitude easier to see distant contacts in the real world than it is in squad right now. Not just slightly easier, WAY easier. As in Night/Day difference. In real life, a target at 1000m is easier to see than a target at 300m in this game. 

 

In all seriousness, what are you actually expecting from this game?

You are writing about "real life" and making the game "correct" and then you are requesting an "ARMA like zoom"!? 

 

If there is anybody who would like this game to be realistic than it's me, but adding something that's completely unreralistic (zoom)

to compensate for the weak visibility seems absolutely illogical to me.

 

I am not sure, but some recent postings about this topic make me think that people are mad

simply because they are not able to spot and "instaheadshot" enemies at distances

up to 1000 meters, which is ridiculous.

 

I also think that the game has by far more problematic things to solve first.

 

Generally speaking, there is only one legitimate way to fix "visibility" in computer games which would be a

drastic increase in screen size and resolution which by todays technical standards is simply not possible

 

 

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38 minutes ago, FIXXXER said:

 

In all seriousness, what are you actually expecting from this game?

You are writing about "real life" and making the game "correct" and then you are requesting an "ARMA like zoom"!? 

 

If there is anybody who would like this game to be realistic than it's me, but adding something that's completely unreralistic (zoom)

to compensate for the weak visibility seems absolutely illogical to me.

 

I am not sure, but some recent postings about this topic make me think that people are mad

simply because they are not able to spot and "instaheadshot" enemies at distances

up to 1000 meters, which is ridiculous.

 

I also think that the game has by far more problematic things to solve first.

 

Generally speaking, there is only one legitimate way to fix "visibility" in computer games which would be a

drastic increase in screen size and resolution which by todays technical standards is simply not possible

 

 

Or you add a zoom, which id done specifically because of the difference between human peripheral vision and the area of focus. Video games are abstractions, and you need further abstractions to compensate when 1 to 1 realism cannot be achieved. There is nothing at all unrealistic about adding a zoom so that you can see things properly. 

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14 minutes ago, FIXXXER said:

Generally speaking, there is only one legitimate way to fix "visibility" in computer games which would be a

drastic increase in screen size and resolution which by todays technical standards is simply not possible

Maybe at the moment, the best way is to deal with what we can do now from the side of Squad before adressing a maybe-of-whatever-technical-standard.

 

I'm not a fan about the Arma zoom and such stuff, like now the "focus". I would prefer if the Devs get more into the fact, that at the moment a video game is just an audio visual expierience and everything that happens in the game is also just only noted by sound or optical events. Not more, there isnt any real feedback, no force or weight or something else you can feel.

 

And thats the point where the game helps out, with help like a HUD or GUI (or wich word is fitting it better), with some tweaks around things they do not occur in real life. And also adding here and there some limits. In other words, every game is even by trying to be realistic just a copy of the real world breaked down to mathematically possible gamerules.

 

Instad of the Arma liek Zoom/Focus what ever, I would prefer to handle it much more comfortable, like having with everysight an basic magnification (Or less field of view) at the moment where I start aiming down the sight while I have a much high Field of View as long I do not aim down the sight to come close enougth to the real situiation of different awarness of you and your surrounding.

 

25 minutes ago, FIXXXER said:

Please fix the vision in this game. We need either a ARMA like zoom that can be used at any time or we need major adjustments to rendering scale at range.

I'm with you, but not about the Zoom. Like writed above, I think the zoom should be better implement together with using ADS to great a much smoother controll. A seperated zoom is not more than just another button. It makes something more complex and intentionally insteed to make it more reflexively where you do not need to think about it to happen (some people would it call muscle memory or subconscious).

 

But thats just only the point around the palyers avatar and his setting up in the gamerules. The real visibility is much more something about a good rendering of entire all you will see in the game and here we should be honest: Squad sucks about this. I'm not sure why, but it is like it is. Maybe its not a good comparsion, but Battlefield 3, 4 Hardline and BF1 are able to render even great distances with much better result.

 

But we also do not forget about the thing.... Scopes and Binoculars are intended to make it not just easier, but also just whole possible to spot and engage enemys on further distances. Likethe render limits the visibility, scopes can set those limit further on greater distances. Worldrender and FOV, Zoom/Magnifactions, drawing of Scopes and Binoculars should work together to bring the game expierience as near as possible to "real" expieriences.

 

Staying on the point "In IRL you do not have a Zoom" isnt realy contructive to compensate the limits of technic. The Eye works different than a camera. The vision on Distance works different then the vision on a monitor, a monitor projects just a 2D Picture, everything we see on the monitor are 2D, not 3D, the "Picture" itselfs creats the illusion of depth and 3D. Like I as painter eduacted for "Trompe-l´œil", or in other words, painting objects on plain surfaces to create the illusion of of real objects with depth.

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3 minutes ago, DerGepard said:

Maybe at the moment, the best way is to deal with what we can do now from the side of Squad before adressing a maybe-of-whatever-technical-standard.

 

I'm not a fan about the Arma zoom and such stuff, like now the "focus". I would prefer if the Devs get more into the fact, that at the moment a video game is just an audio visual expierience and everything that happens in the game is also just only noted by sound or optical events. Not more, there isnt any real feedback, no force or weight or something else you can feel.

 

And thats the point where the game helps out, with help like a HUD or GUI (or wich word is fitting it better), with some tweaks around things they do not occur in real life. And also adding here and there some limits. In other words, every game is even by trying to be realistic just a copy of the real world breaked down to mathematically possible gamerules.

 

Instad of the Arma liek Zoom/Focus what ever, I would prefer to handle it much more comfortable, like having with everysight an basic magnification (Or less field of view) at the moment where I start aiming down the sight while I have a much high Field of View as long I do not aim down the sight to come close enougth to the real situiation of different awarness of you and your surrounding.

 

I'm with you, but not about the Zoom. Like writed above, I think the zoom should be better implement together with using ADS to great a much smoother controll. A seperated zoom is not more than just another button. It makes something more complex and intentionally insteed to make it more reflexively where you do not need to think about it to happen (some people would it call muscle memory or subconscious).

 

But thats just only the point around the palyers avatar and his setting up in the gamerules. The real visibility is much more something about a good rendering of entire all you will see in the game and here we should be honest: Squad sucks about this. I'm not sure why, but it is like it is. Maybe its not a good comparsion, but Battlefield 3, 4 Hardline and BF1 are able to render even great distances with much better result.

 

But we also do not forget about the thing.... Scopes and Binoculars are intended to make it not just easier, but also just whole possible to spot and engage enemys on further distances. Likethe render limits the visibility, scopes can set those limit further on greater distances. Worldrender and FOV, Zoom/Magnifactions, drawing of Scopes and Binoculars should work together to bring the game expierience as near as possible to "real" expieriences.

 

Staying on the point "In IRL you do not have a Zoom" isnt realy contructive to compensate the limits of technic. The Eye works different than a camera. The vision on Distance works different then the vision on a monitor, a monitor projects just a 2D Picture, everything we see on the monitor are 2D, not 3D, the "Picture" itselfs creats the illusion of depth and 3D. Like I as painter eduacted for "Trompe-l´œil", or in other words, painting objects on plain surfaces to create the illusion of of real objects with depth.

Im not understanding why you take issue with a zoom. Just doing rendering adjustments wont fix the problem. In alot of cases the only real fix is to have a field of view adjustment. You dont want to make the default FOV super low, because then everyone has tunnel vision. You dont want it super high, because then everyone is blind like they are now. The best system I can see is to have a toggle zoom like in arma, on top of fixes to contrast and LOD. What is wrong with doing that?

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True that. The default 90 degrees total HFOV is relatively tight for 16:9, but it's not worth increasing if you're giving up zoom. Most PC games that assume you're playing at a desk use 106.26 HFOV for 16:9, Including PR with widescreenfixer.

 

Realistically enemy infantry should be difficult to discern past 300m without optics though. Of course there's multiple factors to consider, like the lighting conditions and terrain, how silhouetted they are, etc.

Here's a relevant page from a PKM manual about estimating distance: 'the soldier estimates distance by how he sees the objects or targets at various distances' and assumes 'favorable conditions (nice weather, strong light, etc)'. Notes that the contour of a person's silhouette breaks down past 200m for a person with normal eyesight.

mpxpq.png

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Hvolute said:

Im not understanding why you take issue with a zoom.

The issue with the zoom is, that its seperation is a far too abstract, its doesnt fit good to the idea to make it as real as possible. Focussing and "reallife zoom" occurs only as long you are able to focus on something, like your front sight of your weapon. It feels weird and woudlnt realy fix anything.

 

Just a zoom doesnt work realy ergonomic or gives around the audio/visual restriction a good body feel and feedback of what happening. If you want going around and spotting something it fit much better just to use corresponding optical devices.

32 minutes ago, Hvolute said:

You dont want to make the default FOV super low, because then everyone has tunnel vision. You dont want it super high, because then everyone is blind like they are now.

You`re right here. Just one FOV is shit. A solution is here, to make a different FOV of ADS and Normal "offset" view. At this point, it doenst matter if you are going to aim down the sight with a Bino or with a Scope. I see this seperation important because it fits game comfortable controlls better, works better with the immersion and emphatic (or emphated?) better events in the game itself. At least, any solution works only if FOV, Render and Magnifaction works together.

 

44 minutes ago, Hvolute said:

The best system I can see is to have a toggle zoom like in arma, on top of fixes to contrast and LOD. What is wrong with doing that?

Its wrong because a seperated zoom, toggle, hold or whatever, doesnt fit the illusion of body feeling and is a "hard introduced help" on the side of the game and not a good embedded one. Maybe its in the Alpha a good hotfix, but above this some kind of bad, or better, lazy gamedesign and against the "organic" feeling thats one of the goals of squad.

 

Beside this: Arma is a bad reference for me. Most realismen occurs only due the qestionable controls to trigger different events of what ever than fitting well together.  At least that's my impression from what I have seen and was able to play along ...Demos or free weekend palys? Not sure. Maybe with some Mods and so on its good but it isnt a game I would by in my own intent.

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2 hours ago, DerGepard said:

The issue with the zoom is, that its seperation is a far too abstract, its doesnt fit good to the idea to make it as real as possible. Focussing and "reallife zoom" occurs only as long you are able to focus on something, like your front sight of your weapon. It feels weird and woudlnt realy fix anything.

 

Just a zoom doesnt work realy ergonomic or gives around the audio/visual restriction a good body feel and feedback of what happening. If you want going around and spotting something it fit much better just to use corresponding optical devices.

You`re right here. Just one FOV is shit. A solution is here, to make a different FOV of ADS and Normal "offset" view. At this point, it doenst matter if you are going to aim down the sight with a Bino or with a Scope. I see this seperation important because it fits game comfortable controlls better, works better with the immersion and emphatic (or emphated?) better events in the game itself. At least, any solution works only if FOV, Render and Magnifaction works together.

 

Its wrong because a seperated zoom, toggle, hold or whatever, doesnt fit the illusion of body feeling and is a "hard introduced help" on the side of the game and not a good embedded one. Maybe its in the Alpha a good hotfix, but above this some kind of bad, or better, lazy gamedesign and against the "organic" feeling thats one of the goals of squad.

 

Beside this: Arma is a bad reference for me. Most realismen occurs only due the qestionable controls to trigger different events of what ever than fitting well together.  At least that's my impression from what I have seen and was able to play along ...Demos or free weekend palys? Not sure. Maybe with some Mods and so on its good but it isnt a game I would by in my own intent.

I cant say I agree withe the body feel. Arma does said zoom and it doesnt feel weird to me at all. It also wont work to limit the zoom to non-optic ADS because you would not be able to use free look at the same time. To me that is critical. Also a 50 deg FOV zoom is not going to give you a zoom so focused that you lose your orientation or your immersion as you said. With such a zoom you would still be able to see your muzzle etc. The other issue you run into if you make the ADS the only setting for toggle zoom is that you force someone into this setting when ADS. So if I want ADS but wide FOV, say in CQB or anything under 75m, then Im screwed. Thats why the zoom needs to be adjusted both in ADS and out of it. 

 

Either way I dont see any way of getting around a zoom. Just doing LOD and contrast fixes wont solve the problem enough. A zoom is the only method available I think that fixes the lack of ability to focus like the eye does, which is why so many shooters do this. 

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Here is what is being suggested, among other things, for those who are not familiar:

 

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9 minutes ago, Hvolute said:

Here is what is being suggested, among other things, for those who are not familiar:

 

That looks so weird :S

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1 minute ago, DerGepard said:

That looks so weird :S

What about it looks weird? Also wouldnt you take weird over blind? Its kinda all we can do until we have 16k VR

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Just now, Hvolute said:

What about it looks weird? Also wouldnt you take weird over blind? Its kinda all we can do until we have 16k VR

There are plenty games running very well even without some kind of zoom like above. I do not want to cycling around with some views.... it doesnt feels very intuitive overall, something thats realy important to make a game realistic and smooth. And I wouldnt say without the magic zoom you are blind....

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1 minute ago, DerGepard said:

There are plenty games running very well even without some kind of zoom like above. I do not want to cycling around with some views.... it doesnt feels very intuitive overall, something thats realy important to make a game realistic and smooth. And I wouldnt say without the magic zoom you are blind....

Because you will be blind at realistic distances. Also its super easy to control that. All you do is hold down right click....

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1 minute ago, Hvolute said:

Because you will be blind at realistic distances. Also its super easy to control that. All you do is hold down right click....

Right klick is already my ADS. And I wouldnt say you are blind without this kinky zoom.

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3 minutes ago, DerGepard said:

Right klick is already my ADS. And I wouldnt say you are blind without this kinky zoom.

hold right clock, not just click. I dont see how this is kinky. I mean how does that word even apply here? The entire game engine is kinky, and as is every other game for that matter. Presuming waht you meant by kinky was cheesy. It isnt any more kinky than not being able to properly see things above 100m. Or Toss grenades like Brett Favre. Or having a suppression effect that disturbes your vision in order to simulate a need to keep your head down. Abstractions require abstractions in order to gain effective realism. 

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7 minutes ago, Hvolute said:

Abstractions require abstractions in order to gain effective realism. 

Thats paradox, it is a contradiction.

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1 minute ago, DerGepard said:

Thats paradox, it is a contradiction.

Not at all. A video game is an abstraction. Its literally impossible to do a 1 to 1 simulation of every thing in the game even if you wanted to. So said abstraction (the game) must be designed so that the many abstractions that make up the game (the mechanics) sum total to effective realism. So for squad, effective realism more or less means equivalent tactics to the real world as close as possible. We want rifles to act like rifle. We want infantry to fight as close as possible to how real infantry would fight. The same for tanks, artillery etc. So you always must design around this. This is the entire logic around the suppression system. And it is the reason that when the DCS devs implemented a extremely sophisticated missile aero model without a equivalent guidance model, you ended up with missiles that were NET less realistic. Air combat went from taking place at 20nm to taking place at 6. This sort of thing applies to all "sims" to use that word lightly. Every mechanic must be designed so that the end result mirrors real world functionality as close as possible. 

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21 minutes ago, Hvolute said:

Not at all. A video game is an abstraction. Its literally impossible to do a 1 to 1 simulation of every thing in the game even if you wanted to. So said abstraction (the game) must be designed so that the many abstractions that make up the game (the mechanics) sum total to effective realism

Ok what you write sounds a bit better to understand, even I'm not with you for such a zoom....or that more abstraction leads to more realism.Gmaybe gaming is abstract, but that isnt a free pass to involve every mechanic to a game just because there some technical limitations so you can get even more abstract with some stuff. Like what you showed above... that isnt in any form intuitiv or feeling in a good way to fit the whole game. There is much more space than just give every player some zoom on button. 

 

There should be a more intuitive and organic way to solve this problem. Maybe an argument to thougth twice of some zoom and focus stuff is also.... every player is able to hit everything as long he can see it (around the handhold firearms, mortar etc. is something different) with enorm accuracy. While casual games like Battlefield involve a basic spread to every weapon, Squad have at least nothing of this or not in a way the result is affected by it in a sufficient extent. I'm pretty suprised by myself how easy it is to snipe around with the AK and ironsights and do also in this way. So mostly it even doesnt become a firefight because now we are already on the point where the result of engagements are more something like how sees whos first and is able to snipe them first, and this already on distances I'm not sure if this is a common thing in real situations to start sniping around with reflex or ironsights above 300 or 400m.

48 minutes ago, Hvolute said:

So for squad, effective realism more or less means equivalent tactics to the real world as close as possible. We want rifles to act like rifle. We want infantry to fight as close as possible to how real infantry would fight. The same for tanks, artillery etc. So you always must design around this.

At this point im total with you. And this is some point I'm not sure if it works quite well around that zoom feature. Would it realy end in a more realistic behavior of all participating player? All what I get from afghanistan and mali, syria and so is what I get trougth the web (Yeah at the moment I cant buy every day a newspaper :P ) . So I'm asking myself if realy a US Army member or an entire squad would start sniping with the M4 on distances over 200m.

 

I'm pretty while you read this, you will maybe come on the idea, that it is not just about weapons handling but also, like you already mentioned, about the ability to look and spot enemy movement while using freelook. But here I want to ask you: is it in this situation maybe not better just to put out your binos or using your scope to go spotting on higher distances (or at least give this task the squaddy with the bino and scopes while you keeping on your own range)

58 minutes ago, Hvolute said:

This is the entire logic around the suppression system.

I do not question the supression system, more in the other way: Its not wuite effective enougth to compensate the lack of fear about deaths and injuries and also to simulate the whole body reflex for self-preservation (At this point: thats the army or civils with weapons we play "as avatar", no special forces....)

 

1 hour ago, Hvolute said:

And it is the reason that when the DCS devs implemented a extremely sophisticated missile aero model without a equivalent guidance model, you ended up with missiles that were NET less realistic. Air combat went from taking place at 20nm to taking place at 6. This sort of thing applies to all "sims" to use that word lightly.

Wait what... you mean they scaled the Air combat from 20 nautical miles to 6 nautical miles? Or did I get something? If this so (to be honest: I`m not realy sure if I understand you), than why its not also possible to scale theground combat a bit "smaller" to fit better to the technical limitations? At this point, I do not want to buy a 4k or 8k Setup just to play Squad, I want also to play it just on 1080p (or was it "i"? :P ) with an entire setup that can run it there with 60-120fps (As craftsman, I'm at the bottom of the income lists ...it would be sad if more deep games a restricted to people with big machines and all what I got is still running around in casual games like BF).

 

1 hour ago, Hvolute said:

Every mechanic must be designed so that the end result mirrors real world functionality as close as possible. 

Even on this point I'm with you, and even on this point I disagree to you, that the only way to fix the visibility is just a zoom. If you are not able to get a clear look on 100 or 200m, you get something to do so, and much more on 300m, 400m and so on. Maybe you get just closer, or you will using binos, scopes and so on. So for me, its more naturally just to have something in Squad that provide a good visibility on further distances than just add some zoom. At the moment I prefer the focus of Squad over the drastically zoom of Arma, but much more, I wish for my self just get rid of the focus and add better fitting sights, even iron sights, to the game. At the moment, say it simple (maybe I should create a image to explain it better), we are sitting mostly 60-70cm from the screen, up to 80cm like it is here by me, and than the 2D Illusion that shows the 3D Model of the Ironsight, is also portraying the view from the camera of the avatar up to the sights. Wich mean we have ~70cm from ourself, adding also the distance from cam to sight, and around what I see while using freelook, also the cam is ~5cm away from the position of the eyes. Ending up of nearly a illusionary distance of over 80, 90cm. Even the Iron sights of the M4 apears much more away than it maybe should be (I'm not a Firearms-shooter, I shoot with Bow without sights, I can only tell how I see it as somebody whos major job is it to display 3d things on 2d sufraces, and also eduaced in it... so if somebody know the truth, I want it to know! ^_^ )

 

Ending up that at the moment the whole view is too far away, at least for the sights, and this is some reason why I think before we adding more and more zoom without gadgets, we should tweak the ADS view a far better into the game, maybe be with a basic magnification of 1,25 or 1,50 or around a less open FOV. While keeping a wide FOV for the "offset"-view.

1 hour ago, Hvolute said:

I mean how does that word even apply here?

Kinky was maybe not realy well choosed. English isnt my native english, and most of what I know about english I havent get it in a educational way. I have also nobody to speak english, just writing and using the google translater for some words. I havent any feeling for language because I'm restricted to listen, reading and writing. I apologize for the circumstances, that I may not be able to express myself in english in a proper way. I hope you would forgive me about that :D

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49 minutes ago, DerGepard said:

Ok what you write sounds a bit better to understand, even I'm not with you for such a zoom....or that more abstraction leads to more realism.Gmaybe gaming is abstract, but that isnt a free pass to involve every mechanic to a game just because there some technical limitations so you can get even more abstract with some stuff. Like what you showed above... that isnt in any form intuitiv or feeling in a good way to fit the whole game. There is much more space than just give every player some zoom on button. 

 

There should be a more intuitive and organic way to solve this problem. Maybe an argument to thougth twice of some zoom and focus stuff is also.... every player is able to hit everything as long he can see it (around the handhold firearms, mortar etc. is something different) with enorm accuracy. While casual games like Battlefield involve a basic spread to every weapon, Squad have at least nothing of this or not in a way the result is affected by it in a sufficient extent. I'm pretty suprised by myself how easy it is to snipe around with the AK and ironsights and do also in this way. So mostly it even doesnt become a firefight because now we are already on the point where the result of engagements are more something like how sees whos first and is able to snipe them first, and this already on distances I'm not sure if this is a common thing in real situations to start sniping around with reflex or ironsights above 300 or 400m.

At this point im total with you. And this is some point I'm not sure if it works quite well around that zoom feature. Would it realy end in a more realistic behavior of all participating player? All what I get from afghanistan and mali, syria and so is what I get trougth the web (Yeah at the moment I cant buy every day a newspaper :P ) . So I'm asking myself if realy a US Army member or an entire squad would start sniping with the M4 on distances over 200m.

 

I'm pretty while you read this, you will maybe come on the idea, that it is not just about weapons handling but also, like you already mentioned, about the ability to look and spot enemy movement while using freelook. But here I want to ask you: is it in this situation maybe not better just to put out your binos or using your scope to go spotting on higher distances (or at least give this task the squaddy with the bino and scopes while you keeping on your own range)

I do not question the supression system, more in the other way: Its not wuite effective enougth to compensate the lack of fear about deaths and injuries and also to simulate the whole body reflex for self-preservation (At this point: thats the army or civils with weapons we play "as avatar", no special forces....)

 

Wait what... you mean they scaled the Air combat from 20 nautical miles to 6 nautical miles? Or did I get something? If this so (to be honest: I`m not realy sure if I understand you), than why its not also possible to scale theground combat a bit "smaller" to fit better to the technical limitations? At this point, I do not want to buy a 4k or 8k Setup just to play Squad, I want also to play it just on 1080p (or was it "i"? :P ) with an entire setup that can run it there with 60-120fps (As craftsman, I'm at the bottom of the income lists ...it would be sad if more deep games a restricted to people with big machines and all what I got is still running around in casual games like BF).

 

Even on this point I'm with you, and even on this point I disagree to you, that the only way to fix the visibility is just a zoom. If you are not able to get a clear look on 100 or 200m, you get something to do so, and much more on 300m, 400m and so on. Maybe you get just closer, or you will using binos, scopes and so on. So for me, its more naturally just to have something in Squad that provide a good visibility on further distances than just add some zoom. At the moment I prefer the focus of Squad over the drastically zoom of Arma, but much more, I wish for my self just get rid of the focus and add better fitting sights, even iron sights, to the game. At the moment, say it simple (maybe I should create a image to explain it better), we are sitting mostly 60-70cm from the screen, up to 80cm like it is here by me, and than the 2D Illusion that shows the 3D Model of the Ironsight, is also portraying the view from the camera of the avatar up to the sights. Wich mean we have ~70cm from ourself, adding also the distance from cam to sight, and around what I see while using freelook, also the cam is ~5cm away from the position of the eyes. Ending up of nearly a illusionary distance of over 80, 90cm. Even the Iron sights of the M4 apears much more away than it maybe should be (I'm not a Firearms-shooter, I shoot with Bow without sights, I can only tell how I see it as somebody whos major job is it to display 3d things on 2d sufraces, and also eduaced in it... so if somebody know the truth, I want it to know! ^_^ )

 

Ending up that at the moment the whole view is too far away, at least for the sights, and this is some reason why I think before we adding more and more zoom without gadgets, we should tweak the ADS view a far better into the game, maybe be with a basic magnification of 1,25 or 1,50 or around a less open FOV. While keeping a wide FOV for the "offset"-view.

Kinky was maybe not realy well choosed. English isnt my native english, and most of what I know about english I havent get it in a educational way. I have also nobody to speak english, just writing and using the google translater for some words. I havent any feeling for language because I'm restricted to listen, reading and writing. I apologize for the circumstances, that I may not be able to express myself in english in a proper way. I hope you would forgive me about that :D

-With regards to engaging enemies at 200m: Absolutely. 200m isnt even all that far. basic rifle qual is a 300m. It is relatively easy to hit a sub-man sized target at 300m with a M4 (from the prone that is). Qualifications for machine guns get out past 800m. Etc Etc. Typical combat ranges are dictated by terrain more than anything else. 

 

-The binos arent a substitute for a zoomed freelook, or vision fixes in general, because you have to get off your weapon and it takes too much time. Its turns spotting things into a weird meta game. 

 

-The big problem with incorrect viewing distances (whether you shoot or not) is how it affects tactics. People in squad right now are far too aggressive over open ground. They can also move too freely over areas because they cannot effectively be observed. It also creates a stupid effect where the squad leader is basically leading his squad of merry blind mend around. The squad leader right now is more of a forward observer for his 8 direct fire artillery than he is a infantry leader. 

 

-You cant fix the vision properly without a zoom. contrast and lod adjustments and AA adjustments will solve much of the default FOV issues, but not others. These fixes would for example, general spotting at range, but only to a point. They would not fix at all the much needed ability for people to pick out details at realistic ranges. Like uniforms, gear, cover etc. 

 

-The issue of reflex sniping is a problem for sure. This is why I advocate a delayed invisible cross-hair like PR had. This forced the player to track the target for a second or so before firing if the engagement wasn't point blank.  It prevented snap shots and alot made reflex sights like the M68 more realistic since they had much faster alignment since they do not really require proper sight picture. 

 

-I still dont get really why you dont like the zoom. You seem to be fine with a more substantial ADS zoom, just not one outside of ADS. The problem with this is that you could not freelook, and you would be stuck ultra zoomed in ADS. Which means I can use unzoomed ADS when im close to the enemy. I still fail to see what seems so unnatural to you about a toggle zoom for observation. To me it seems like a fairly standard game feature. It also makes alot of sense from the perspective of the human eye. Your eye has a small focus area (I think its like 30 degrees or something) and like 160 degrees of perifperal vision. So to me it makes perfect since to simulate this with two different FOV. 

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8 hours ago, Hvolute said:

Here is what is being suggested, among other things, for those who are not familiar:

 

its soooooooooooo crispyyyyy . is it like 4k ? or something .... i cried while watching this 

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@Hvolute

which screen size and what resolution are you playing with?

 

i recently tested a 28 inch ASUS 4K display and SQUAD looked phenomenylly sharp on it!

 

as i said there are so many more crucial issues to the game at this point, so in your case i would not expect anything like

a "zoom" to happen any time soon, if at all.

 

still i absolutely can not understand your point about "abstractions" it sounds very farfetched.

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2 hours ago, FIXXXER said:

@Hvolute

which screen size and what resolution are you playing with?

 

i recently tested a 28 inch ASUS 4K display and SQUAD looked phenomenylly sharp on it!

 

as i said there are so many more crucial issues to the game at this point, so in your case i would not expect anything like

a "zoom" to happen any time soon, if at all.

 

still i absolutely can not understand your point about "abstractions" it sounds very farfetched.

if you need to run game at 4k to make it look sharp .... you have a problem somewhere ...

 

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I don't care about abstractions and I don't care about the degree of realism, but I remember the time when in PR only a few kit got optics, hard times until  almost every kit (medic too) got optional optics. That changed the game for the better.

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10 minutes ago, virusman said:

if you need to run game at 4k to make it look sharp .... you have a problem somewhere ...

 

well, you do not have to, but if you have the chance to, i consider it desirable ;)

 

we can turn this around also, if you are playing on a 15' laptop with

a 1024x768 resolution and complaining that you can not see shit you have a problem somwehere aswell...

 

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there is common standard  of how image should look on FullHD .

i have 30' desktop and i play all my games on fullHD  (PR , GTA5 , COD , BF , HITMAN ) they all looks sharp and clear . ( and almost no one complain on there forums  )

in this game there is a problem and some people address the problem as it is . washed out blury visuals .

and instead of acknowledge the issue people looking for some poor excuses why it good as it is now ( more real , u cant see in real life that war  & much more ).

we as the costumers have the right to complain when the product is not delivering the standards .

( and running the game on 4K to get something that u should get on FULLHD is not an answer ) .

 

i myself working the blury visual with NVIDEA saturation and my inbuild screen Sharpness .

but it not how its should be in the begging 

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dude, don't get me wrong, i absolutely agree that SQUAD does not look as "sharp" as other games but the solution is NOT in adding things like  "zoom" to the game, that's it.

 

by increasing the screen size and resolution you can optimize the visibility, which can not be denied either.

Edited by FIXXXER

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