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Roskie

The focus makes you a superhuman

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As the topic says, explanation:

 

With the v10 we got new game mechanics like for example the overhauled weapon sway . One of the features of the squad is the ability to focus during aiming(as you all probably have noticed). The shift button makes you hold your breath.... and the effects of that is a something i cannot understand and accept. 

 

I'm an amateur shooter. I have some small experience with scoped rifle and pistols. With that experience comes one lesson - holding your breath DOES NOT makes you a stone statue. Your hands sway, wobble. Your body is standing on two legs which are not made of concrete thus your body sways in some aspect as well. And yes - you re breathing what also does not help to keep your aim steady. 

 

So i made a little research  - i measured how long you can keep your aim rock steady with the shift key - With full stamina its like 8-9 seconds in standing position. For this time your hands does not wobble AT ALL. You can hit anything at any distance as long your weapon is zeroed correctly.... how ridiculous is that ?  How real is that ? Is there any human that can do it ? 

Why we get a mechanic that would greatly fit an arcade game like the sniper elite but not the Squad. Its a military simulator for god sake. 

 

I believe this makes the game not realistic and arcade ( you get no weapon sway in quake as well... )  I belive the FOCUS could decrease the sway but must not remove it completely

 

What are your views on this matter? Do you think that Squad should remain as close to reality as its only possible? 

 

(sorry for any misspellings or bad english :)

 

 

 

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Devs have to work with display resolution being limited. IRL it's easier to aim because you can see the target better, and control the weapon sway much better. Yes you won't necessarily be rock steady as the game shows, but you'll be able to get rounds on target just the same. It's not a "handholding mechanic", it's abstracting away needless micro to achieve similar results as IRL.

 

And Squad is not alone - pretty much every FPS abstracts the shooting to some degree. It's not "realism" to add force the players to do more micro (in your case - time the weapons sway). That's no better than forcing players to constantly flip safety switches, smoothly press mouse button, tap W for every step, left-click shovel for every dig, etc. Shooting in Squad involves enough micro as is.

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my opinion is that it is handholding because it makes it easier for the player (read: less effort and skill required - less needless 'micro', as you put it) - that's what handholding means in this sort of context, afaik.

22 hours ago, tatzhit said:

That's no better than forcing players to constantly flip safety switches, smoothly press mouse button, tap W for every step, left-click shovel for every dig, etc.

you're talking Full-Mil-Sim, which is not even relevant to Squad.

22 hours ago, tatzhit said:

Shooting in Squad involves enough micro as is.

what? pointing at a target and pressing a button?

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So what you are saying is that you can either 1. Have a game that is fun to play or 2. Have a game where you get 0 kills. Hmmm... I wonder what 99.9% of players will choose. I love the way Squad plays, I am an old Project Reality player, where you counted in your head 3 seconds after sprinting so your aim would be 100% accurate, as fun as Project Reality was, it did not require much skill to play, proper positioning, using terrain to your advantage and communication was the key to high K/D. 

 

Furthermore, I would like to point out that when you are holding a rifle, you know what direction it will sway because you can feel it on your body, you  feel it with your fingers, hands and shoulder, so you can predict where its gonna move, we dont get that feeling in Video games. 

 

You talk about skill, Im not a ''pro'' by any means but I have played with different people, and you can tell who is brain dead and who isnt. I on average get +/- 20 kills infantry each game with less than 5 deaths. Its not skill, its my positioning, theres no aiming skill involved in squad. This is not CSGO, where the map is linear and enemy can only come from one side. I had instances where I wiped out a squads with 1 grenade, that doesnt require aiming skill, should we make grenades more realistic too? 

 

Please chill out with these threads. You want and extremely realistic game? Get yourself a VR headset and go play Onward, or better yet, join the Army. 

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36 minutes ago, LaughingJack said:

my opinion is that it is handholding because it makes it easier for the player (read: less effort and skill required - less needless 'micro', as you put it) - that's what handholding means in this sort of context, afaik.

you're talking Full-Mil-Sim, which is not even relevant to Squad.

what? pointing at a target and pressing a button?

So anything that makes things easier for the player is "handholding"? What about switching gears on vehicles? Taking off caps on RPG rockets? Spend 95% of game time pulling guard duty at main base because "realism"? Having no interactive map and constant comm problems? All of these things are much more "unrealistic" than focusing on target making it easier to shoot.

 

Good game design is GETTING RID of micro while still maintaining a good degree of realism and fun. That's what Squad should (and mostly does) strive towards. Not making it artificially hard to shoot by introducing real-life handicaps without any of the benefits real shooters enjoy (like, you know, human eye having more than 1600*1200 resolution?).

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Its a game, not real life, we gotta have some compensation to able to shoot these fricking weapons, the Ak's already have a awful sight to aim with.

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On 7.2.2018 at 12:29 AM, Roskie said:

As the topic says, explanation:

 

....

 

Im curious, looking at other military/shooting SIMULATIONS - which squad is not - like ArmA, Simhunt, Hunting simulator, the gunfighter... How realistic do you think is the shooting compared to squad?

 

Simple answer: Squad is more realistic than all the simulations. Case closed for me tbqh.

 

Weve fought quite hard to get the shooting mechanics how they are right now and most people are very happy with it. At the end of the day its a game and i have yet to come across someone in arma complaining about not having enough weapon sway/recoil.

 

 

Also LaughinJack shooting is exactly that, pointing at a target and pushing a button (pulling a trigger).

Edited by Chew_Kok_Long

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Holding the breath when aiming is ok i guess i dont think thats not realistic as much as zooming your eyes while using the iron sights now thats not realistic.

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4 hours ago, Bahrein said:

Holding the breath when aiming is ok i guess i dont think thats not realistic as much as zooming your eyes while using the iron sights now thats not realistic.

 

It represents the fact that human eye is capable of far more than 1600*1200 resolution, and thus when focusing on a certain area, one can see things more clearly

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21 minutes ago, tatzhit said:

 

It represents the fact that human eye is capable of far more than 1600*1200 resolution, and thus when focusing on a certain area, one can see things more clearly

Oooo ok i did not know that.Thanks for the info.It always felt funny when you aim like that in games and using in this case shift to zoom in a bit even with ought any optics 

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Focus is just a game mechanic. It's not overpowered.

 

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I believe focus is affected by the stamina. So if you're aiming and focusing while your stamina is very low, you should get a bit of sway.

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A quick video to demonstrate what the OP is talking about

 

 

Yes, I too think it's overpowered.

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Again I try not to insult op in this thread.

But clearly op and his fake realistic fans failed to realize how powerful the human eyes are, in the REAL WORLD.

Our eyes are limited by screen, but outside of screen you can see much farther.

The over powered zoom in you claimed is just a minor patch for the limitation of machine. 

 

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The problem the focus is that since you have so many optics available it makes being in the open at any time unsafe.

The game would be a lot nicer if engagements from long distance didn't end so quick because a guy with an Acog can make his sway disappear every time he wants to shoot.

 

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I posted this in response to the same topic in another thread....the guy is an uber geek but watch the entire video as it gives some context to the entire 'focus' debate in my view.

 

Hello Squad players,

 

Whilst completely new to the game, I read this topic with interest.  I subscribe to a channel where the guy fires old(er) weapons and has done the mad minute with the Lee Enfield, KAR98, Garand etc....on a range at (I believe 25m).  Now if you watch the link posted below with the Garand you'll see the target centre is annihilated even at this high rate of fire.  At 50 or even 100m I reckon he would still have hit a stationary human sized target easily.  Whilst I agree that a completely static reticule is unrealistic....the ability to put down concentrated fire at range and at pace is not (as shown in the video).  Removing focus in my opinion would mean that your dispersion (given even a few pixels worth of sway would mean feet of dispersion at 100m) would be unrealistic....you'd struggle to hit anything consistently.

 

 

Hope this makes sense and has not offended anyone.  See you on the battlefield!

 

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On 09/02/2018 at 11:25 AM, Chew_Kok_Long said:

Also LaughinJack shooting is exactly that, pointing at a target and pushing a button (pulling a trigger).

my point exactly - it's not that complex.

tatzhit is the one complaining that the effort of pointing is unnecessary "micro".

i'm not going to argue with tatzhit on this as he just sways between pointless extremes yet fails to acknowledge the high level of role playing in Squad which is all "micro".

 

my actual points are;  the final ADS zoom is ok (for the reasons tatzhit stated above(resolution of eyes)). IMO it should be the only ADS view - dump the "Focus" mechanic. - it's the "steadying" feature of the Focus mechanic that is my issue - i don't believe we should ever be able to hold the gun rock-solid at any time unless bi-podded.

Sway is the issue, not zoom.

 

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Guys chill out. I am pretty sure once weapon resting comes in the game, focus will not eliminate all sway. Rather resting your weapon will. Remember game is in alpha, we already had many placeholder features.

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