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BadVlad

V10 weapon muzzle control

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37 minutes ago, steffenbk1 said:

What point? you only see numbers of hours played. You cant surely be this retarded? 

At 200 hours in, you don't even know all of the map names yet...so tell me, how are you going to have a knowledgeable conversation about the meta of the game?

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17 minutes ago, odi said:

At 200 hours in, you don't even know all of the map names yet...so tell me, how are you going to have a knowledgeable conversation about the meta of the game?

So i have to know all the map names to be able to speak about my opinions? it is the equivalent as to say if  you can name all the capture points then on all the maps then? i dont see any relevance knowing the map name has to do with speaking about game mechanics of the game.   But the "meta" is the same as before, depending on the map and game mode it is just to rush the middle flag(if its not invasion) or the next flag after that, holding it to prevent them from capping it. 

 

But seriously you have no point other than having more hours or knowing all the map names? it is really stupid. 

Edited by steffenbk1

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SgrRoss the overall system is good but its just too much, its the feeling that you arent just fighting against the sway and recoil but are also fighting against bad gun handling skills and the resulting excessive and random recoil. I understand putting more skill into it by having the player control the gun more but there is a middle ground between too little and too much, I can admit that V9 may have been too little but I can readily say that V10 is too much. The perfect system is somewhere between the two and the way you will know it is when each class/role serves its purpose perfectly, right now the MG doesnt act like a support role because on a bipod you can out-shoot just about anyone, the rifleman doesnt seem to get any advantage from shooting prone or kneeling, shooting on the move is a joke, the result is that games become campy, people sneak around simply to get within a range they can actually hit something from, people get killed even when they get the jump on someone because their 2nd shot in semi went above the enemies head and then their frustration causes them to try and get even closer next time before shooting etc etc. There is some base level of weapon control that the game should give you, I call it training, your avatar is not some random with a gun but a soldier and they should have a level of marksmanship "built in".

 

Some people like the new mechanic as it is but, the history of video games sais that there will always be people who like the bad mechanics, and then other people stop playing because they dont, and then the developers dont know what the problem is because they have heard nothing but praise, so, the developers change other things thinking those must be the problem and the project goes fubar. I dont really want to argue against people who think its great because that is pointless, those people simply dont want it changed and thats that, but they also dont understand (or dont care) why it is so damaging to the game. I love Squad and that is why Im here, that is why I made a forum account and came to bring this up.

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odi thanks, I had over 1500 hours before but somehow got below 1400 now, not sure what happened there but whatever. You are right, people dont understand what certain things mean for game survival and longevity, Ive watched too many good games die because of changes made and not corrected and while I dont think Squad will die anytime soon this can definitely hurt the player base when people get frustrated of losing firefights because of game mechanics. Someone has to fight the good fight, I guess Im that huckleberry and I appreciate the support.

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5 hours ago, BadVlad said:

odi thanks, I had over 1500 hours before but somehow got below 1400 now, not sure what happened there but whatever. You are right, people dont understand what certain things mean for game survival and longevity, Ive watched too many good games die because of changes made and not corrected and while I dont think Squad will die anytime soon this can definitely hurt the player base when people get frustrated of losing firefights because of game mechanics. Someone has to fight the good fight, I guess Im that huckleberry and I appreciate the support.

Even though project reality had its "bad mechanics" with its deviation. and people are still playing it 13 years later. I think squad will be just fine. but what do i know, i'm not an MLG pro. i just play video games for fun :)

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6 hours ago, BadVlad said:

when people get frustrated of losing firefights because of game mechanics


People lose firefights because they made a mistake. Sometimes mistakes are inevitable. Like in your case.

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I liked the V10 gunplay mechanic better. Just my opinion. 

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V10 makes you control your weapon unlike V9. It's like a proper sim racing game vs an arcade racer.

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10 hours ago, BadVlad said:

...

Some people like the new mechanic as it is but, the history of video games sais that there will always be people who like the bad mechanics...

 

It's not a bad mechanic, it's different than what you expect and that's fine. I like the new handling because it gives weapons a feeling of physical presence they lacked before. I accept that they should be tweaked a bit but going too far back towards V9 would be a huge negative to me because I simply find that model uninteresting.

 

Pretending that the people who like the V10 weapon handling don't know what they're talking about doesn't serve your argument well, especially when your argument against them is personal preference.

 

This thread has quickly devolved into a shit-flinging contest that holds no value. Everyone please, try to be constructive with your criticism and don't try to *** measure with play time.

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On 8.2.2018 at 1:48 AM, Peerun said:

I haven't checked, but if you are running the same settings as Nimbus your sensitivity is probably too low to react fast enough.

 

 

What? 0.30 with 800 dpi is high sense. Im at 0.33 with 400 dpi and thats still considered high. Theres professional battlefield players that play with 50 inch/360 degree rotation - now that is what i call very low sense. And they werent pro players if it was "too low to react fast enough" in a super fast paced fps run and gun kinda (garbage) game.

 

Its not the others who have their sense too low, its you using a ridiculously high sensitivity. You may lack experience from other fps games regarding this but try playing csgo with your sensitivity...

No wonder you could master that v9 recoil, im willing to bet your shooting on long range was downright horrible though. How are you even going for headshots with this sensitivity? Spray and pray or? AND DONT GET ANGRY PLEASE, i dont want to throw shit at you im just legit baffled. Im sure youre a nice guy + good player and we can discuss this properly.

 

However, i think v10 is MUCH better than v9. Would still agree to further reduce the (vertical) recoil though.

 

I cant even tell why exactly, but the guns feel absolutely better. You have much more control and theyre way more responsive compared to the previous version.

 

I was waiting for this since ages and hearing people say v9 was better is giving me goosebumps.

 

 

Edit: I actually just went ingame with 800dpi and 0.30 and i can pull off a 360 with a single small handswipe. Why would anyone ever need to do that, you need to turn 180 degree at max. Unless youre constantly 360 headshooting people for fun of course, then i would understand. But then again having half of that sensitivity i can still 360 with a very large swipe. Its all personal preference anyway.

 

Also proof of 50 inch/360 just for fun. This IS NOT NORMAL though lmao.

 

 

I also have only 214 hours playtime, although it feels more like 50 hours playtime bcuz i already started playing before squad went on steam and only came back occasionally to check progress. I think Squad went on steam somewhere end 2015/beginning 2016 if i remember correctly.

Edited by Chew_Kok_Long

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Stom, I will repeat once again, when your character can barely keep the rifle on target at 11 yards ... thats a bad mechanic. Can you learn to compensate for it with the mouse and adjust your playstyle? Yes, yes you could, but thats not skill, thats you fighting the game to be effective. You guys have either never been to a range or are very, very bad shots if you think this is anywhere close to realistic accuracy and recoil. We took a girl out to the range, she has never fired a rifle before, showed her how to hold the AR and the basics, she was drilling the 100 yard target all day long from a supported position at a table, she was something like 110 pounds!!! Let me repeat that, a tiny girl, first time rifle shooting, regular Stag arms DI AR with the A2 birdcage, 100 yards all day.

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14 hours ago, odi said:

This is such a bad opinion, I can't even.

 

You have no clue of the consequences on game design or game longevity of what you are saying.

I have played enough PR, thanks.

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Can we agree wether its more or less recoil/sway than in v9 first may be?

 

Im getting confused. I kinda agree AND disagree with everyone here. Im also for less recoil while i still think v10 is miles better than v9.

 

Anyway thanks everyone for the drama, its highly appreciated. Keep it coming.

Edited by Chew_Kok_Long

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You say rifles are worse now like that's a bad thing. In PR, the rifleman class only had two things going for it: a full compliment of grenades, and extra ammo for the MG. This isn't an ego shooter, riflemen are the cannon fodder.

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3 minutes ago, BadVlad said:

Stom, I will repeat once again, when your character can barely keep the rifle on target at 11 yards ... thats a bad mechanic. Can you learn to compensate for it with the mouse and adjust your playstyle? Yes, yes you could, but thats not skill, thats you fighting the game to be effective. You guys have either never been to a range or are very, very bad shots if you think this is anywhere close to realistic accuracy and recoil. We took a girl out to the range, she has never fired a rifle before, showed her how to hold the AR and the basics, she was drilling the 100 yard target all day long from a supported position at a table, she was something like 110 pounds!!! Let me repeat that, a tiny girl, first time rifle shooting, regular Stag arms DI AR with the A2 birdcage, 100 yards all day.

 

The skill with the new system is less the physical response to recoil and more about risk mitigation with taking shots at long range. There are times in V10 where you need to simply not engage a target at range that would have been an easy kill in V9 and I personally find that more interesting because I've always preferred CQC rather than long range engagements and V10 excels in CQC. Once you're in close combat then you need to control the recoil for sure, but at those ranges it's not difficult to do so.

 

Also, I don't think it matters if it's realistic or not in this regard, we're playing characters via a keyboard and mouse so the physical handling of weapons is going to be wrong no matter what, may as well make it good for gameplay which I think it is.

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1 hour ago, cribbaaa said:

I have played enough PR, thanks.

51 minutes ago, Good-Try Greg said:

You say rifles are worse now like that's a bad thing. In PR, the rifleman class only had two things going for it: a full compliment of grenades, and extra ammo for the MG. This isn't an ego shooter, riflemen are the cannon fodder.

 

This game is not PR.

 

If you want PR, go play PR. Novel idea.

 

 

Edited by odi

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Stom you just proved my point, you enjoy CQB and this new setup forces people into CQB so you like it. The difference is that I see it as a negative, not the CQB part becase that was always there when storming fobs or on maps heavy with buildings, I see the game forcing you into CQB as a negative. We have a game with huge maps, all sorts of possible engagement distances with infantry weapons capable of accurate fire out to 300-800 yards, why would you want to limit the game like that? Because you like that play style? Isnt that a bit selfish?

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v9 gun play was easy and boring after few hours (like others 100 actual fps)

Finally we got a real skilled shooters and there are people that want AGAIN an easy and fast shooter.

 

Plz Devs, don t come back. Your game stands out from everyone else just for this.

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7 hours ago, BadVlad said:

Stom you just proved my point, you enjoy CQB and this new setup forces people into CQB so you like it. The difference is that I see it as a negative, not the CQB part becase that was always there when storming fobs or on maps heavy with buildings, I see the game forcing you into CQB as a negative. We have a game with huge maps, all sorts of possible engagement distances with infantry weapons capable of accurate fire out to 300-800 yards, why would you want to limit the game like that? Because you like that play style? Isnt that a bit selfish?

I don t really have any diffucult to shot from distance now. It s just a bit harder than v9 (fortunately)...in v9 the weapon management was too easy and did not require any tactical approach. Better tactict was: who shoots first and who has better reflexes, wins the fight. Like others commercial AAA fps.

No ty

Edited by Tmac

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3 hours ago, BadVlad said:

Stom, I will repeat once again, when your character can barely keep the rifle on target at 11 yards ... thats a bad mechanic. Can you learn to compensate for it with the mouse and adjust your playstyle? Yes, yes you could, but thats not skill, thats you fighting the game to be effective. You guys have either never been to a range or are very, very bad shots if you think this is anywhere close to realistic accuracy and recoil. We took a girl out to the range, she has never fired a rifle before, showed her how to hold the AR and the basics, she was drilling the 100 yard target all day long from a supported position at a table, she was something like 110 pounds!!! Let me repeat that, a tiny girl, first time rifle shooting, regular Stag arms DI AR with the A2 birdcage, 100 yards all day.

Dude the "Range" and Reality have almost nothing in common. Just watch some Helmet cam videos from Afghanistan and tell me that these professional soldiers do as well as you do down range. 

 

They dont.

 

Because in a real firefight you have such an insane amount of stress that it will always influence your accuracy and even your gun handeling, you will often be unable to go into a proper fireing stance because of the terrain and you carry at least 15kg extra arround with you sometimes for hours.

 

I assume you are no soldier so you can't really imagine that.

 

Every Child can fire a weapon in a safe enviroment like a range.

 

So in the end v10 gunplay is more realistic then v9 because Squad isn't a range simulator but a war simulator even if the recoil is exagerrated it is better for gameplay.

 

Just my 2 cents.

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20 minutes ago, MADsquirrel said:

Dude the "Range" and Reality have almost nothing in common. Just watch some Helmet cam videos from Afghanistan and tell me that these professional soldiers do as well as you do down range.

I agree. 

 

Having shot US Army standard issue M4s, M249s, 240Bs and M2s. The gunplay here is pretty accurate. Devs did a damn good job on V10. Sure it may need some tweaking but I'm really enjoying it. 

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3 hours ago, odi said:

 

This game is not PR.

 

If you want PR, go play PR. Novel idea.

 

 

You say that "I have no idea of the consequences.." when in reality I have spent countless of hours with the type of gameplay style I advocate, whether that is PR or some other game is irrelevant.

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1 hour ago, Chew_Kok_Long said:

 

v10 forcing you tinto CQB?

I just drop that here.

Same here. No particular difficolty

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4 hours ago, MADsquirrel said:

Dude the "Range" and Reality have almost nothing in common. Just watch some Helmet cam videos from Afghanistan and tell me that these professional soldiers do as well as you do down range. 

 

They dont.

 

Because in a real firefight you have such an insane amount of stress that it will always influence your accuracy and even your gun handeling, you will often be unable to go into a proper fireing stance because of the terrain and you carry at least 15kg extra arround with you sometimes for hours.

 

I assume you are no soldier so you can't really imagine that.

 

Every Child can fire a weapon in a safe enviroment like a range.

 

So in the end v10 gunplay is more realistic then v9 because Squad isn't a range simulator but a war simulator even if the recoil is exagerrated it is better for gameplay.

 

Just my 2 cents.

+1 This guy gets its

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