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BadVlad

V10 weapon muzzle control

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In v9 the whole screen would shake when you fire but in v10 only the rifle shakes. Being able to keep eyes on your target while firing in auto makes it much easier to use, while the increased muzzle sway makes it harder to use semi. I have no issues with it though when firing in controlled pairs (the shooter in you would know the difference between that and a double tap), and focusing.

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I noticed the same things you mentioned, made a compilation of several weapons, different stances, firemodes, handling, recoil pattern etc.
Might be a bit boring, just scroll through the action:

 

 

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6 hours ago, Cavazos said:

In v9 the whole screen would shake when you fire but in v10 only the rifle shakes. Being able to keep eyes on your target while firing in auto makes it much easier to use, while the increased muzzle sway makes it harder to use semi. I have no issues with it though when firing in controlled pairs (the shooter in you would know the difference between that and a double tap), and focusing.

Shooting on full auto even on close range is still absolutely impossible as you can see in the video of Nimbus. Overall the shooting was improved, if anything please reduce the vertical recoil on fullauto.

 

You seem to be obsessed with the wish that single fire is the ONLY way to fire at least somewhat accurate. Aka hit a truck on 5m distance.

 

Dont understand how you can think v9 was any better. The weapon sway, too much recoil, generally artificially making shooting much more difficult than it really is. Especially with the increased recoil on fullauto that was done on purpose to force people to use single fire. Now its better in MY honest opinion.

 

Do you guys by any chance use a high mouse sensitivity? May be thats why you were able to control that recoil in v9, but at 30cm/360 degree rotation it was downright ridiculous, looking at the sky on fullauto after 10-15 rounds.

Edited by Chew_Kok_Long

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Forgot to mention: in-game mouse sensitivity: 0.30, mouse at 800 DPI, Logitech G502.

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Nimbus that video shows it very well, the avatar can barely keep the rifle on target at 10 meters and the muzzle jumps randomly as if he isnt holding the rifle very well and thats just the M4! And then you went full auto and its a complete mess. Thank you for actually doing this, I was going to record a video like this but you did a great job. I like how being prone doesnt seem to help that much if at all. That moment when your pistol did better than the M4 with a red dot :D 10 meters Carl! Thats 11 yards!!!

 

Meanwhile in Soviet Russia

 

Edited by BadVlad

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On 5.02.2018 at 9:05 AM, BadVlad said:

Dubs Im sorry but are you guys slow or stupid? Go to the range, full stamina, you can even go prone and hold your breath and see what the muzzle does. Yes I can practice, change the way I play and get used to the terrible accuracy and muzzle control that we now have but I would rather have it fixed instead.

Aiming now is terribly easy ( im talking about single shots only ). Now with the "focus" key you can completely eliminate your weapon sway. How is that real ? Can you do it in real life ? 

 

 

btw : I set up my account here due to very different reasons.

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You guys need to stop expecting the game to keep the gun steady for you and do it yourselves. I haven't checked, but if you are running the same settings as Nimbus your sensitivity is probably too low to react fast enough. If you can't turn on a dime, so to say, without lifting your mouse your sensitivity is probably definitely too low or you don't have enough space on your desk.
The difference between V9 and V10 is definitely night and day, but that doesn't mean you can't shoot accurately in V10, even on full auto. It just means you can't rely on muscle memory at all times and have to actually communicate with the gun/pay attention to the feedback it gives you.

Edited by Peerun

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Peerun did you watch the video Nimbus linked? Watch it and then understand that this is 11 YARDS!!! I dont know what else to say here, this is like talking to people who think modern guns have the same accuracy and control as a flintlock pistol.

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10 hours ago, BadVlad said:

Peerun did you watch the video Nimbus linked? Watch it and then understand that this is 11 YARDS!!! I dont know what else to say here, this is like talking to people who think modern guns have the same accuracy and control as a flintlock pistol.

And I guess you haven't watched the video Dubs posted. Here's a recap from my perspective.

 

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V10 is a step in the right direction, if anything I'd like to see more recoil and sway to prolong firefights, makes the combat more about the squad element and positioning rather than raw aim.

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2 hours ago, cribbaaa said:

V10 is a step in the right direction, if anything I'd like to see more recoil and sway to prolong firefights, makes the combat more about the squad element and positioning rather than raw aim.

+1

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3 hours ago, cribbaaa said:

V10 is a step in the right direction, if anything I'd like to see more recoil and sway to prolong firefights, makes the combat more about the squad element and positioning rather than raw aim.

+1

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3 hours ago, cribbaaa said:

V10 is a step in the right direction, if anything I'd like to see more recoil and sway to prolong firefights, makes the combat more about the squad element and positioning rather than raw aim.

This is such a bad opinion, I can't even.

 

You have no clue of the consequences on game design or game longevity of what you are saying.

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On 05/02/2018 at 8:19 AM, BadVlad said:

Hey guys, love the game, long time player with over 1500 hours, generally love V10 so far BUT the new muzzle control is just ... terrible. At first I couldnt figure out what the problem was, I used to average over 20 kills per game and was very good at hitting at distance, then in V10 I was consistently missing people that were just 50 yards away and should have been an easy shot! I played a dozen matches completely dumbfounded and then I went to the range in the game, took out the M4 which is supposed to be the least recoil and muzzle rise and fired it in semi-auto at a wall only 50 yards away, what I saw made my jaw drop, the muzzle rise and sideways movement with every shot are massive and inconsistent, sometimes your gun jumps right, sometimes left, jumps different distances, your character makes barely any effort to stabilize the muzzle and no effort at all to put the gun back on target after every shot, so, after just two shots (maybe even just one depending on distance to target) you are shooting at the sky.

 

And that was just the M4, you can imagine what it looks like when you pick up guns with heavier recoil! I understand this happening in full auto while firing a SAW or an RPK but in semi on an M4 or an AK74 this is ridiculous. I shoot in real life and own many of the guns you see in the game and I can tell you that the muzzle control that your character has in V10 is similar to someone who has barely any if not 0 experience shooting a rifle, like if you gave a 16 year old an AR for the first time and told them to shoot at a target you get basically what I saw in game. Squad always had the sight movement (sway) and even though I thought it was a bit much in certain situations it was still realistic, you just had to keep your stamina up and hold your breath for the shots and you got good accuracy and stability like a trained shooter would, what you get now is a guy that puts a hole in the ceiling when trying to doubletap a target! It gets even funnier when you try to fire a SAW standing up, sometimes the dot comes back to the height where it started, sometimes it stays where it stopped, its a mess, almost as if someone wrote a script that kicks the barrel around randomly and it lands where it lands.

 

It is so bad that I made a forum account to bring it up, seriously guys go to the range and try different guns at a wall 50 yards away, try it in semi, try doubletapping, watch what happens to the muzzle, those of you that shoot will instantly know, the rest of you go watch some videos on youtube of professionals shooting those guns and compare. Fun thing to do: take different guns and try to do rapid semi-auto grouping at 25 yards, you are going to laugh.

Think there is a game out then for you, Its call of duty :D

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16 hours ago, Peerun said:

if you are running the same settings as Nimbus your sensitivity is probably too low to react fast enough. If you can't turn on a dime, so to say, without lifting your mouse your sensitivity is probably definitely too low or you don't have enough space on your desk.

Lol...so utterly wrong. The best aimers use very low sensitivity. This is a maxim of the competitive FPS world.

 

@BadVlad Another 1400 hour player here. You are completely right dude about everything you've written. Don't be discouraged by these casual players posting who have literally no clue what they are talking about because they have <20 hours in game and are still in their cinematic immersion honeymoon.

 

7 minutes ago, steffenbk1 said:

Think there is a game out then for you, Its call of duty :D

 

Stupid post, go away.

Edited by odi

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38 minutes ago, odi said:

Lol...so utterly wrong. The best aimers use very low sensitivity. This is a maxim of the competitive FPS world.

 

@BadVlad Another 1400 hour player here. You are completely right dude about everything you've written. Don't be discouraged by these casual players posting who have literally no clue what they are talking about because they have <20 hours in game and are still in their cinematic immersion honeymoon.

 

 

Stupid post, go away.

the hours played doesn't mean you have any more say than a guy who has 20 hours. Going by the mentallity is idiotic and ignorant.  Futher more Bosting about how much you have played comes of no good, since you just come out as a prick when you do so, and in this case you seem to be one. 

 

 

And when you respond to opinions like this 

 

1 hour ago, odi said:

This is such a bad opinion, I can't even.

 

You have no clue of the consequences on game design or game longevity of what you are saying.

 

then i think you are the one who should go away. You write "i can't even", you write like how a 14 year old would talk. You come with no input on why you think the opinion is bad.

Quote

"You have no clue of the consequences on game design" 

Yeah because i bet YOU are... not a chance. 

 

i think you and your buddy @BadVlad can go circle jerk somewhere else on your really bad opinions on v10, if your not willing to see the other point of view and with out just dismissing others opinions 

Edited by steffenbk1

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22 minutes ago, steffenbk1 said:

the hours played doesn't mean you have any more say than a guy who has 20 hours. 

Are you joking? Absolutely it does because we know this game inside and out. Someone with few hours doesn't have a god damned clue what they are talking about, and as someone who has been playing FPS competitively for 15 years, I know what good game design is and what isn't.

Quote

You come with no input on why you think the opinion is bad.

That's because his opinion is so outrageously and horrifically wrong that I ask myself, where do I even start?

 

If any of y'all played Squad at a high level then you would already know that positioning was incredibly important in V9.

 

It's like he doesn't even want to play a game where any kind of aim skill is rewarded. Hmm, thought it was supposed to be a first person shooter, not a first person positioning game? Maybe there is a VR yoga sim y'all can check out where you can hold positions for 4 minutes and focus on your breathing.

Quote

 

i think you and your buddy @BadVlad can go circle jerk somewhere else on your really bad opinions on v10, if your not willing to see the other point of view with out dismissing their opinions 

You have no concept of what good game design is, that's why your feedback and opinions are not worth responding to, especially when you say "lalala everything is fine, go play cod".

Edited by odi

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The point I see you are failing to realize, is that that is the point and is the way it was intended to be. 

If you want easy weapons, please go play battlefield or cod

Edited by Engagedrook8

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18 minutes ago, odi said:

 

You have no concept of what good game design is that's why your feedback and opinions are not worth responding to.

And yet.... you responded. is the "you have no concept on game design" your only stick? it seems so. 

 

Quote

 

Are you joking? Absolutely it does because we know this game inside and out. Someone with few hours doesn't have a god damned clue what they are talking about, and as someone who has been playing FPS competitively for 15 years, I know what good game design is and what isn't.

of course a player with less hours dosent know as much about the game, but that dosent mean you can shut their opinion down like you do. If you think someone has a bad opinion then explain why that is so...  And the last part is a joke i hope, just because you have played games for 15 years dosen't equivalent to you knowing what is good and what isn't. 

 

 

Quote

That's because his opinion is so outrageously and horrifically wrong that I ask myself, where do I even start?

 

Start by writing maybe? or are you too incompetent? well you responded well to me so i dont see why you cant respond to him, but dont be an asshole.

 

Quote

If any of y'all played Squad at a high level then you would already know that positioning was incredibly important in V9.

That is something you can say about all fps'es. And it still is in v10. Im not sure where you get this "high level" from.  i've seen your videos.

 

 

Quote

It's like he doesn't even want to play a game where any kind of aim skill is rewarded. Hmm, thought it was supposed to be a first person shooter, not a first person positioning game? Maybe there is a VR yoga sim y'all can check out.

Aim skill was definitely not rewarded in v9... and if you think so, i would love to hear why you think gun play was more rewarded in v9 then v10.

 

 

 

 

Edited by steffenbk1

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7 minutes ago, steffenbk1 said:

That is something you can say about all fps'es. And it still is in v10. Im not sure where you get this "high level" from.  i've seen your videos.

lol

 

Keep deluding yourself and playing in your crappy pubs against players who just bought the game. Or get 23 of your best players and come scrim us (I know you won't though).

 

edit: Looked up your profile: 230 hours on record, LMAO

 

Point ****ing proven.

Quote

 

Aim skill was definitely not rewarded in v9... 

lol

Edited by odi

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8 minutes ago, odi said:

lol

 

Keep playing in your crappy pubs. Or get 23 of your best players and come scrim us (I know you won't though).

lol

You have the mentality of cod and league players, your acting like those who get upset in those games and result to " 1v1 me m8" and just toxic behaviour.

 

And "lol" is your best answer? guess i'm not too surprised. 

 

Edit: 

Quote

edit: Looked up your profile: 230 hours on record, LMAO

 

Point ****ing proven

What point? you only see numbers of hours played. You cant surely be this retarded? 

Edited by steffenbk1

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17 minutes ago, steffenbk1 said:

Aim skill was definitely not rewarded in v9... and if you think so, i would love to hear why you think gun play was more rewarded in v9 then v10.

In what way? Was there no need to aim, did the game aim for you? Or was there no reward in having good aim and subsequently killing the other team?
Or was there no skill involved?

21 minutes ago, Engagedrook8 said:

The point I see you are failing to realize, is that that is the point and is the way it was intended to be. 

If you want easy weapons, please go play battlefield or cod

Misrepresenting the original point and a false dichotomy.

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Just now, Nimbus said:

In what way? Was there no need to aim, did the game aim for you? Or was there no reward in having good aim and subsequently killing the other team?
Or was there no skill involved?

There was not as great of a aim skill compared to now, i'll rephrase it. Compared to v10 there is a huge difference. With v9 there was easier to shoot since you didnt have gun sway, or stamina didnt effect your aim as much as now. v9 was muce more of arcade ish feeling gunplay wise. As someone said earlier, the gunplay now is much closer to something like red orchestra. 

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Please keep it cordial here, there is no need for name calling and does not help efficiently provide feedback for us to work with.

 

We are closely watching the overall feeling of the community, and we will do our best to keep everyone's viewpoint in mind with any further modifications to the system.

 

Keep in mind that this system is here to stay for the time being. It took our team quite a long time to nail down something that we can work with and are happy with how the system is set up at the moment.

 

However, there will likely be tweaks that occur over time as we take in more feedback. Please keep in mind that everyone will have their own opinions on the game and there are hundreds of thousands of players that we have to consider overall. Social media, forums, etc. are but a slice of the overall player base.

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That is something different indeed. There was a tiny bit of sway in V9, with full stamina at 10m in V10 it seems a bit excessive, judging from my experience with firearms and target shooting. But I think the sway wasn't the biggest gripe on behalf of the topic starter and not what I tried focusing on in my recording, more-so the erratic and at times exaggerated recoil, which feel like someone with bad trigger control and soft-shouldering.
Even with the increased sway, the first shot is not much harder to take, aiming in that regard isn't much more difficult i.e aiming in and on itself, getting a good sight picture, etc. etc. is pretty similar. Follow up shots are a whole different matter, and since almost no one goes down with one shot of the standard issue rifles... This mostly concerns the M4(A1), the AK74 looks and feels almost identical to V9, think the 74 now shoots better than the M4, were in V9 I far preferred the M4. 

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