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Shovely Joe

We need actual information from OWI about development progess

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you are all hyped for V10, and so am I. I played a bit this Beta and it's "great".

I bought the game back in early 2016 when we were still walking everywhere and there has been some great updates since then. vehicles, emplacements and now the animation system. Back then the game was set to release 2017. Now it basically says "maybe by the end of 2018" on steam.

Now i think i've (and all of us really) have been patient, and gone along with the "it's ready when it's ready" which ofcourse is true, as with any alpha or pre-launch access... BUT frankly i would like for OWI to make some more solid statements as to what we're actually to expect from the development progress and timeframe for 1.0 launch with all the teased features and so on.



1. The coming features that have been confirmed or teased by OWI seem to be of much greater complexity than those features they have implemented so far (last 2 years of my playtime) - i'm talking Javelins that work, helicopters, better physics, tanks, electronics like thermals and so on, dragging teammates, inventory system and of course better performance. I mean i have some friends who still can't launch the game even though they have the specs for it. With this said i'm aware they are working on different stuff at the same time, but in my experience with the development so far and the monthly recaps, I find it quite unlikely that OWI will be done in 2018. 

Since I haven't seen OWI take any kind of responsibility towards actually explaining the overall delay of the roadmap. the "please understand we won't work during christmas" post and so on is only explaining why a small beta is not up for longer, and it's been a long time since i've heard them talk about development on a grand scale. I feel and fear we are going into eternal alpha, or at least at much longer alpha-state than we were told it would be.

The monthly recaps are basically worthless only showcasing half-done maps and maybe 1 or 2 weapon models... that's not progress toward the goal of release, it's just stalling.

So please OWI, take responsibility for the delay. I knew this could happen when i bought the alpha. I paid full retail price 36.99 euro for a game that was no where near worth that kind of money and still isn't. And that's okay. If you will actually be frank with the players who are supporting you by telling us the truth about the current state of development: what is done, what is not, what will be done, what is scrapped and so on. what kind of problems are you dealing with that makes it so hard to stay on schedule? You have had much bigger success than what you thought initially and the team has grown much, shouldn't that have made everything go faster? or did you also up your own expectations and standards for the end result?

I still have high hopes for the game, but i feel that I and the rest of the players have been let down by OWI, and I apologize for the tone, but please let the radio silence die. now.




 

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I think the team needs to grow, even though OWI made the ground base for Post Scriptum with their vehicles, how come that team has managed to pump out so many vehicles already but Squad only has a handful of them.

 

I also think V10 has halted their production allot, V10 basically now is the base for the game where most is completed, so now they can really start cranking out new assets.

 

Now, gimme that shotgun!!

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If any we lost a bloody classic HUMVEE to something its easily fixed by name and model manipulation... Unbelivable.

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13 hours ago, Sgt. Veld said:

...how come that team has managed to pump out so many vehicles already but Squad only has a handful of them.

That's because the PS devs barely need to do any code for the foundation in their game, the Squad devs do all that work, and the PS devs just take it and make assets on it.

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I hate to, but have to agree with this.

 

I played PR since it's inception and was only full of hope that a modernized version of it was being developed. I fully understand the "it's ready when it's ready" mentality and the concept that V10 is a finished base for larger implementations in the, hopefully, near future.

 

However, I am less than pleased with  the progress of the game despite the revenue generated from Sales. It's my opinion that they've got artists at a dime a dozen but are severely lacking in programmers to make up for it. I see no other reason for why this has taken so long.

 

Furthermore, they semi-recently introduced a new community manager. I assumed with that we would be clued in on more detailed information about Squad's development. We are not receiving progress updates and access to enough information in a timely manner.

 

I'm a programmer by trade, however I work in the business world. I don't have the slightest clue what all it entails to do what they do, but I imagine their operating costs have in no way come close to or exceeded the revenues generated by the sale of the game.

 

But somehow they've managed to use, presumably money made from the sale of Squad, to finance mods that use a lot of Squad's resources to somehow make a game that has progressed exponentially faster. I love this game but I think it's been idling at in what I call "development purgatory". Although, maybe my views would change if the community was actually provided with timely information and we were able to view the status of the development sprints.

 

I've spoken to quite a few long time PR vets that seem to share the same opinions on this topic. I see OWI making many of the same mistakes that the PR dev team has made in the past, however this time they're being paid to do it.

Edited by Clean

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15 hours ago, Shovely Joe said:

snip
I still have high hopes for the game, but i feel that I and the rest of the players have been let down by OWI, and I apologize for the tone, but please let the radio silence die. now.

 

^Not true...speak for yourself.

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I see OWI doing a great job. I've played PR for 10 years and I have the opposite opinion. Every few months, the gameplay gets major upgrades.

 

Other alphas I play are the same.game after two years. I played Squad two years ago and it was vastly different. And OWI provides two to three news updates a month.

 

OWI isn't a giant money company like EA who can force finish a game in a few months. A lot of them are former PR devs, and those guys Dev for fun in their free time.

 

Coming together to make a game company, is going to have it's challenges. Especially when you're going against billion dollar companies that have been established for a decade or two.

 

Maybe they did think it would be finish by 2017, but there is a reason why every single developing team's release date is "ready when it's ready". Because when you are actually a developer, you understand why that timeline is the most accurate of all.

 

The only companies that can get a game released at a certain time for sure, are billion dollar game companies who can hire a ton of people who are all being overworked just in the name of getting it out on that date. Just so they can make more money.

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Coming from a game development point of view (as I am one (not for OWI)), things take way way way longer than you would initially expect. Even back in uni, a great rule of thumb for scheduling things was take a real good look and actually put a realistic time that it would take to complete that task, feature, map, model etc, and then times that by 3! 

 

There is so much that can slow the progress of game creation, and just throwing more money at it does not directly result in quicker progress. Sure, it helps, but one persons error in code could halt the progress of another individual, 2 people, 3, a team and their work and create knock on effects. What OWI are doing are trying to create new features, putting in new code and adding to the game. But they then have to polish that as they go, test the new code, debug it for any errors, fix bugs and release regular updates to us which need to be in a very good stable and playable state. That back and forth slows the progress of game development down, especially when it comes back to working with older code that was created at the start of the project, having to add new code to accommodate new features, or potentially rip it out and start from scratch because the old code doesn't facilitate the new updated design and feature sets. Unless they've spec'ed everything out fully from the very start to the very end, and covered everything they wanted, creating code and iterating on it without running into issues is going to be tough. 

 

As for the rate of progress vs Post Scriptum, exactly as @Guan_Yu007 said; OWI are creating the game essentially from nothing where-as the code is all already there for PS. Sure OWI are using an engine, but they had very little in the way of a base to start from are having to code out all the feature set, vehicles, weapons from the ground up. PS however have the base from Squad. The code is already there, all they have to do is add in the models, punch in the numbers in data and tweak values for the new vehicles, weapons, and then do a little bit of coding to iron out any potential issues they come across. I'm sure PS have coders and are doing some themselves to fit their designs, but the main base is already there to build upon with things already working in a good reliable state. I'm not trying detract anything away from the work that the guys making PS are doing, as I'm very excited to see the final product and get my hands on it and play it at some point, but their rate of progress is going to be much much faster that OWI's because they will likely have more modelers. 

 

Personally, the rate at which OWI are working at and releasing builds is good! Each build they are releasing is in a very solid and stable state for the majority of players, and if there are any larger wider issues, they are quick to turn around a hot fix and get it out. You could say that things should come out quicker, but there is no point in pushing out updates and hot fixes if it isn't tested properly, and goes and breaks something else and creates another 5 to the 1 fix you were making. Quality > Quantity.

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V10 took at least 6 months longer because they had animators working on new system via blueprints that a programmer had to convert to C++, instead of having programmers work on it from the start.

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On 2/5/2018 at 7:22 PM, Xx-RAGING-DEATH-xX said:

^Not true...speak for yourself.

I should be entitled to feel whatever i want to :) i didn't say you were let down, I said i feel that you have been let down. And I do.

In the august 2017 recap the big headline is "Animation System Update - Almost there!". Then February 2018 it drops, 7 months later. if 7 months is what counts for almost there, when it comes to an update, then we're really far off from 1.0.

and for the time it's taking, i'm not saying it should'nt take this long or that they're slow, because i have no idea of how you make a game, but when you are long overdue your initially communicated timeframe, I think it's only fair that you tell people why it's delayed.

There is a lot of community support for this game, they even said so themselves that most maps and a lot of modding is going to make this game really worthwhile - and i totally support and agree with that. It should be a two-way street. I also had high hopes when the new community manager was hired, but he's basically just chillin and chattin on the forums (i haven't done the full research i must admit), and not really being the dev teams voice on the forums creating "official" threads and messages on these topics. 

Edited by Shovely Joe

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Try reading updates sometime, coming from someone who was in the closed pre Alpha when going prone wasn't even a thing... this game has come a hell of a long way.

 

You quoted about August recap, but then 2 months later they put out This Update from October explaining exactly what the hurdles have been and where they are.  How is that not letting you know what is going on?

 

 

They said how much more was to be done and that was just over 3 months ago.  Core inventory had to be sidelined for the moment, so there is another thing that needs a lot of work... to which other things are hanging on it's completion.

Edited by Carlos

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On 09/02/2018 at 5:11 PM, Shovely Joe said:

I should be entitled to feel whatever i want to :) i didn't say you were let down, I said i feel that you have been let down. And I do.

 

Apologies mate for jumping the gun. 

The only dig I've is the communication or lack off on this Forum from our boy's, I know they're busy as bee's but if they can post on the likes of Facebook,twitter,Reddit they should show some love to the official Forum...

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Everything looks good to me. The pace has been slow for this year due to the new animation system but my God was it worth it. Now that the animation system is in and after they work out the remaining kinks I think we will see another influx of assets and such you all are dieing for.

My only worries are that they will undertake another daunting task like this animation system and slow down development again. At some point devs have to stop the vision process and just work with what they got.

 

Im in full support of squad devs and management.they make a good effort to communicate what's going on behind the scenes. The product is solid....solid as **** actually. And it's only going to get better.imo the only thing squad needs now is bigger maps and more assets Such as air/armor assets.

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v10 is cool and all, but it broke modding. Multiple bugs still exist that imo are pretty gamebreaking. I just think the community would have been happier with more assets/maps/content rather than an animation system but what do I know. Squad isn't a bad game, it's just becoming stale atm for some of us. OWI's only direct fault imo is not communicating well, but they're busy making a game so I get that. To be honest though, the only thing keeping this game alive is lack of a better alternative on the market. 

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On 2/10/2018 at 10:06 AM, Xx-RAGING-DEATH-xX said:

Apologies mate for jumping the gun. 

The only dig I've is the communication or lack off on this Forum from our boy's, I know they're busy as bee's but if they can post on the likes of Facebook,twitter,Reddit they should show some love to the official Forum...

We're here, don't worry. =) People come to JoinSquad.com for Squad information, and we don't want to change that. An upcoming website redesign should also help spruce things up a bit.

 

Something we've also been trying to do is make sure the responses that happen on reddit also get reposted over here where relevant. That said, some things (like Axton's recent map streams) are always getting to be better suited to social media just due to the more ephemeral nature. (Though those streams can be viewed here: https://www.twitch.tv/axtonsquad/videos/all, if you're interested in mapping, or the upcoming Kamdesh map.)

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