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Ceceli

About Radio and noise pollution

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Make. This. Happen.

 

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Radio is a tool to communicate with others and organize who does what. Period. For everything else, you have the local voice chat.

But a lot of people think the radio is just a ingame voice chat instead of using Discord, TeamSpeak or whatever. And even worse than that is Squad Leaders who use the G (general SL frequency) instead of directly talking to another SL (using numpad 1 to 9) about specific things or to chitchat.

 

The main ideia here is not to impose a way about how people play the game, but to offer the option to hardcore players not to have to endure this kind of disruptive behaviour. Countless times I have died while doing an incursion because I couldn't here the enemy over the noise pollution, resorting to muting the command or squad leader channel for the entire match - 'cause I won't be openning the menu every time to turn it on and off again.

 

Like in real life, the soldier would have the option to just remove the earphones. After the incursion is complete, plug the earphones again, since people talk more than my grandmom and her friends at the bingo.

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simply add a button which attenuates the radio (makes it quieter without turning it off). As if you pull the earpiece out to be able to hear better.

 

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Unsure if I like the idea of muting or lowering the volume of the command channel with a hotkey because sometimes it CAN get hectic when my focus as SL should be with my squad on the objective. But on the other hand it could result in SL's purposefully tuning out of command channel because they're with their clan mates on discord/TS or wtv have you. This will result in a much worst gameplay for those who rely on in-game chat (like myself and many others) to get things done. I'm on the fence on this one.

 

Also I DESPISE the whisper direct comms channel between SL's (numpad). I think this should be removed ASAP. 

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I agree the command channel comms can be alot to manage, especially when radio discipline is not being established from the start of a round.

 

CptDirty curious why would you despise the direct comm channel?

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4 minutes ago, fuzzhead said:

CptDirty curious why would you despise the direct comm channel?

Well because every time it is used by another SL to communicate with me it happens a the exact same with the Command Channel by a third SL, Squad chat by one of my guys AND local with whoever is near me. That is 4x channels to listen to with 2 ears with absolutely no way of distinguishing between them....

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Quote

That is 4x channels to listen to with 2 ears with absolutely no way of distinguishing between them....

 

Yes I've witnessed this, and obviously not an ideal situation...

 

although in my mind, command channel is more of the problem than the individual direct SL comm channels....

 

its definitely a tricky situation.... by giving a quick mute option, you dont want that to dissuade players from using the built-in VOIP system altogether to have higher tier tactics & strategy amougst squad leaders, as that will inherently close off organic growth of quality squad leaders throughout the game and community.

 

however the jamming up comms is still a problem...

 

i've talked about this with some people i play with, and some options to explore

 

suds suggestion: simple keypress that attenuates the radio, esepecially useful when talking in local or in midst of a firefight. realistic option, and probably not that hard to add.

 

another idea is to have the command channel have a limited "range". this way squads that are working in the same area, say 400-500m, will be able to quickly talk to each other and form and execute tactics, but you wont have to worry about listening to what 2 other squads are discussing when they are halfway across the map. and if for example a logistics or transport squad has to contact another squad that is out of range, they still have the option for direct SL comms channel.

Edited by fuzzhead

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Coms can get hectic... Something I've posted as a possible solution.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, fuzzhead said:

another idea is to have the command channel have a limited "range". this way squads that are working in the same area, say 400-500m

I have to disagree. By limiting the range for command channel you are effectively rendering the cooperation element of squad ineffective...How will I tell SQ2 to come help me (SQ1) defend village when they're fighting on Papanov (Fool's Road)....

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58 minutes ago, CptDirty said:

How will I tell SQ2 to come help me (SQ1) defend village when they're fighting on Papanov (Fool's Road)....

You could press numpad #2 and say "Squad2 this is Squad1, message over"

 

Squad2 preses numpad and says "Send message Squad1"

 

And then you press numpad#2 again and proceed to tell him your request...

 

Command channel value has to be assessed, as like you said, too much comms is unmanageable.

 

My limited range command channel is just an idea... But I agree with OP that the current game dynamics encourages (or does nothing to discourage) needless banter on command channel, which negatively impact squads that are heavily using proximity comms.

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@fuzzhead Situation:

 

I'm SL1. SL2 & SL3 are in direct comms between themselves (not on command channel) and are figuring out a plan of action for the next point. I think I'd like to be able to hear what they're planning to do, what vehicles they're taking, what kind of enemy resistance is up ahead, etc...basically if I'm tuned out of the command chat due to distance it will severely mess up my squad's efficiency because I'll be going in blind. Unless SL2 or SL3 decided to explain their plan to me. If they both talk directly to me at the same time it'll only be worst. Not to mention failure to relay the full message or the wrong message....

 

Long story short, implementing a range limit on command channel = BAD. 

 

Personally I'd remove the whisper/direct comms and just have 3 channels (Command, Squad, Local) that's it. With an added ability to muffle command chat with a hotkey that toggles the volume bar of the command chat between two predetermined volume levels -> 5% low and 25% high on a 100% scale. This way I can toggle quickly between a normal volume level I normally use (25%) and a low (5%) when in/out of battle.

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one would think that those 'hard-core' players would be playing on a Harder-core server anyway, if they're really serious about it, and thus unlikely to come across too much of the disruptive issues cited.

Muting could be a good 'option' to have bit i'd prefer it to be a two-key stroke not a single-key, using up vaulable keys for other more important uses make it something like Ctrl or Alt + V, B or G - more intuative, imo ( ConTRoL or ALTer the volume ... hmm?  ;) ).

2 hours ago, CptDirty said:

...  implementing a range limit on command channel = BAD.

ohh, absolutely!

as for the whisper channels; i just see this as a potential way for some tools to whiteant other SL's by hiding stuff - if 4-5 SL's cannot cooperatively use the channel without abusing it then maybe they shouldn't be SL'ing.

 

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8 hours ago, CptDirty said:

@fuzzhead Situation:

 

I'm SL1. SL2 & SL3 are in direct comms between themselves (not on command channel) and are figuring out a plan of action for the next point. I think I'd like to be able to hear what they're planning to do, what vehicles they're taking, what kind of enemy resistance is up ahead, etc...basically if I'm tuned out of the command chat due to distance it will severely mess up my squad's efficiency because I'll be going in blind. Unless SL2 or SL3 decided to explain their plan to me. If they both talk directly to me at the same time it'll only be worst. Not to mention failure to relay the full message or the wrong message....

 

Long story short, implementing a range limit on command channel = BAD. 

 

Personally I'd remove the whisper/direct comms and just have 3 channels (Command, Squad, Local) that's it. With an added ability to muffle command chat with a hotkey that toggles the volume bar of the command chat between two predetermined volume levels -> 5% low and 25% high on a 100% scale. This way I can toggle quickly between a normal volume level I normally use (25%) and a low (5%) when in/out of battle.

Guess it comes down to preference...

To me, I don't feel i need to be involved with a detailed conversation between SL2& SL3, especially if they are out of my range of action. Listening in to every little minutia of their planning, takes me away from my own task at hand. The bantering back and fourth about what they are going to do, can be left up to them.

 

When they've cemented their plan of action and they are about to step off, a quick message to me (if it's even relevant to my Squad) is all that's really needed IMO...

 

I don't know if a limited range command net would be the best solution, it was just one idea to change the way players used the command radio. However I think removing the individual SL channels would be a step in the wrong direction, giving less control to the player. Especially when it comes to Squad Leaders directing in mortar fire, etc. It is great that we have this tool jn Squad, but we don't need to hear "5 degrees left, 50m up" etc corrections constantly on the command net, when there is a perfectly sound alternative of talking directly....

 

Most of this problem could be stemmed off by engraining some simple radio discipline into the Squad Leaders playing the game, but this is no easy task. SL's come in all shapes, and there is no central way to change a behaviour that has now embedded itself into the gaming culture surrounding Squad. A tutorial would be of great help for sure, especially with maybe some quick examples of concise radio chatter on the command net, and an explaination as to why using the command channel to talk excessively is a bad thing.

 

 

Another possible solution, but this is going into "simulation" realm... Is simply have a configurable radio, so that numpad 1-9 are the different radio channels. So it's up to the players whether they want to join a radio channel. You could have all SL default to numpad 1 channel. And simply have a HUD element, or if you wanted to get more "immersive" you could have a radio "weapon" that you can equip, to change to the various channels, in case you want to be on a separate channel.

 

So example, the mortar team could announce in the briefing that they will be on channel numpad2, so whenever an SL needs mortars or wanted to walk mortars onto a target, they can switch to numpad2 and not clog up the command net numpad1 with chatter.

 

 

Just thinking of all the different possible solutions to this thing that comes up often as SL on public servers... We want to encouage SL to work together, but too much talking distracts rather than helps teamwork IMO

Edited by fuzzhead

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7 hours ago, fuzzhead said:

Most of this problem could be stemmed off by engraining some simple radio discipline into the Squad Leaders playing the game, but this is no easy task

+1

7 hours ago, fuzzhead said:

A tutorial would be of great help for sure, especially with maybe some quick examples of concise radio chatter on the command net, and an explaination as to why using the command channel to talk excessively is a bad thing.

+1 among other things yeah! 

 

Squad has conventional (U.S. & RU) and unconventional forces (Insurgents & Militia) all four factions in real life must go through some sort of basic training before being handed a gun and shipped off to battle. Squad's inability to implement such basic tutorial mechanic is something I have been advocating for months now on the forums with no real answer from the devs. Until such time comes where players either have an optional or required training involving best practices we will have to cross our fingers SL's don't do stupid shit.

 

I also find it quite embarrassing that there seems to be this unwritten rule revolving around Squad Leaders having to explain game mechanics to new players in the middle of a public match because of "good gaming spirit"....And then people complain about the lack of experienced SL's ¬¬

 

Can't have your cake and eat it...

 

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I think we're viewing this from the incorrect perspective. It's like we're all trying to bend ourselves towards the noob SLs, instead of the other way around. I liked the idea of having real channels and we could use this in the benefit of us - the real hardcore and teamwork players. We would have a channel for us and those douches who like to chitchat nonsense in the general SL comms would have a channel of their own. Then you guys might say: yeah, but that would break the game's communication and we need to be able to listen to them. So, yeah, that's why it's all wrong. It's the other way arround. They need to listen to us! And if whatever bs their talking is important, they can damn well switch channels and say only what's important.

 

Someone here said that he feels it's important to be able to listen to the SLs planning. Well, I beg to differ. What I need to hear is what their are gonna do. I need effective and concise orders. I don't need all that arguing, stuttering, figuring out what to do in a huge brainstorm, thinking out loud, asking opinions, talking about their weekends, cursing other SLs for the shortcomings of their subordinates, etc.

Tutorials about comms discipline won't change anything if the community doesn't bash the waywards. We would have to shape the our culture and that's hard to do with all the noobs out there and even with the devs telling us to be friendly.

I don't see any other way besides either adding a mute button or making a new channel system that players can tune it to. Also, muting general SL comms wouldn't mute SL to SL comms. If there's something important that needs to be told directly to a SL, it still can happen even though you have the general SL comms muted.

 

Another thing that could be added, for those who don't mute the general SL comms, is to automatically turn its volume way down when a SL directly contact another SL.

 

Also, we do need de Squad Comms mude option 'cause something we enter the only available squad and everybody is chitchating and you can't hear anything. And, no, that won't make a difference 'cause it's a 'fun squad'. They don't care about tactics and proper communication. I would operate way better with them muted while I follow them and have my attention to the battle and sounds, being able to think instead of going crazy.

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17 minutes ago, Ceceli said:

Someone here said that he feels it's important to be able to listen to the SLs planning. Well, I beg to differ. What I need to hear is what their are gonna do. I need effective and concise orders.

Let's agree to disagree. You know how many times I had to cut someone off (politely) on SL chat because they were planning a rush from the wrong faction side thinking they're Militia when in fact we were Russian? Or how many times none of the other squads went to grab the back caps? My point is that all SL's should be using the same channel at all times with no range limitations and definitely no alternate channel like the numpad. If you keep the mechanics AND the comms short and sweet & effective & concise then we will all have such an easier time....

 

 

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20 minutes ago, CptDirty said:

Let's agree to disagree. You know how many times I had to cut someone off (politely) on SL chat because they were planning a rush from the wrong faction side thinking they're Militia when in fact we were Russian? Or how many times none of the other squads went to grab the back caps? My point is that all SL's should be using the same channel at all times with no range limitations and definitely no alternate channel like the numpad. If you keep the mechanics AND the comms short and sweet & effective & concise then we will all have such an easier time....

 

 

But all you have is wishful thinking. I'm giving altenatives even if they are compromises. Because in the end, if you get what you want - to not tweak the game mechanics -, you'll end up with me and a whole lot of other guys just muting the SL comms in the Options for the rest of the match. That's up to 2 hours without communication instead of just a few minutes or changing channels. People will adapt wheter you like it or not. I sure af will not have my ears bombarded with noise pollution for 2 hours straight and directly impacting in my ability to communicate with my squad and how effectively I play the game. It is that simple.

EDIT: Also, I've seen your behaviour in another post, as well in this. You've said and I quote "*will sound like a broken record but...*". Your opinion has been stated many times here. Having the last word won't decide the future of the development, so chill. We heard you. Be assured of that.

Edited by Ceceli

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15 hours ago, Ceceli said:

But all you have is wishful thinking. I'm giving altenatives even if they are compromises. Because in the end, if you get what you want - to not tweak the game mechanics -, you'll end up with me and a whole lot of other guys just muting the SL comms in the Options for the rest of the match. That's up to 2 hours without communication instead of just a few minutes or changing channels. People will adapt wheter you like it or not.

Sorry bud I just don't see any validity to what you're saying. As I stated above:

Quote

With an added ability to muffle command chat with a hotkey that toggles the volume bar of the command chat between two predetermined volume levels -> 5% low and 25% high on a 100% scale. This way I can toggle quickly between a normal volume level I normally use (25%) and a low (5%) when in/out of battle.

If devs get this option in with the lowest volume bar setting of 5% for example then even at it's most muffled setting there's still 5% of scaled volume coming out = not mute.

 

At the end of the day you gotta keep it simple. The direct comms channel by far was more harmful to my ears then 2-3 SL's talking at the same time on command channel. At least when these 2-3 SL's are talking over one another they realize it quickly and let the other person finish.

 

RADIO ETIQUETTE.

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Posted (edited)

SL coms are trash in current pubs.

About 90% typically of talk there is useless/unrelated to the game or my squad situation. Even worse, I can not hear my squad over SL coms which leads to my death / squad being crippled by absent SL. Squad coms should NOT have less priority than SL coms. They are much more tactical i.e. related to what is important right now. You can deal with strategic decisions later.

I don't expect SLs quality to go up significantly/fast so there should be a technical solution for the problem. 

1) Give SLs options/controls over lowering squad coms when command coms, don't force him into not hearing squad.

2) Give SLs ability to lower sound/mute other dedicated SLs.

 

Otherwise it's indeed easier to use external coms for my squad communication.

 

Can anyone link me suggestion/feedback thread for this?

Edited by paragonid

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From where im sitting we have the best system for coms right now, its not perfect but it works. 

 

To make changes to it will end up making issues you will hate even more than whats experienced now.

 

Im not sure how bad it is on Russian or American servers, but the EU's pub servers i play on this isnt an issue at all. But there will always be those people that just wanna hear them selfs talk.

 

 

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The built in communication systems in Squad are perfect. I wouldn't change a single thing with them. I think most people that have difficulties with the system have all the VoIP chat volume levels way too high. Also, because unlike most other games there isn't a built-in vote kick system to deal with assholes in a democratic fashion so you'll need to play on servers that have active admin that will deal with this hindering if it really bugs you that much.

Edited by Zylfrax791

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In my expirience, as soon as the fighting starts, the squad channel is full with "enemys on my position", "enemy at 234", "contact  in North" and "SL please mark xy on my position".

 

It's kind of a double edged sword.  You want and have to communicate with other squadmember, but sometimes it's too much and almost every sentence that contains "on my position" is stupid anyway.

 

So maybe every Squadmember should be able to mark exactly one enemy positions on the Map? Just one marker per Squadmemeber and all the other markers for the SL as it is. This could help with too much voice chat AND could make the SL role a little bit more attractive, since you don't have to mark everything for everyone.

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 The whole thing of this game is comm's.   The second you have SL mute you will lose team cohesion . Easy to see what the effect is like have non native speaking squad that does nothing but for themselves. Communication between Squads elevate game play,  knowing what squads are doing give a feel of the battlefield .

 

In addition take you don't want commander, for having squads that mute team squad mean no point in having him.

 

Keep comms open.

 

Other option maybe only have Red command channel open for first 10mins then only keypad if you really want single squad comm's. 

Edited by Smee

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i think it is good enough.

 

Personally I feel with games like Squad, playerbase gotta meet the dev half way as in people who run reputable servers should discipline loud mouths so a culture of good radio etiquette is created from ground up.

 

 

p.s. you know how annoying when your squaddie kept yelling "enemy on ME" like you are supposed to remember all the voices? Same thing when contacting other SLs on direct comm (although to a lesser degree). Make sure the other SL knows he is been talked to by another SL so announce yourself. 

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Yeah, the noise pollution is ****ing ridiculous. You would expect Squad to have the management of radios to be one of the first basic features implemented. -_-

 

Here's my idea of implementing a solution:

 

 

On 1/17/2018 at 9:27 AM, CptDirty said:

Also I DESPISE the whisper direct comms channel between SL's (numpad). I think this should be removed ASAP. 

This ^

Edited by Pastah

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