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bravo2zero

Ability to hold spawns at your rally point

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Not really a killer feature, but I can't count how many times we've lost our ground and had to start from main because someone just took the last 1-2 spawns on RP. Keeps happening all the time, either due to inexperienced players or by mistake. It fades a bit when you are playing with your squad/clan mates (still happens time to time though) and is a bigger issue when having random players on pub. Would be great if SL could just temporarily "disable" RP denying spawns for anyone but himself. The "on hold" RP status could automatically go away as soon as SL spawns to let others spawn in and refresh this RP.

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all down to squad discipline and situational awareness, kick the *** who has just joined the squad and spawns in without talking to SL or asking what kits are needed and where to spawn. In most squads I have been in I find that its pretty standard for squad members to advise SL when 2 spawns left and SL to respond if he needs the last one saving, SL could be the fuc*in' hero who never dies :) If you do 'accidently' take the 2nd last stay around the spawn SL can't do sh*t without a 2nd.

I would like to see a mechanic which allows randoms to join a squad but SL has to acknowledge that they have joined so SL can give a very brief update on where, what and when before letting them spawn.

Just thinking about your idea of 'disabling' the spawn, it would be good way to ensure when needed that 'all' the squad respawns at the same time so they can get back into the fight as a 'unit' rather than in the easy to pick off drips and drabs which happens in most rounds.

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Holding spawn is a basic that everyone should know or be taught.  SL's have enough to do already.

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1 hour ago, Smee said:

Holding spawn is a basic that everyone should know or be taught.  SL's have enough to do already.

Yep

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While I agree that its a necessary tactic to not allow the Rallypoint from disappearing, which will disadvantage the squad and team if the squad leader dies and is not able to set the new RP.

 

I do find this method of Spawn control "gamey", but the insistence and beratement of moe experienced squad members to the new players who spawn on the RP without being aware that there is limited spawns and aware of how it puts them at a disadvantage, this is a problem with game design as it is really unclear that this is so crucial.

 

Personally would like to see the way Rallypoints work changed, but if they are kept as is I think a simple fix for this would be to lock out the RP spawnpoint automatically when it gets down to the last spawn, so only the squad leader can spawn on it at that point.

 

This stops the unnecessary aggression towards new players.

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Posted (edited)

I think it should turn the colour of the last person to use the spawn bright pink, so I know who it was and can kick his ass out the squad...

 

although I do think spawns as discussed many times are star trek super transporters that should be redesigned.

Edited by embecmom

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2 hours ago, embecmom said:

although I do think spawns as discussed many times are star trek super transporters that should be redesigned.


Even just not letting the SL spawn on a Rally would completely alter the whole dynamic of Die - Rally close? - Give Up - Rinse and repeat, in pub games, while also getting rid of this annoying little thing, that really shouldn't be, because you as a SL should always make sure there is enough rallies. But the current "meta" of spawning creates this exact issue.
It really is a double bind. The game gives you the advantage of being able to spawn close if you happen to die, making dying not much of a big deal, but on the other hand, if you die just one time too many then you're completely screwed over in relation to an enemy squad who hasn't.
If it was about staying alive from the outset then you wouldn't need to OCD-watch every spawn that happens, to ensure you're not playing at a disadvantage.

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Squad 101. Communicate
Always, ALWAYS, be aware of how many spawns on the rally are left. Let all know, since rally is at 3 remain.

When u just join squad, BE AWARE of what the heck is going on. Listen to the comm. 
When it's loud and they are saying "I am down." and stuff. You know your squad is in the middle of fight. 
When no one is talking, state like 2nd medic, 2nd LAT Joining. Spawning on Rally, or HAB ? Then wait for the answer. 

When you decide to spawn on rally, again, be aware of how many spawns are left. 

While such feature suggested on OP might take a huge weight off of SL's shoulder but this can be prevented so. Much. Easier than you think

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It might be a solution that the last rp spawn is reserved for SL only by default. He should be able to allow a spawn on request but as soon as he sets a new RP it defaults to a reserved last spawn again. Might stop all the discussion to hold last spawn for the SL that ends in frustration when some unknowing plonker takes it.

 

I know we should all know/learn how to play but you can have a squad of nine and it just takes one to ruin it and really set your squad back and potentially your whole team.

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Or just make spawns unlimited and make the rally despawn after few mins with a cool down to set up a new one or if enemy get too close.

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I think the annoyance that it would be to the SL to release that last spawn every freaking time would be far, far greater than the annoyance when someone takes the last spawn. Tbh, I just don't see the last spawn being taken in a critical situation all that often, usually, when you're on the ropes and you need that last one for the SL, there are several people in coms letting everyone know. In that situation, if someone still takes it, it's a noobish move along the lines of blindly launching a GL into a building and getting several tks. It happens, but we don't need the game to keep us from doing it. It's knowledge that just gets passed along. It's a people problem, not a game problem. Not that the rally systems couldn't do with some refinement.....

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On 1/10/2018 at 6:17 AM, fuzzhead said:

I think a simple fix for this would be to lock out the RP spawn point automatically when it gets down to the last spawn, so only the squad leader can spawn on it at that point.

and what happens when someone else needs to spawn and the SL does not need to?  - sub-optimal logic.

On 1/10/2018 at 6:17 AM, fuzzhead said:

I do find this method of Spawn control "gamey"

Rallies, in particular, are "gamey" by default - they are a "gamey" mechanic. to paraphrase Embecmom, "Are star trek super transporters" ... and i agree with this reason, among others. they are only marginally better than the god-awful wave-spawning on the SL from BF's. rallies also reduce the cost of dying to the player.

 

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I've made a thread about this that there should be ability to lock the rally point.

 

And no matter what people tell you that the SL should constantly be telling their squad to not use the last spawns. They are wrong and it should not be pain in the a** to do that everytime and a lot of the times people do it anyway and use the last spawn and this feature would be super useful.

 

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I've seen SL's getting together to kill a friendly FOB because their subordinates kept respawning in the FOB and they didn't want it happening. Instead of just ordering their subordinates not to, they killed a key FOB for the next flag. So, yeah, I don't see how this argument of "just tell them not to respawn at the rally point" really would work. If players on their own kill a FOB because they don't have control over their subordinates, I think this feature suggested by the OP about the rally point is totally valid.

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No, I don't think it's necessary. I agree with @Smee that SL's have a lot on their plate during a match and the less micromanaging the better the results. 

 

*will sound like a broken record but...* If only there was an optional dynamic tutorial system to teach newbies these sort of basics before heading out to MP ¬¬

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whilst an optional tute system might be nice, unfortunately it will not stops tards being tards - this is also a broken record.

i agree with Smee as well, however i believe more strongly that peeps should have more respect for others (not just SL's) they are playing with and show the manners they should all have been taught by their parents.

if a player has been asked to hold spawn and actually ignores that request, particularly if more than once, then they should be kicked from the squad - if they cause more trouble due to being kicked, then punt them from the server with a week long ban - there is no room for rudeness or lack of basic manners towards others and it should not be tolerated for any reason.

if peeps had more respect for the rest of the players they are on-line with then this sort of problem would not exist. there are so many issues/problems that crop up in these forums about player attitudes that could simply be fixed by not being an arroagnt nobhead. why should we have to make a game ever-more complex just to combat this? - why should we have to compromise to suit peeps that don't give a crap about, or respect, other players?

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The solution to people using up the last spawn is to change the mechanic all together. Right now it basically acts as an infinite spawn point until it's discovered, squad leaders can just refresh it every time they wipe. 

 

Should be more like in PR, lasting 60 seconds, perhaps requiring more people (half a squad?), giving you the ability to rally the few stragglers, not as an infinite spawn point, but it almost certainly needs to expire before the squad leader can spawn on it again.

Edited by Kerri

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As someone that has been SL and has had someone take the last spawn despite repeated warnings not to, I say, PLEASE don't change a thing.  I am so tired of the nanny state we are creating.  THANK YOU for allowing SL's to deal with this on an as-needed basis.  The last time I played and someone did this, I could have been a jerk and just booted the guy.  Instead, I let the entire rest of the squad give him a tongue lashing and then I told him "for your mistake, you now have to go kill 10 enemy troops before you die next."  Who knows if he did it, I'm not sure, but I just left it at that because he already got an ear full and didn't do it again the rest of the game.  Either way, I dealt with it, found a squady and dropped another rally point and we moved on.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the SL's complaining about this are the SL's leading from the front all the time.  You know the ones, they are first to run across a street, first into a fight with flying bullets, first to die.  They are the ones constantly barking orders and making the game not very fun because they are "so pro" and have "hundreds of hours in the game."  The SL's that hang back and use their bino's, use strategy, gently direct their team to victory, those SL's I doubt are having much trouble with this issue because they are typically also refreshing the rally on the regular basis because they know, no rally = no play-ee.

 

On another note.  Why in the world do so many decisions any more have to be an all or nothing?  I agree that rally points feel a bit like a star trek transport that is totally un-realistic.  Why can't this just be a server side setting that can be enabled or disabled and then if you like rally points, join servers that use them, and if you don't, join the hard core servers?  Why can't we have like BF4 has where you can have servers that are configured different ways and you can search/filter for them?  Want hard core, one life, great, a server is setup for that.  Want one that has no limitations except no rally points, great, join a server that is setup like that.  I am a big fan of options, let the players weed out what the good/bad options are by playing and eventually you will start to see what the community as a whole prefers.

 

Here's another all-or-nothing decision I laugh at.  At one time medics had binos.  Then they took them away.  Then people wanted them back and others said "NO! the medics were too powerful with binos!  They should just be medics!"  Umm... how about a compromise?  Medics with bino's but the bino's aren't as powerful of magnification?  I mean seriously, give those guys a bit more ways to help out but it doesn't have to be 20x binos, even 5x would  be a fun little thing to provide them.

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Or maybe just apply Proyect reality RP system?Where u have 60 secs to respawn  or it dissapears, much more simple .

 

this what we should have had always in my opinion. (For anybody reading this , check my post about RPs in proyect reality, January 15 post.

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5 minutes ago, maze2 said:

Or maybe just apply Proyect reality RP system?Where u have 60 secs to respawn  or it dissapears, much more simple .

 

this what we should have had always in my opinion. (For anybody reading this , check my post about RPs in proyect reality, January 15 post.

Wouldn't that just force SL's + 1 member to stay behind make sure RP is (almost) always up? 

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3 hours ago, CptDirty said:

Wouldn't that just force SL's + 1 member to stay behind make sure RP is (almost) always up? 

Absolutely no, nobody would play like that, plus it would be boring.

It would force more FOBs instead, cuz they are permanent spawns.therefore more logistics therefore more roleplay.

 

 

the purpose of that RP system is to limit how RPs work cuz usually people just run one by one and get killed and SL puts another RP , cycle repeats(usually)

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4 hours ago, CptDirty said:

Wouldn't that just force SL's + 1 member to stay behind make sure RP is (almost) always up? 

 

I'd increase the required number of squad members to at least half the squad, so that it functions as an actual rally point for rallying stragglers and not just a way to cheese the game (taking a single motorbike with SQL + Rifleman, parking behind a building and 3 seconds later there's a 9 man squad popping out). Would result in transport squads actually occuring (haven't seen a single one in Squad, in PR they were a staple of every game), transport trucks being valuable assets (right now they're used for the initial rush to the enemy's first cap point and then dumped for the rest of the game as it's impossible for a squad to lose their rally point unless they **** up massively). Balance the need for more people with a larger radius in which squad members need to be, but also the space in which an enemy can prevent it being placed.

 

But even that change probably isn't needed, if rallies expire and the rally timer is long enough, I don't think people would be willing to sit about waiting to replace a rally point. They'd either rely on transport vehicles or FOBs more often.

 

There's lots of issues with the game right now that hopefully get resolved in the near future, rally point and FOBs being a massive one right now. Such as a squad leader can place a radio, spend the initial crafting points on a ammo crate, rearm his squad, dig the radio up, and repeat. Infinite ammo with no requirement for logistics resupplies. 

Edited by Kerri

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12 minutes ago, Kerri said:

 

I'd increase the required number of squad members to at least half the squad, so that it functions as an actual rally point for rallying stragglers and not just a way to cheese the game (taking a single motorbike with SQL + Rifleman, parking behind a building and 3 seconds later there's a 9 man squad popping out). Would result in transport squads actually occuring (haven't seen a single one in Squad, in PR they were a staple of every game), transport trucks being valuable assets (right now they're used for the initial rush to the enemy's first cap point and then dumped for the rest of the game as it's impossible for a squad to lose their rally point unless they **** up massively). Balance the need for more people with a larger radius in which squad members need to be, but also the space in which an enemy can prevent it being placed.

 

Or we can keep playing whataboutism, my favourite game. There's lots of issues with the game right now that hopefully get resolved in the near future, rally point and FOBs being a massive one right now. Such as a squad leader can place a radio, spend the initial crafting points on a ammo crate, rearm his squad, dig the radio up, and repeat. Infinite ammo with no requirement for logistics resupplies. 

Totally right

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