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So one thing I've noticed over the past year as a squad leader or just generally looking at the entire team's position on the map is the amount of people going rogue/rambo instead of working and following with their squad. It's definitely not a systemic game-breaking problem by any means but it does get annoying, especially as a squad leader, and typically interferes with the tactical aspect of the game in my opinion. There are exceptions of course, such as scouts placing mines or having a LP/OP forward of the defense, but these are usually a minority of players lone gunning it. Now, I know these players could be dealt with easily by being kicked from the squad but all that does is make them someone else's problem or just unassigned and doing the same thing.

 

This is definitely a problem (small one) that may not have a solution outside of squading up with other like minded players who enjoy the "authentic" teamwork experience. My idea as a possible incentive to fighting as a team would be to add a slight stamina boost that's only possible by staying within a certain proximity of your squad leader/squad. My idea of what this would look like would be along the lines of decreasing the speed at which stamina is used up while sprinting or maybe regenerating stamina faster within that certain proximity of your squaddies. If you're too far away from your buddies you would lose this "boost" which would put Rambo's at a slight disadvantage. 

 

Of course, the whole idea may sound stupid but as a former infantry Marine (2006-2010), being around fellow Marines during any type of physical exertion made you want to run faster and push harder than you otherwise would to avoid being that weakest link shitbag that no one likes. I also have no idea if this is even possible to implement but I thought it was worth throwing out there in case it hasn't been mentioned before to see what everyone else thinks. Maybe there are better/easier ideas that can be worked in. Or maybe we just continue kicking these players from our squads. Either way, not going to stop playing this game and looking forward to the future of Squad :D

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One would argue that it doesn't reflect realism. I would argue that staying with your squad boosts you moral and proven to help exceed physical limitations when with your buddies. Think of this as an adrenaline rush in the middle of a fire fight, you would find the strength within if close to your buddies.

 

So in other words, why not :) 

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Also if we had a proper sway-suppression mechanic, where your aiming is slightly jumping while bullets are flying by which I would really love to have (like it's in Darkest Hour 44-45 mod). Then by being in a vicinity of the SL, not only you'd have the stamina boost morale, but also the sway-suppression would be slightly less when you're with the SL.

 

 

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whilst this sounds like a solid idea, i just wonder if it will cause issues with squads being to closely bunched simply because everyone in the squad wants the buff all the time.

i also see how some might come to call it unfair if they're not quite close enough to thier SL, in a firefight, but the other enemy is and therefore garners a greater advantage.

the 'proximity' is the real sticking point - i think it should be no more than say 5 meters, so that there is some form of offset for the buff, due to being a more compact target - there has to be Tit-for-Tat (not just Tit all the time, otherwise you end up drowning in boob ;P ).

as Cpt Dirty noted, it doesn't reflect realism ... but then many things don't, so ...

Edited by LaughingJack

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There are many occasions I have been cut off from my squad and not lone wolfing. Only survivor after an encounter, SL request for someone to help him set a rally, making a logi trip (heading back for the truck) etc, etc. Putting someone at a slight disadvantage of having slower stamina regeneration goes against those situations unfairly. I don't particularly like lone wolfs in a squad (SL has the right to kick) but not sure hindering those who need to run solo for a little bit should be penalized just to annoy those who do it without SL permission. 

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I think it's a very novel idea and it's an interesting solution to the issue.. but my first take-away from it was that if someone has fallen behind the squad a little (healing up someone who fell off a roof and the squad pushed out without them), then having the stamina-morale system would make it virtually impossible for them to catch up unless the whole squad stops to wait for them (depending on how severe the penalty is) which ends up inconveniencing me, the squad leader, far more than giving people a verbal warning then taking 3 seconds to kick non-compliant members. 

 

I wouldn't mind the "tiny bit less sway" or "less suppression" when around several squad members (within some reasonable distance, ~10-15m radius or something), as I think it gives advantages without breaking the game (better shooters could still make do even without the buffs) and without inconveniencing the squad as a whole. 

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For me the radius in which you'd get these advantages would be sufficiently large, at least like 60-70m really. But I like this idea, only I just would like if also there was some sort of a stealth element when being within the squad radius. Because the stamina and less suppression would sort of resemble morale, and we also need the stealth element.

So for the stealth element, I wish in Squad you coud press a button in which the player goes into a "HIDE" mode.

In this hide mode, the player would be covered with some extra sheet of camouflaged net of woven leaves on top of the player, and it would take at least a few seconds for the player to become covered in such a hidden net of leaves. And that advantage would only become available when you're with the squad so that the whole squad can conceal themselves when either some enemy vehicle approaches or even as an ambush against enemy infantry.

Edited by Friesen

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And actually less suppression when you're with your squad also stands for firepower as well, not just for morale.

 

In my opinion there should be a simulation of 4 main attributes when being with your squad. These attributes are often found in strategy games. But I strongly believe, that with the modern technology of gaming, these attributes are worthy of being in some way simulated in an fps game such as SQUAD and still being portrayed in a realistic way (so that there's no exaggerated boosts such as more health and things like that).

 

And these 4 main attributes are ->

 

- Morale (which in some way the stamina boost represents it)

- Firepower (less suppression)

- Stealth (able to conceal yourself with ie some sheet of leaves under grass)

- Communication - this imo should be represented in a way so that any lone wolf is not able to see any of the enemy markers on the map. This in some way simulates the fact that when you're not with your squad in real life, the general communication and intel are vastly reduced.

Edited by Friesen

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i like it when I find a micromanaged squad which is nicely grouped together.

Typically I can take out 2-3 with a nade and then take my time putting down the rest of them.

The most effective squad is one that does not require a sheepdog.

 

I dont like that I could be penalised because the rest of my squad has died, respawned and is somewhere else. This is very common for me. 

 

Having said that I like the thinking of giving benefits which have a gameplay effect and are not points related. These application of these benefits should not penalise intelligent play. ie having people wide on the flank who can detect enemies or rescue a squad from ambush.

 

Range would need to be at least 200m and should not be linked to SL, it should be related to squad mates nearby.

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There's a difference between micro managed all standing on top of each other, and a squad that has 5-10 metre spacings advancing across open ground in an extended line.

 

I personally like the idea of the Squad Leader being able to "mark" a player manually that THEY feel is lone wolfing it. That player would then suffer some sort of disadvantage and would force them to justify or communicate with the Squad Leader what they are doing. Basically the SL gets to manually apply the penalty. If shitbags were aware of this feature when they start playing that would stop the dude being someone else's problem and encourage them to try harder within the squad.

 

The only question is, what exactly would the penalty be. Personally I like any ONE of the following:

 

-Inability to fire the weapon

-Inability to sprint.

-Inability to go prone/crouch

-Vote kick system where enough flags gets them kicked from the game.

 

 

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I agree with the OPs suggestion. I've been saying this a long time. My suggestion was to make the performance boost/penalty persistent, so that it would carry over to the next game. But I think any kind of incentive would be an improvement.

 

Bonus stamina (can run longer), morale (suppression is lower) and accuracy (less weapon shake) should be awarded to players who stick with the squad, while penalties should be given to the Rambos, making them fat, scared and unable to shoot straight.

An extra suggestion is to reward menial tasks like shoveling and being a medic also.

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On 12/6/2017 at 6:24 AM, wASSabi said:

So one thing I've noticed over the past year as a squad leader or just generally looking at the entire team's position on the map is the amount of people going rogue/rambo instead of working and following with their squad. It's definitely not a systemic game-breaking problem by any means but it does get annoying, especially as a squad leader, and typically interferes with the tactical aspect of the game in my opinion. There are exceptions of course, such as scouts placing mines or having a LP/OP forward of the defense, but these are usually a minority of players lone gunning it. Now, I know these players could be dealt with easily by being kicked from the squad but all that does is make them someone else's problem or just unassigned and doing the same thing.

 

This is definitely a problem (small one) that may not have a solution outside of squading up with other like minded players who enjoy the "authentic" teamwork experience. My idea as a possible incentive to fighting as a team would be to add a slight stamina boost that's only possible by staying within a certain proximity of your squad leader/squad. My idea of what this would look like would be along the lines of decreasing the speed at which stamina is used up while sprinting or maybe regenerating stamina faster within that certain proximity of your squaddies. If you're too far away from your buddies you would lose this "boost" which would put Rambo's at a slight disadvantage. 

 

Of course, the whole idea may sound stupid but as a former infantry Marine (2006-2010), being around fellow Marines during any type of physical exertion made you want to run faster and push harder than you otherwise would to avoid being that weakest link shitbag that no one likes. I also have no idea if this is even possible to implement but I thought it was worth throwing out there in case it hasn't been mentioned before to see what everyone else thinks. Maybe there are better/easier ideas that can be worked in. Or maybe we just continue kicking these players from our squads. Either way, not going to stop playing this game and looking forward to the future of Squad :D

 

+1  I don't think penalizing someone for going at it alone is the answer, but a slight increase in stats for participation is certainly welcome. 

Edited by Selfless

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Close proximity to teammates =/= teamwork.

 

Teamwork means doing stuff not because I personally want to, but because it's what my team needs from me. While I agree that the psychological aspect  might be realistic (I don't want to look like a wuss around my squadmates so I push myself harder), it's not an incentive for actual teamwork. It's just an incentive to stick close to my teammates, which can often do more harm than good for them.

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10 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

Close proximity to teammates =/= teamwork.

 

Teamwork means doing stuff not because I personally want to, but because it's what my team needs from me. While I agree that the psychological aspect  might be realistic (I don't want to look like a wuss around my squadmates so I push myself harder), it's not an incentive for actual teamwork. It's just an incentive to stick close to my teammates, which can often do more harm than good for them.

Agreed

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I agree that you push yourself with moving when you are with you buddies fighting, but if your whole squad has been wiped and you're the lone survivor, you have plenty of motivation to push yourself to the limit as well.

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2 hours ago, Cavazos said:

I agree that you push yourself with moving when you are with you buddies fighting, but if your whole squad has been wiped and you're the lone survivor, you have plenty of motivation to push yourself to the limit as well.

That is another area where the devs can tweak.  If all the squad members are dead and the sole survivor was true to his squad, helped out, shoveled, bandaged, etc, he should be given a small survivor bonus at least until someone is picked up or spawns.  If the sole survivor was a lone wolf and did not actively contribute to his squad, then no bonus. 

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What the hell are these bonuses? Are we playing world of Warcraft? I like the idea of moral bonuses maybe but I think we should keep in the realms of realism. If you're a lone wolf you might also be SCARED SHITTLESS in real life so should we add a bunch of optic gun sway and jitter too? 

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The theme of this thread was to encourage teamwork.  You can encourage teamwork passively by offering very, very small, rewards.  I'm not talking about penalizing the lone wolf; although adding sway, and jitter would make it more interesting.  There could be small incentives for the lone wolf too, especially if they've contributed in some positive way.  I'm not certain what criteria the devs would use to determine the reward. 

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On 12/7/2017 at 2:30 AM, Friesen said:

So for the stealth element, I wish in Squad you coud press a button in which the player goes into a "HIDE" mode.

In this hide mode, the player would be covered with some extra sheet of camouflaged net of woven leaves on top of the player, and it would take at least a few seconds for the player to become covered in such a hidden net of leaves. And that advantage would only become available when you're with the squad so that the whole squad can conceal themselves when either some enemy vehicle approaches or even as an ambush against enemy infantry.

 

Of course it depends on the map and the terrain... but the human eye picks up movement. So if you hear a vehicle, the vast majority of the time, if you lay down and stop moving (assuming you're not all over the side of a hill), you'll probably be fine unless he runs right over you. Even as US on Fools Road 3 (where they generally stick out), if a vic is moving and you're all laying down, odds are he will go right past you. It's a little harder when it's infantry and they're walking/running, but again, human eye's pick out movement, so as long as you're all prone and not moving, frequently you can go unnoticed unless they're right on top of you.

 

But what usually happens, is some dumb shit just has to peek to see where they are, and then they see him (or he claims they would have, and shoots one - or worse misses), and then you get into a big firefight and all die and it wrecks the plan.

 

Edit.

Just to add to this. Was playing as militia on Op First Light today as the scout, and had at least 6 US soldiers walk/run right past me - must have been within 5 feet of me (two I thought would walk on me). Many more (10-15) went within 15-40 feet of me. I was near their main (that little blue house by the road) just laying absolutely still in the short grass. A buddy who was in admin cam was killing himself laughing. I wanted to mine the road, however I'd just taken out their HAB and they were all running from main. Eventually I was able to move, but was spotted before being able to plant the mine.

 

My point to this, is that this is what happens when you lay completely still. Most players won't be this oblivious, but it does happen more than most people think - especially if you're in an area where they are not expecting you to be. Basically this is my very long winded way of saying we do not need any special gear to hide ourselves. And while I'm pretty certain that that same scenario wouldn't be possible as a US soldier, similar things have played out enough that it should be pretty obvious that something like this isn't needed.

Edited by Ti0mat

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4 hours ago, Cavazos said:

I agree that you push yourself with moving when you are with you buddies fighting, but if your whole squad has been wiped and you're the lone survivor, you have plenty of motivation to push yourself to the limit as well.

That's happens to me more times than I like to mention. I prefer to take cover than run around to my death like I see so many times. It's not really a case of pushing myself because I am with team mates but playing smart.

 

"Hang on let me cover you there's enemy........oh you shouldn't of rushed that corner. Medic, xxx needs another res".

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not a supporter of this idea.. I just think they should remove the kit they have if they are kicked, automatically not when they respawn and automatically remove them from vehicle positions like gunner or driver .     Stop the bullshit grabbing a sniper or scout etc kit and doing what you like. .. if you just have a rifle man kit then you really are vulnerable or having to get and sl to try and kick them out  ...as one mentioned already.. what if you are last man standing suddenly you are punished because everyone else died. 

 

Give them no nades and 1 round with iron sighted rifle... they will soon get the idea of teamwork.

 

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Lets at least make an attempt to stay on topic. Thanks.

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