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MuffriDer

In-game kill score feedback

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IMHO:

 

I'd like to say that having experienced a game where kills don't come with announcements and instant feedback, not even for teamkills, is epic.

 

It will take some getting used to. Sometimes I don't know if I just killed a friendly or if the enemy is dead, and I don't care. It's weird after all the arcade-y games out there, but it's how it should be.

 

Admins will have to be on the ball for TKs, as players won't be able to give them accurate information unless they actually see the player's tags.

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Agreed. I absolutely LOVE that we can't see our kills. It should stay this way imo. I think it will keep people from lonewolfing and trying to get as many kills as possible. 

 

I hope they do keep track of OBJ points though.

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I've got a fairly comprehensive score and game-event notification system coming in next week.  

 

The fact that you aren't told if you kill someone is intentional.  However, I'm setting it up so that you are told if and when you teamkill someone.  Additionally, Admins get a message when teamkills happen (much like the kill feed in other games), so they can be aware of what is going on.  

 

The code supports the traditional fps method of informing you and (and your team or everyone else on the server) whenever you get a kill, but it's just turned off by default.  I included it so that future mods can enable it if they have a good reason for wanting it.  

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I wouldn't even message for teamkills. What is hidden from the pubbies, stays hidden. Less drama.

 

Admins should be informed, though.

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So if you are repeatedly team killed you wouldn't want to know who is doing it, so you could bring it to an admins attention without them having to check logs. Team kills need to be shown.

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So if you are repeatedly team killed you wouldn't want to know who is doing it, so you could bring it to an admins attention without them having to check logs. Team kills need to be shown.

 

He's saying hide it from everyone except for the Admins.

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He's saying hide it from everyone except for the Admins.

What if it's a clan server and the person teamkilling is a team mate of the admin? It opens up a lot of potential abuse. If it's public people can log reports to the devs.

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No kill confirmation is a must for Squad :) The only thing I want is some message for teamkills, so you know when you hit the wrong guy and pay more attention to your shooting.

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What if it's a clan server and the person teamkilling is a team mate of the admin? It opens up a lot of potential abuse. If it's public people can log reports to the devs.

Really? You want to go there?

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I wouldn't give any message to player even from teamkills. It gives certain aspect to the game that you have to communicate with with others to confirm targets or if the guy you just killed was really an enemy. I don't like the idea that I can indentify if someones enemy or not just by shooting him.

 

Admins should of course see everything so they can react to intentional teamkilling.

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I like the lack of notifications for both enemy and team kills.

 

However, if team kills notices are to be added, it may be useful to look into adding a delay for the notice, similar to how RO2 handles its notifications.  

 

*Shot* *Kill* *5-10 secs later the notice pops up*  

 

This way there's still a certain level of tension and uncertainty while in the moment that keeps the player on his toes, but still lets him know that, "Hey, just FYI, those three guys you just mowed down without pos target ID?  Yeah, those were your guys..."

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If people are concerned about trolls and griefers, standard FPS admin script world-over is five TKs = insta-kick/temp ban.

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So when you join a server with 90% lone wolfs and zergling spawn rushing around

You say that is because of the scoreboard? that doesn't exist?

you claim PR has these issues? So much so its just a terrible experience? Because of the scoreboard? You say that Arma went to **** because they updated the scoreboard? Or maybe its none of those things, and the scoreboard has nothing to do with it. Maybe arma went to **** because the community shifted with Dayz, Maybe PR had the same issue with 1.0 was released because again the community shifted.

I'm sick of people claiming "no scorboard means no bad play" when squad DOESN"T HAVE ONE, and literally 80% of my squads ignore SL, tactics,  and run around zergling style.  It is not the scoreboard, and it never has been. COD and BF have stupid play because the games were DESIGNED that way, and REWARD that play Regardless of the scoreboard. Look at any esport. What makes teams play well? is it the scoreboard? no, that is absolutely silly. PLAYERS play ****, regardless of a scoreboard. (they do affect each other in outlier cases but they DO NOT directly cause and initiate COD/BF play)

after finally getting my first match with good SL (ross/jink/m81) My opinion on this has shifted, Its not about the scoreboard showing or not, its about the community and how they play. Good community means good play regardless of scoreboard. PR is going through the same issues right now and they made no changes to scoreboards.

never add kill confirming, scoreboard should show full range of stats but ONLY at the end of the round with no updates during a live match.

A message saying you killed a teammate is a good idea.

Admins should have full access to all updating data KD/teamkills and otherwise. 

Edited by KCIV
Removed language.

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So if you are repeatedly team killed you wouldn't want to know who is doing it, so you could bring it to an admins attention without them having to check logs. Team kills need to be shown.

 

Agreed, teamkills need to be shown publicly.

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What I'm saying is, I'm so used to seeing

Joey - knifed - Sammy

Hero - teamkilled - Kittypoo

YOU GOT A KILL!!!

YOU TEAMKILLED SOMEBODY! OMG!

YOU CAPTURED THE FLAG!

 

 -- Not to mention that involuntary compulsive scoreboard check. With no scoreboard, there's no desire to stab TAB every 15 seconds. When all that is taken away, it's incredible.

 

It's like hiking in the woods with no cellphone or watch or distractions. It really helps draw you into your surroundings -- very enjoyable.

 

I mean, if I could, I'd have no scoreboard and limited map use just to help people stay focused on what's around them.

 

Agreed, teamkills need to be shown publicly.

 

Griefers should be publicly banned, but admins should be able to be alerted about teamkills by script. Scripts can easily pinpoint griefers to the point that admins can take action.

 

Point is, why are you going to complain to the admins when the server scripts should already be doing that automatically.

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Griefers should be publicly banned, but admins should be able to be alerted about teamkills by script. Scripts can easily pinpoint griefers to the point that admins can take action.

 

Point is, why are you going to complain to the admins when the server scripts should already be doing that automatically.

 

I completely agree, but that will take more time to add then simply notifying the admins.  As much as we need anti teamkill and griefer stuff, we also need vehicles and prone so those are higher priority.  

 

We are early on in development, and awesome admin tools are unfortunatly not something that is will added in at this phase.

 

 

Additionally, if the teamkill notification stuff sucks and everyone hates it, it's a one button press to remove it.  Personally, I think giving feedback for an event like that only helps the quality of the game, as it teaches the player how to distinguish enemies from friendlies.  The notification is a after-it-happens event... we aren't preventing it, we are just telling you it happened so you can do better next time. 

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Maybe the solution is to just group it into a squad stat and not apply/show them individually?

 

Edit -- because I can see cases where it would be important to know.  Especially in this stage of development -- like us blaming our skills vs faulty mechanics

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Maybe the solution is to just group it into a squad stat and not apply/show them individually?

 

Edit -- because I can see cases where it would be important to know.  Especially in this stage of development -- like us blaming our skills vs faulty mechanics

 

I will be exploring this.  It might be this week or next week, I'm not sure.  IronTaxi wanted to try it, so it sounds like a good plan.  

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Squad k/d sounsd like a good idea i think.

 

tk messages for everyone is mandatory i think. Dont know how often i got poked by other players who reported tks or asked whats going on. its not easy to get a picture when you are in a fight and even as admin you might miss something. 

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Additionally, if the teamkill notification stuff sucks and everyone hates it, it's a one button press to remove it.  Personally, I think giving feedback for an event like that only helps the quality of the game, as it teaches the player how to distinguish enemies from friendlies.  The notification is a after-it-happens event... we aren't preventing it, we are just telling you it happened so you can do better next time. 

 

I agree, even with automatic friendly fire and TK messages to the player in PR, it can still take a while for new players to realise their mistake. Nothing worse than being shot at by friendlies that haven't taken the hint. 

 

As for automatic kick script as MuffriDer mentions, the issue with that is all it takes is one truck driver with a full vehicle to run over your carefully placed and marked out mine and then you're kicked for someone else's mistake. 

 

Lastly a squad KDR is a good idea.

 

Cheers, Murkey.

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An alternative could be to notify teamkills only if it is done by the same person in a row, thereby the the feeling which MuffriDer described could be conservated, while still inform the public about potential griefers. So finally, instead of publishing that annoucement on first offence the system adds a counter to an internal variable and if it is reaches the threshold then teamkiller will be exposed; the threadshold could be adjusted via a server variable.

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Not sure if this is an issue or not.

 

As a fairly new player when I started PR.. I couldn't tell friend form foe.. and the kits were very similar, i fired a rocket at a hill about 400 meters out... I tked 3 friendlies and got BANNED from the server. I did not do this on purpose, I was in all intentions a new player. Banning people is not always the right thing to do, how will this be addressed by the admins? Especially for new players when shooting at distance is not always easy and the friendly tags are turned off (as they are on many PR servers). 

 

Also the amount of idiots who walk in front of me suppressing with the saw... and yet i get the tk..

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It would be an admin decision to ban you in the long-term. If you were a noob, you'd have to go to their forums and explain. Some people who are noobs get vouched for by experienced players when they are wrongly banned.

 

I've teamkilled 3 admins in a row before, but didn't get banned because of the circumstances: Uniform similarity issues while using an ironsight autorifle at a distance.

 

On another topic, admins are going need powerful tools to manage players. PIDs should get server-side persistent records for admin research, etc..

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I think its important that you get notified when you tk friendly, even without an admin whos in the background. If there is a Noob with his SAW and he tks a friendly player he will notice that he shoots friendlies and most likely stop, but if not, he will kill maybe an entire squad and will only realise when an admin notifies him. Only adds much drama and make small problems big... Even in PR you had much to deal with people who didnt stop shooting when they tk because they just missed the message. Mistakes happen...

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