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SL Gir

Team Calibration Indicator

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I propose something I coin Team calibration indicator,

 

a small percentage indicator in the score board for each side and a small coloured icon for Squad leaders.

 

how it works;

 

every time the map changes, the server tracks who stays on the server and within the same team.  If everyone stays exactly the same you team will get a team calibration score of 100%.  if say on team 2 (36 players) 12 players leave the server and 12 new people join, the calibration will drop to 66%.

 

what this allows is a form of prematch inteligence that can really help teamwork in that SLeaders in particular know what they are working with and can adjust their command style to suit.

 

additionally each squad leader will have a red amber or green colour higlighting their current play session calibration.  red = 1st game as SL amber = 2 green =3 sessions played.  this allows the squad members to trust the judgment of their SL and thus more likeley to follow orders without bickering. 

 

this information is purely per session and does not track into other games, something i would be very carefull to implement as we dont want there to be a barrier to being SL. ie  SL rank where people dont join your squad because you have no experience tracked and thus never get any experience etc etc

 

I wrote a big long intro why i thought this would be usefull to me and then my phone died.. So i will leave this to the community to think about how this may help or hinder SQAUDS gameplay.

 

For me the main (not really an issue) issue is... it takes a few games to know if the teams are unbalanced.. a few rounds to learn if the other side is well organised, and then what tactics to implement to succesfully battle the enemy.. then i have to stop cos 3 games is like 3 hrs sometimes.

 

I open this up to the community to imagine if this is a usefull indicator, go!

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6 hours ago, SL Gir said:

we dont want there to be a barrier to being SL. ie  SL rank where people dont join your squad because you have no experience tracked and thus never get any experience etc etc

 

Funny that people love making proposals that will make the game more "realistic" but the last thing they want is to add in the most fundamental aspect of the military: true chain-of-command (which is based around rank and experience). You're not qualified to lead anything if you don't have the experience and the training.

 

"Military-realism" apparently just means "realistic guns and stuff dude."

 

Exactly why do you not want a barrier to be Squad Leader? Why? For what? Will it hurt the sensetive feelings of players if they get an error message that says, "You have only played 1 hour of Squad. You need 100 hours to play as Squad Leader" or "You're a private. You need to be at least Sergeant" to be a Squad Leader.

 

You're worried about players not wanting to join a player's Squad because he's a new Squad Leader, so you're concerned about his gameplay experience but not everyone else's...and yet you propose a way that quasi-tracks how long the SL has been squad leader. What?

 

What's up with this generation of pathetically weak sensitive males who easily get their feelings hurt and want everyone to be a winner?

 

News flash: a person without experience isn't qualified for the task.

 

 

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5 hours ago, LuckyJack888 said:

 

Funny that people love making proposals that will make the game more "realistic" but the last thing they want is to add in the most fundamental aspect of the military: true chain-of-command (which is based around rank and experience). You're not qualified to lead anything if you don't have the experience and the training.

 

"Military-realism" apparently just means "realistic guns and stuff dude."

 

Exactly why do you not want a barrier to be Squad Leader? Why? For what? Will it hurt the sensetive feelings of players if they get an error message that says, "You have only played 1 hour of Squad. You need 100 hours to play as Squad Leader" or "You're a private. You need to be at least Sergeant" to be a Squad Leader.

 

You're worried about players not wanting to join a player's Squad because he's a new Squad Leader, so you're concerned about his gameplay experience but not everyone else's...and yet you propose a way that quasi-tracks how long the SL has been squad leader. What?

 

What's up with this generation of pathetically weak sensitive males who easily get their feelings hurt and want everyone to be a winner?

 

News flash: a person without experience isn't qualified for the task.

 

 

You seem to be forgetting that Squad's player-base and community is tiny. Trying to place arbitrary rank or time restrictions on things like being able to lead a squad would do nothing more than drive a wedge into the player-base and discourage new players from ever attempting anything new. 

 

You seem to be placing all the blame strictly on the new players who try squad leading, but if they are the only ones who are stepping up out of the dozens of other people on the team who potentially have more experience, whose fault is it really then?

 

With such a small community, if more veteran players choose not to squad lead, you're leaving those roles to be filled by anyone, whether they are decent or not. The only way people are going to get better at leading squads, is by actually getting experience in doing so.

 

The accessibility of Squad is in my opinion one of its greatest strengths. You can join a random server, jump into a random squad, grab a regular kit, and odds are pretty good you're going to have a unique experience that is rarely found outside of organized gaming communities or events. 

 

 

 

 

 

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I appreciate both arguments here and i dont mind having a small grace period before you can SL, but ultimately I dont want people to start saying 'you cant SL here, your not good enough'   and besides sadly you have picked up the least important part of my post, any thoughts on the calibration indicator, would you find it useful to know such information?

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7 hours ago, LuckyJack888 said:

 

Funny that people love making proposals that will make the game more "realistic" but the last thing they want is to add in the most fundamental aspect of the military: true chain-of-command (which is based around rank and experience). You're not qualified to lead anything if you don't have the experience and the training.

 

"Military-realism" apparently just means "realistic guns and stuff dude."

 

Exactly why do you not want a barrier to be Squad Leader? Why? For what? Will it hurt the sensetive feelings of players if they get an error message that says, "You have only played 1 hour of Squad. You need 100 hours to play as Squad Leader" or "You're a private. You need to be at least Sergeant" to be a Squad Leader.

 

You're worried about players not wanting to join a player's Squad because he's a new Squad Leader, so you're concerned about his gameplay experience but not everyone else's...and yet you propose a way that quasi-tracks how long the SL has been squad leader. What?

 

What's up with this generation of pathetically weak sensitive males who easily get their feelings hurt and want everyone to be a winner?

 

News flash: a person without experience isn't qualified for the task.

 

 

 

 

What you continue to propose on several threads now is NOT feasible. You will end up with servers filled with people who can't be a SL and no one else is able to or willing to do so and therefore you have just successfully locked out a ton of players from a major portion of the game; i.e. unable to use vehicles, unable to select anything other than the basic kits, unable to communicate with anyone other than local and/or chat comms. This isn't going to happen. 

We have said, since the very beginning, that we will not be implementing a rank structure or imposing restrictions on players based on hours played in the game. 

 

It doesn't benefit anyone to apply restrictions like this. New players are a fact of any game. We all want to see the game succeed, otherwise why would be here? As new players come on board, as veteran players it helps to coach them up and help them to learn the ropes and the various game metas. In the end that will help people more than anything else. I have played many games with new players as Squad leaders. While it can be a bit of a hassle at times, in the end having another player who knows more about the game and is a bit more competent in the end is worth it. There is nothing saying that you have to stay in that squad if they aren't taking advice very well. But again, that is the very nature of the internet. 

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6 hours ago, Odin said:

 

 

What you continue to propose on several threads now is NOT feasible. You will end up with servers filled with people who can't be a SL and no one else is able to or willing to do so and therefore you have just successfully locked out a ton of players from a major portion of the game; i.e. unable to use vehicles, unable to select anything other than the basic kits, unable to communicate with anyone other than local and/or chat comms. This isn't going to happen. 

We have said, since the very beginning, that we will not be implementing a rank structure or imposing restrictions on players based on hours played in the game. 

 

It doesn't benefit anyone to apply restrictions like this. New players are a fact of any game. We all want to see the game succeed, otherwise why would be here? As new players come on board, as veteran players it helps to coach them up and help them to learn the ropes and the various game metas. In the end that will help people more than anything else. I have played many games with new players as Squad leaders. While it can be a bit of a hassle at times, in the end having another player who knows more about the game and is a bit more competent in the end is worth it. There is nothing saying that you have to stay in that squad if they aren't taking advice very well. But again, that is the very nature of the internet. 

 

That is a complete over exaggeration. This is a the reality of what is happening:

 

2 squads are created by veteran players

3 are created by noobs

2 more are created by veteran players

1 veteran player wants to create a squad but realizes there's already 7, so he joins one of the other squads

noobody joins the 2 late veteran squads, so the veteran SLs either join another squad...or perhaps wait for people to get annoyed with their SL and join their squad

 

This happens to me all the time. In fact, in my last game (like many other veteran players, I just uninstalled the game for now, because I'm tired of the devs not addressing noobs) a guy with less than 30 minutes of game time was the SL. Thankfully he passed it off to me, and I made a point (as I always do when I encounter a new player) to teach him a few things about the game.

 

Squad is not a kindergarten FPS; the game is much more complex than your typical shooter. Why no forced tutorial? Bootcamp? Squad Leader training?

 

You don't even have to prevent people from becoming Squad Leader with a rank system, but showing rank can be a way of letting veteran players know that an SL is inexperienced. Out of the 7 squads mentioned above, who will you join? Some vets will join the squad led by a private because they're in the mood to teach someone this COMPLEX game, while others will join a squad led by a Sergeant, Staff Sergeant or higher.

 

Don't want ranks whatsoever? Okay, how about an in-game tutorial? Is it really too much to ask that a player must complete the squad leader tutorial before being able to lead eight other players? Is it too much to ask that a player have some idea of what an SL needs to do, so that he doesn't ruin the gaming experience for 31 other players?

 

Yes, a single squad led by a noob can ensure a frustrating, catastrophic defeat. So you want to make a few noobs happy, while sacrificing the fun of others?

 

That doesn't make sense at all.

 

It doesn't benefit anyone to literally have a system in place where noobs are encouraged (yes, encouraged) to ruin the gaming experience of others. It doesn't benefit anyone to have veteran players dread the game going on sale, instead of being excited that the community is expanding.

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, SL Gir said:

every time the map changes, the server tracks who stays on the server and within the same team.  If everyone stays exactly the same you team will get a team calibration score of 100%.  if say on team 2 (36 players) 12 players leave the server and 12 new people join, the calibration will drop to 66%.

 

what this allows is a form of prematch inteligence that can really help teamwork in that SLeaders in particular know what they are working with and can adjust their command style to suit.

This would be an interesting feature to have because you can see how long people are staying in the server but I don't think the data would be significantly helpful. I tend to recognize the names of people who played with me in the previous round. Even if the data shows that the server population is 70% fresh is doesn't tell us actual player experience. There is no way to tell if you just got an influx of noobs or vets.

 

Wait ::gasp:: there actually is a way to tell if you've got vets or noobs: ranks.

 

Simply glancing over and seeing that guys have two or three chevrons can let the SL know what he's dealing with. If most of your guys are privates, you'll know that you probably need to explain a few things about the game. I don't mind teaching people the game; in fact, I often created squads called "NOOBS" just to attract new players so I can show them a fun and educational gaming experience (because this COMPLEX game has no tutorial).

 

There would be less anger or annoyance projected at squad leaders because fellow squad members can see that the SL is an experienced Master Sergeant, but the squad is mostly made up of privates and PFCs.

 

Also, there would certainly be a sense of pride if you beat a team that collectively outranked you.

 

Funny that players will work they're butts off for rank and recognition, and that means more game time...but ranks are a bad idea right?

 

In short, I think your suggestion has merit, but what it achieves is done very easily with ranks that reflect overall playtime and/or skill and/or completion of tutorials.

 

Your suggestion would be good for marketing and game development if the data is collected by the game studio. If tons of players leave a server (even though their team won) perhaps it's because the players don't like the next map.

 

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people pays their money, entitled to do with the game what they want ... whether servers will tolerate certain things is up to the admins..  

 

why have ranks? it adds nothing to the game .. the objective of the game is to win objectives not ranks... all that would happen is that certain SLs would kick all those out of their squad with a certain rank to get elitist... never allowing noobs..or sticking in the title of the squad 'higher than x rank only'...

 

I get people want to play with experienced SLs but it doesn't help new players if all they ever get to do is get stuck with other new players... so imo there needs no ranking and continued mixture of players.

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what about knowing if the current playerbase on that particular  server is settled in or completely fresh set of soldiers .. If you join a team with 66% calibration vs a team of 25% i think it would give a nice insight to the game your about to play.

 

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lol it's like a broken record...

 

giphy.gif

 

 

Again...

 

Squad doesn't need stats. 

Squad doesn't need ranks.

Squad doesn't need restrictions placed for people new or vets to SL.

Squad needs an optional basic training tutorial. 

 

Question: In what ways will an optional basic training tutorial go against what the developers are trying to achieve with SQUAD?

Answer: None as it only offers benefits. The possible drawback is unknown return on investment. I would argue that taking a new players through a 30 minute dynamic tutorial meant to properly introduce the game and its mechanics will yield very positive results in the community and appeal to a larger audience. 

 

If the devs decided to allocate a small but reasonable portion of their time into making this tutorial it should not hinder the on-going progress and also be ready by official release. 

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its more a broken record if people keep talking about rank even in threads that got nothing to do with it :)

 

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29 minutes ago, SL Gir said:

its more a broken record if people keep talking about rank even in threads that got nothing to do with it :)

 

Well what you're suggesting is a server-side stat. Ranks by definition are also a form of a stat. You're suggesting a statistic meant to showcase the playtime rate of a Squad Leader from one session to the next session on the server. I can see a few flaws with that logic:

 

  • Someone can be an extremely bad SL that got carried by the other SL's in match #1. Now match #2 starts and that same bad SL will have an inaccurate representation as being "Green". Basically inflating the statistics to their favor and causing mass confusion for the team. 

 

  • Just because you lost a round or two as a Squad Leader doesn't necessarily mean that you were a bad Squad Leader...You can make all the right moves and still lose a game....

Your suggestion was only one of many aimed to remedy the same issues the community has been encountering for months if not since day 1. And that is squad's inability to differentiate between experienced and "new" players as well as a lack of proper training method designed to get players acquainted with the mechanics before making game-changing mistakes on multiplayer. Again, I understand where you're coming from but any form of statistic whether server-side or client-side shouldn't be abused. Your suggestion opens it up for a lot of abuse and inaccuracy... :( 

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1 hour ago, CptDirty said:

Your suggestion was only one of many aimed to remedy the same issues the community has been encountering for months if not since day 1. And that is squad's inability to differentiate between experienced and "new" players as well as a lack of proper training method designed to get players acquainted with the mechanics before making game-changing mistakes on multiplayer.

 

The absense of ranks causes all kinds of issues that are readily solved simply by having ranks. Why a military game whose game studio prides itself on realism in various aspects is so against ranks doesn't make any sense. Once again, players across many different game genres work for ranks, recognition, unlocks, prized weapons and armor, magic items, etc. In a multiplayer community, ranks and recognition are a source of pride and accomplishment for the individual player. Do you know the US Army originally didn't want to issue medals, but then realized the error of their ways? Also check out the history of unit badges. It wasn't the army that came up with them, soldiers made their own patches to distinguish themselves as belonging to a particular unit. Imagine an FPS game studio that decides they want to be different, so they don't allow clan tags. It can be done, but then it makes it a little more annoying to recognize those who are in your clan if your group is large.

 

You made a suggestion for an optional tutorial, but since this game is an FPS, how many people are going to go through it, thinking that "this is an FPS, how complex can it be?"

 

In the absense of ranks—which is the absense of the ability to show other players your accomplishment, the absense of being able to distinguish new players that need more help, and the absense of being able to tell who is likely going to be a better squad leader—the game could also simply show whether or not a player is qualified or unqualified. Didn't complete the tutorial? Then you're unqualified...but perhaps you can still be a squad leader, but your name will be in noob yellow or some such. But again, ranks solve the problem.

 

 

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@LuckyJack888  because:

19 hours ago, Odin said:

We have said, since the very beginning, that we will not be implementing a rank structure or imposing restrictions on players based on hours played in the game. 

They are the developers and ultimately it is their decision. I actually respect them for not budging in order to please a select few. Now @LuckyJack888 instead of beating a dead horse and keep suggesting ranks with very good arguments we need to find another type of suggestion apart from ranks that will help resolve the issues we're facing. What other ideas can you think of?

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3 hours ago, CptDirty said:

@LuckyJack888  because:

They are the developers and ultimately it is their decision. I actually respect them for not budging in order to please a select few. Now @LuckyJack888 instead of beating a dead horse and keep suggesting ranks with very good arguments we need to find another type of suggestion apart from ranks that will help resolve the issues we're facing. What other ideas can you think of?

If you read my posts I have already offered other ideas.

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16 hours ago, LuckyJack888 said:

This happens to me all the time

I am just going to point this out quick. 

I am sorry but I think you've had enough bad experience with this game already which is acceptable. 
I personally play on one server only, It's 80% time well balanced. I didn't notice till i changed the server for one day and results were bit.... annoying. 

We all have to realize that Squad is still in alpha so many will change in the future. 

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Like I have said before... If you want to Implement Rank into squad, join a clan that uses a ranking structure

 

Example Clan name, rank, your name.

SOD,Pvt,Devastation

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1 minute ago, Devastation said:

Like I have said before... If you want to Implement Rank into squad, join a clan that uses a ranking structure

 

Example Clan name, rank, your name.

SOD,Pvt,Devastation

^ This

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48 minutes ago, Devastation said:

Like I have said before... If you want to Implement Rank into squad, join a clan that uses a ranking structure

 

Example Clan name, rank, your name.

SOD,Pvt,Devastation

::face palm::

 

The point isn't to have ranks for the sake of ranks. It's to show who is and isn't a NOOB. Holy smokes, did you read anything other than the word "rank" before you decided to respond?

 

I just played three rounds loaded with noob squad leaders and it was a complete mess of frustration. Then you have one guy sitting in a squad alone spamming the command channel.

 

Games are supposed to be FUN. Playing with noob squad leaders in a COMPLEX fps that has no tutorials and no way to separate the inexperienced and UNQUALIFIED from veterans is NOT FUN. How many people have to say this?

 

The devs want to be unique and pander to a generation of males that believe everyone can be a winner. "You are all qualified to be squad leaders." GTFO

 

Score means very little in Squad. There is no recognition. There is no sense of accomplishment. There is no way to tell the unqualified noob who will ruin your gaming experience from the guys that know their stuff.

 

Everyone gets a trophy! Everyone is qualified to lead! NO THEY'RE NOT

 

 

 

 

Edited by LuckyJack888

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is there currently any helper text associated with creating a new squad. Like the medic help text popups.

First time in it could be a 2 step process.

 

eg

  • I'm new
  • I play a bit
  • I click Create Squad for the first time
  • Instead of making the squad it pops up the help text which says something like "Due to the importance of the squad leader in this game it is best to play with other squads for a period and ask questions before creating as squad of your own. Click here to see the help page. Click here to ignore.[1/3]"
  • Make it repeat the message for the first 3 times it is ignored. After that it is reset like other help messages.

 

This allows the player to create a new squad but makes it more overwelming.

 

I've never been welmed...how would I know if i was overwelmed? Is it related to whelm?

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ok! all valid points, I would argue for the team calibration indicator over the SL colour thing though! as its the knowing how well calibrated the server is that I really care about...   i think its sets up the story if a team calibrated at 25% is going against a team 75% its just nice to know that the side your on is fresh so you can start to open up your ideas ... you often get a SL on the first round (veteran or newb) of their night start barking orders to other SL who have been on the server for 2 hrs, its like "woah check out this dude, here 5 minutes and already thinks he knows whats gonna happen".. would be a nice touch is all,, got nothing to do with rank.

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On 11/5/2017 at 9:14 PM, LuckyJack888 said:

::face palm::

 

The point isn't to have ranks for the sake of ranks. It's to show who is and isn't a NOOB. Holy smokes, did you read anything other than the word "rank" before you decided to respond?

 

I just played three rounds loaded with noob squad leaders and it was a complete mess of frustration. Then you have one guy sitting in a squad alone spamming the command channel.

 

Games are supposed to be FUN. Playing with noob squad leaders in a COMPLEX fps that has no tutorials and no way to separate the inexperienced and UNQUALIFIED from veterans is NOT FUN. How many people have to say this?

 

The devs want to be unique and pander to a generation of males that believe everyone can be a winner. "You are all qualified to be squad leaders." GTFO

 

Score means very little in Squad. There is no recognition. There is no sense of accomplishment. There is no way to tell the unqualified noob who will ruin your gaming experience from the guys that know their stuff.

 

Everyone gets a trophy! Everyone is qualified to lead! NO THEY'RE NOT

 

 

 

 

There is no way to tell who is a noob or a veteran. The developers have already said that they're not adding rank into SQUAD.

 So Instead of making 20.000 threads about implementing rank in squad, just use the forums search box. FFS!!!

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1 minute ago, Devastation said:

There is no way to tell who is a noob or a veteran. The developers have already said that they're not adding rank into SQUAD.

 So Instead of making 20.000 threads about implementing rank in squad, just use the forums search box. FFS!!!

Wow. If you actually read my post you'd see I was offering suggestions OTHER THAN RANKS.

 

::face palm:: again

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12 minutes ago, LuckyJack888 said:

Wow. If you actually read my post you'd see I was offering suggestions OTHER THAN RANKS.

 

::face palm:: again

Yup, I read them and quite frankly I don't give a s***... don't you think the "Devs" already thought all of this out already ?

 

Face palm :$

Edited by Devastation

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On 2017. 11. 6. at 11:14 AM, LuckyJack888 said:

The point isn't to have ranks for the sake of ranks. It's to show who is and isn't a NOOB. Holy smokes, did you read anything other than the word "rank" before you decided to respond?

That's why I am not for the ranks... I can assure you for the half of the time, if the ranks would implemented, all the lower ranks would have problem joining the squads. 

 

On 2017. 11. 6. at 11:14 AM, LuckyJack888 said:

just played three rounds loaded with noob squad leaders and it was a complete mess of frustration. Then you have one guy sitting in a squad alone spamming the command channel.

You have every right to change squad/team/server at your convenience. I know how it feels to play with SLs w/ low experiences of the game. it sucks. Just change squad or dig a new one for the sake of better game-play.

On 2017. 11. 6. at 11:14 AM, LuckyJack888 said:

Playing with noob squad leaders in a COMPLEX fps that has no tutorials and no way to separate the inexperienced and UNQUALIFIED from veterans is NOT FUN. How many people have to say this?

So in other words, you just don't like newbies.. Sorry to break it to you. You will always have newbies in this game daily basis. You need to learn to deal with it. 

On 2017. 11. 6. at 11:14 AM, LuckyJack888 said:

The devs want to be unique and pander to a generation of males that believe everyone can be a winner. "You are all qualified to be squad leaders." GTFO

Would you elaborate this?

On 2017. 11. 6. at 11:14 AM, LuckyJack888 said:

Score means very little in Squad. There is no recognition. There is no sense of accomplishment. There is no way to tell the unqualified noob who will ruin your gaming experience from the guys that know their stuff.

Actually it does tell quite a lot. 

On 2017. 11. 6. at 11:14 AM, LuckyJack888 said:

Everyone gets a trophy! Everyone is qualified to lead! NO THEY'RE NOT

Squad lacks of basic tutorial. But remember, everyone including you and me had to start from somewhere. 

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