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Mad Ani

Quality of players during sales and the game being ruined

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Helping the noobs https://www.twitch.tv/videos/185311578

Probably be doing the same again this free weekend and I`ll ask all my experienced guys to step up and help out. The problem is constantly repeating and holding hands which then in turn doesn't exactly let you enjoy a "proper round".

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No one is being arrogant by suggesting some ways to improve the gaming experience. New players don't know what they're doing when it comes to being a Squad Leader. That isn't arrogance, that's a fact.

 

Yes, the reality is that the first few times I was a Squad Leader I messed up so bad that I cost (or contributed) to my team losing the round. That means I directly or indirectly contributed to ruining someone else's fun—and gaming is about having fun. I even had downloaded and watched every video on YouTube I could find about being an SL. Many videos cover basic leadership skills as opposed to game mechanics, strategic FOB placement, etc. In any case, what is better?

 

  1. Getting yelled at and ridiculed for being an "idiot Squad Leader" because people online have a special kind of viciousness since they're not in the same room with you.
  2. Having your name rendered in "noob yellow" until you've accumulated x-amount of hours. In this way, veteran players see that you're new and will take it easier on you. Plus, once again, they'll be a certain amount of pride and accomplishment when your team has more "yellow colored" "noob Squad Leaders" and players on the scoreboard , and yet you guys won the round.

 

I just don't see how it's better to have a situation that breeds resentment and insults. If it were not for me having thick skin, perhaps I would have decided to hang up my SL hat or forget about this game altogether. I remember one player who made it a point to insult me every time he saw me as an SL simply because of mistakes I had made several rounds ago.

 

Some people seem to think that identifying new guys either by hours played, a special name color, rank, or whatever, is going to bring out the worst in players, but I think it's quite the opposite. I'm confident that distinguishing new players will encourage people to have patience and understanding, and a readiness to be helpful.

 

In my last two rounds last night there was a new SL, and it was obvious because he had the courage to ask how to place a FOB over the command channel. I helped him out repeatedly, and no other SL yelled at him. In fact, I've never heard anyone belittle a guy for being new. The core of the problem is most guys won't say "I'm new," and then there's an assumption that they're not new, and then they start messing up, and then you have to figure out whether the guy is new or just a bad SL. The game is fast paced and agressive, so what happens? The assumption from all-too-many players is that the guy is just a bad SL, and then comes yelling, insults, beating the person down, etc.

 

Even when the worst doesn't happen, how many times have players joined your squad and said, "I just came from that other squad. The squad leader is new, he doesn't know what he's doing."

 

What a lot of us are suggesting is simply to make it obvious going in that the SL is new. If you're in the mood to deal with someone's learning curve, fine, but if you're not in the mood to be patient, then join a veteran SL's squad. Plenty of guys, myself included, will be making it a point to join a new SL's squad. Why? Because we love this game and want to see this community expand...and the best way to do that is to give people a warm welcome and patiently show them the ropes.

 

LOADING...

 

Welcome to Squad. Players with yellow names are newcomers to our community. Please give them a warm welcome and have a little patience as they learn the ropes. Thank you for choosing Squad as your #1 FPS.

 

 

 

 

Edited by LuckyJack888

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10 minutes ago, Kendo said:

 

The keyword there being "if".  I think people shoot themselves in the foot sometimes because we all know Squad can get very "high octane" and a lot of pressure can be put on SLs.  Not many people will come forward and say "sorry, I'm new".  Cant blame them really with the internet being the way it is.

There shouldnt be a "sorry im new". How can you be sorry about that. More like a "sorry I didnt treat you right".

 

The only plan there can be between the squads, is the plan they all agree on. Every squadleader is the highest in command. There is no way you can tell any squadleader what he should do as a squadleader, because he is on the same level of command as any other squadleader. I think that is very important to know, as that means, that any squadleader can do what he thinks is the right thing.

I remember squads being all over the place, but the only thing i would ever asked them, if they can help me out here or there, if not, its up to them and their reason why they are on the map, where they are. 

Every squadleader has his own tactics and strategies, i know its a bit problematic to deal with it, but its the way it is, as a good squadleader you should be able to deal with that. 

 

Now, if a squadleader has 0 hours and doesnt tell you, you still should treat him like you would any other squadleader, with the highest of respect to his squad. If someone doesnt ask for help, he doesnt want it. You can say "if you want, i can help you" but if he doesnt want it, dont force to help.

 

I remember being in a squad with a new squadleader, he said to us "Im sorry, im new to squadlead". I was fine with it, we as squadmembers tried our best to make his plans for us come true, even though for a lot of time we were outside of the action, and where we were needed, but for him as his role, it was something he needed. It showed him that he can play out his plans and the squad is going to follow. The strategy comes later. The worst thing though, other squadleaders bullshitted on him, that he wasnt anywhere near a flag, and even as a new squadleader it was a bad performance. 

It might make him try other strategies but it also might never want to play squadleader again and thus, loosing someone who had the balls to try being squadleader!

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31 minutes ago, Elirah said:

He just told you the standards he upholds. So he did just what you expect from him.

 

-snip-

No he really didn't. If a parent walks into the room to catch their children screaming at each other, the best course of action is not to scream at them to shut the hell up. So if a developer or someone who is a public representative of the development team comes into a derailed thread about noobs being shit and then goes on a rant about how they are all the real noobs in his eyes, then he's really not contributing anything. My real point was that this community is cancerous enough without devs getting into the shit themselves. I want these forums to go back to the way they were ~2015, was much more friendly and welcoming. But having a QA Tester behave this way only undermines the credibility of the development team.

 

I want things to go back to the way they were, but that won't happen if devs are getting involved in this too. Reigning in the shitslinging is the job of the moderators and in extreme circumstances the community manager, but for someone like him to get involved regardless of the point he made, is destructive to the community. It's outside his field of responsibility and just alienates community members. 

 

I suppose what I'm trying to say is this; it's not something worth destroying relationships between the community and the developers over. These guys will vent their frustrations and do whatever it is they do, but as soon as a dev sticks their hands in they are adding fuel to the fire, and doing so in an extremely condescending and inflammatory way will only serve to destroy this community.

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With a daily average of 2600 players in the entire world new players are the solution and certainly not a problem. As far as difficulty level goes it took my 11 year old about 5 minutes to figure out the complete game dynamic so some of you are really underestimating the intelligence level of the average person attracted to this sort of game. I'm really looking forward to this free weekend.

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5 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

With a daily average of 2600 players in the entire world new players are the solution and certainly not a problem. As far as difficulty level goes it took my 11 year old about 5 minutes to figure out the complete game dynamic so some of you are really underestimating the intelligence level of the average person attracted to this sort of game. I'm really looking forward to this free weekend.

Won't comment on the difficulty curve,.

But I agree on the free weekend, the most enjoyable games I've played have been with new guys on the weekend sale servers.

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30 minutes ago, NotBrad said:

Won't comment on the difficulty curve,.

But I agree on the free weekend, the most enjoyable games I've played have been with new guys on the weekend sale servers.

Agreed. I prefer the extreme chaos of a bunch of new players fresh from a CS:GO freestyle rap/prank call surfing server TKing each other and doing stupid shit vs. playing with a bunch of serious milsim nerds on their kiddy table servers where they constantly nag and bitch at people that don't play the game the way it's "supposed" to be played. Nothing makes noobs go flaccid quicker and turns then off using that $20 Steam card this weekend.

 

I mean face it we all play video games to have fun and forget about all the ugliness of this prison planet we occupy so save all the serious stuff for clan matches and have fun with the fresh crop of potatoes... welcome them... embrace them...

 

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Way to completely derail my thread guys, thanks. Topic is ideas about the quality and level of play, possible suggestions to improve things.

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7 minutes ago, Mad Ani said:

Way to completely derail my thread guys, thanks. Topic is ideas about the quality and level of play, possible suggestions to improve things.

Not really. In your original post you made the point that Squad was being "ruined" by an influx of new players. Somehow you got somebody to edit that part out and where I quoted it.

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Keep the thread on topic, no straying off with conversation, with having a go at one another. Does nothing and adds nothing to the thread.

 

Cleaned thread a little.

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Quality of play depends on how well admined servers are. Good players that genuinly tried goes to servers that are well admined and that seeks proper play.

 

 

Less interested and more casual players are such scattered at others.

 

Same for any online game. Nothing new.

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With a background of Socom, COD and CSGO, when I started playing during the v9 free weekend I found it had a steep learning curve as it was nothing like anything I've played before. Of course there is loads more the game could do to introduce new players, but I imagine that would be one of the last things a game developer would add, to be sure of not having to re-do it if and when things change / get added.

But that said, even in the finished games I've played heavily before there has always been a vast difference between the quality of games in matches and in public, and I've often reached a point when I couldn't be bothered with public games anymore. In a large scale team based shooter like this I think the difference is even more obvious (I can see it already and I'm still woeful at this game).

In games I've played competitively before, teams have always been active on competitive ladders. They aren't anywhere near as good as a proper knockout tournament like ISKT, but they are more like adding a bit of weight, competition and excitement of skrims. I don't know if the Squad community would be interested in such things, but I miss them.

Edited by KamikazeKenny

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Yeah, new players are great. The more the merrier. They shouldn't  be "barred" from going SL either...no way.  Give them a fair shot.

 

It would be good to be realistic about things too though.  I think we all want to make sure they have the best experience possible and, as the thread goes, try and keep the quality of gaming as high as it can potentially be in whatever way the situation allows.  To do that, people need to know what the situation is.

 

Communication is a key one, right? Pretty much every server I can think of has rules about needing a mic, at least for SL. The other day all the SL's bar one were getting a bit salty because one SL was simply not responding to anyone on the command net.  He was attacking enemy main at the time and we wanted to know what was going on, as you do. I think getting a bit pissy with him in this situation is 1) understandable, 2) fair, because those are the rules, and 3) the last resort you have in getting a potentially lazy or negligent SL to get a grip and respond, as is usually the case in this situation.  This pattern of getting progressively more pressuring is never going to change so long as you assume everyone is a regular.  The standard practice is to threaten him with a kick I do believe.

 

As it turns out, the SL was just new to the game and genuinely didn't know the keybinds to respond apparently.  0 hours played.  He kept direct chatting instead of command chatting or something, I dunno.  I only found this out because another SL got suspicious and looked him up on steam.  

 

No one told him what to do, no one helped him.  And he just didn't know any better.  As a result, everyone's gameplay suffered, his own included I'm sure. 

5 hours ago, Elirah said:

There shouldnt be a "sorry im new". How can you be sorry about that. More like a "sorry I didnt treat you right".

There's nothing to be "sorry" about when you're new -- I'm just British and we apologise if we inconvenienced someone's heel with our toe being in the way.  Point is -- how you treat someone depends on their context.  We cant treat everyone as if they are new -- that's ridiculous and condescending to regulars.  No one is honestly going to ask people like Nordic if he knows how to put up a FOB, and would he like a hand or explanation?  xD 

 

Saying we should all "just be nice" to everyone doesn't help either.  Asking someone nicely to please remember do his job he agreed to do, if he doesn't even understand what his job entails, doesn't achieve any benefit to a) the quality of team play; b) the individuals learning curve or c) said individual's enjoyment of the game.  Its a recipe for disappointed players and the main reason for this thread I do believe.

 

I want to help make sure these guys (hell, everyone even) have the best experience, but I don't think it'll happen until their context is known to the team.  Online gaming just doesn't work that way. To avoid 90% of the grief caused, like in the situation above, there needs to be a simple way of everyone seeing that someone is new. Let that context determine peoples expectations, behaviour and corresponding strategies.  Then, as you say, they can get on with their game and have fun.

 

As for being a *** to someone for being new after they have already made that known, well... those guys are the problem, not the new guy.

 

Edited by Kendo

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My suggestion to improve quality and level of play:

Change the attitude of regulars and veterans to the point, they accept and respect that they once were new too.

There is no reason to ever "pressure" someone else, or to get a grip... 

 

Good administration of the sever is the key too. 

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I agree that the SL class can be abused, I cant tell you how many times that I have joined a squad a requested a vehicle only to be told by the squad leader due to X reason, tickets, server pop etc. even tho everytime i can Solo or co op a vehicle i can go 40-0 KD and cap i have screenshots to prove it. however, that is a separate thread about how OP vehicles are in the current meta. 

 

no the reason for me posting on this thread is that there needs to be a way to define effective Squad leaders, otherwise your online experience may vary. 

 

in a game that focuses on communication for effectiveness, there needs to be some form of indicator that this squad leader is good or inexperienced.  

 

 

Clearly, there seems to be  a community requirement for this, Please review the solutions proposed:

 

1. ELO/MMR based system- similar to DOTA/Coh2 et any #esport game.

 

2. The voting system, when taking command of a squad the name and leadership are voted on by the players. the players receive a % rate of success reflective of the player they are voting on. i.e SturmtigerElrammstein- 100% this means that the player sees my rank as 100% certified to be a good SL by fulfilling most of the stats/or metrics the game deems for meta. this is similar to BLACKWAKE the game.

 

3. any of the other solutions proposed on this thread. 

 

4 add people you know are good to your steam friends when creating a squad invite them to play with you and teach noobies. create your own discord and be open to fostering and representing the squad community, albeit this will not solve the problem of bad squad leading. 

 

Please be aware that at any time anyone can create a squad, however, the squad system rules will apply. 

Edited by elrammstein

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16 minutes ago, elrammstein said:

2. The voting system, when taking command of a squad the name and leadership are voted on by the players. the players receive a % rate of success reflective of the player they are voting on. i.e SturmtigerElrammstein- 100% this means that the player sees my rank as 100% certified to be a good SL by fulfilling most of the stats/or metrics the game deems for meta. this is similar to BLACKWAKE the game.

 

I won't comment on the other points b/c i do agree for the most part 

This point, however, can be fall into loophole of abuse-ment as well. As you stated, you have been denied of getting a vehicle. I hope you have not resented toward SL at that point. For those of who are salty or do not care about the voting system will cause the great defect on the % 

That's my opinion that popped up in my mind when i read this, feel free to comment :)

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7 hours ago, Nordic said:

Quality of play depends on how well admined servers are. Good players that genuinly tried goes to servers that are well admined and that seeks proper play.

 

 

Less interested and more casual players are such scattered at others.

 

Same for any online game. Nothing new.

Poppycock. So now everybody needs a nanny just to play any dumb video game? Its just pixels on a monitor bro. Its very laughable that your definition of "proper play" is closely monitored behavior and obedience training. What gives you the right to qualify what constitutes a less than satisfactory gaming "experience"? When you play CS:GO casual does it make you uncomfortable because nobodies there to watch and nag? 

 

As you well know the rules for the game are already built into the game itself. What more do you need? Seven TK's gets you the boot and the main bases are protected from intrusion. Everything else the game itself allows should be allowed in a consistent manner across the board or else your server belongs in the custom server browser instead. Nannycam overlord admins and clan pro stacking are the reason for the decline in popularity of Squad as a whole and free weekends only solidify this mentality by turning off a whole new crop of potential players.

 

Trust me, if Offworld put up about 20 Wild Wild West servers with no admins this free weekend you'd see thousands of new people buy the game and stick around instead of getting refunds when they run into killers of fun like yourself.

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7 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Poppycock. So now everybody needs a nanny just to play any dumb video game? Its just pixels on a monitor bro. Its very laughable that your definition of "proper play" is closely monitored behavior and obedience training

First, drop your attitude. You being sarcastic doesn't really help in here 

Second, having a good admin sever is not a obedience training.. They are supposed to enforce the rules of the server. 

9 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

What gives you the right to qualify what constitutes a less than satisfactory gaming "experience"?

Everything... If you are a customer, you have every right to value the products. Same as how people talk about politics and general life matters. 

11 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Everything else the game itself allows should be allowed in a consistent manner across the board or else your server belongs in the custom server browser instead. Nannycam overlord admins and clan pro stacking are the reason for the decline in popularity of Squad as a whole and free weekends only solidify this mentality by turning off a whole new crop of potential players.

Once again, having a well admin server doesn't mean that sever has nanny cam. Fortunately, everything doesn't have to be so dramatic. That's why admins have discord and have ban appeal section so to see if certain players can be justified. 

 

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1 minute ago, samwiseOrigin said:

First, drop your attitude. You being sarcastic doesn't really help in here 

Second, having a good admin sever is not a obedience training.. They are supposed to enforce the rules of the server. 

Everything... If you are a customer, you have every right to value the products. Same as how people talk about politics and general life matters. 

Once again, having a well admin server doesn't mean that sever has nanny cam. Fortunately, everything doesn't have to be so dramatic. That's why admins have discord and have ban appeal section so to see if certain players can be justified. 

 

Its not sarcasm and you're totally missing the point. In the current formula there is basically a competition amongst servers to "attract" the severely limited amount of 2600 plus or minus available players to one's particular server out of 260 average servers that exist. This is why there is this constant "seeding" requests on various Discords etc. On the other hand, over the entire summer the 2Fjg Al Basrah server had virtually no admin night and day and it ended up being one of the funnest and most popular servers of the summer. It was basically full 24/7. 

 

So think about it. 2Fjg just put up the server and left it alone and didn't beg and plead people to show up and yet it was completely full night and day with extreme chaos and people had fun all summer long as I previously referred to it as the "Wild Wild West" and yet somehow enough people made static and threw shade their way and they had to pull it.

 

Tell me exactly whats the worst thing that could happen if Offworld put up 20 free range servers up this weekend and just left people alone and let all the new players simply play? OMG somebody would get their feeling hurt right?

 

   

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14 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Its not sarcasm and you're totally missing the point. In the current formula there is basically a competition amongst servers to "attract" the severely limited amount of 2600 plus or minus available players to one's particular server out of 260 average servers that exist. This is why there is this constant "seeding" requests on various Discords etc. On the other hand, over the entire summer the 2Fjg Al Basrah server had virtually no admin night and day and it ended up being one of the funnest and most popular servers of the summer. It was basically full 24/7. 

 

So think about it. 2Fjg just put up the server and left it alone and didn't beg and plead people to show up and yet it was completely full night and day with extreme chaos and people had fun all summer long as I previously referred to it as the "Wild Wild West" and yet somehow enough people made static and threw shade their way and they had to pull it.

 

Tell me exactly whats the worst thing that could happen if Offworld put up 20 free range servers up this weekend and just left people alone and let all the new players simply play? OMG somebody would get their feeling hurt right?

 

   

Ah, I see... I guess I was missing a bigger picture here haha 

Yea I do get on discord as soon as I turn my desktop on to be notified when seeding is going to happen. 
I never been on 2Fjg so I wouldn't know but I can see why it was booming. 

Tell me since I am curious, was there any incident(s) that left people in need of admins to sort the issue? I guess we can continue that discussion with that. 

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1 hour ago, Elirah said:

My suggestion to improve quality and level of play:

Change the attitude of regulars and veterans to the point, they accept and respect that they once were new too.

There is no reason to ever "pressure" someone else, or to get a grip... 

 

Good administration of the sever is the key too. 

 

Boom. Amen brother.

 

Everyone starts somewhere.

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7 hours ago, Elirah said:

My suggestion to improve quality and level of play:

Change the attitude of regulars and veterans to the point, they accept and respect that they once were new too.

There is no reason to ever "pressure" someone else, or to get a grip... 

 

Sorry mate, not going to happen.  Its a competitive game, and people are going to get competitive, and they're gonna start putting some of the pressure they feel on other SLs too.  This will always happen.  I'm trying to suggest a way that accepts this as a realistic part of the picture and minimises the bad aspects of it, particularly when new players are involved.

 

"Accepting and respecting that you were new once" is only useful for behaving appropriately to other new players.  That's how empathy works mate ...the key is in the word.  To do that, you need to know if someone is new or not.

 

So how, exactly, do you propose to "change the attitude of regulars and veterans" hmm?  There's no magic bag of pixie dust that'll help here.  We need to be more realistic about this.

 

As for telling someone to get a grip... all I mean is that sometimes you have to do be able to do the following.

 

is8cxQd.jpg

 

Whether its an admin or a player, people will always speak to people in a stern way when its the last resort they have before getting the guy kicked.  I was there in the above situation and it was 100% fair enough the way all the other SLs spoke to that guy, he was being an absolute catastrophe. Sometimes, yes, you DO need to tell people to get a grip.

 

Edited by Kendo

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I agreed the quality of play also comes down to how you admin the server. But unfortunately that does not entirely solve the mentality against new players. You could say the mentality somehow reflects how the world is today,  egoistic & selfcentered.

 

To me personally i try not to be bothered to much about new players. But since i never SL thats easy for me to say.

 

Abit of topic:
Since we have the free weekend coming up. Could there be some idea in enforcing speciel rules during that weekend. No clan stacking, No rushing first enemy flags (like desmo´s server). Try and even teams as best possible.

 

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8 minutes ago, S^^ said:

But unfortunately that does not entirely solve the mentality against new players. You could say the mentality somehow reflects how the world is today,  egoistic & selfcentered.

 

To me personally i try not to be bothered to much about new players. But since i never SL thats easy for me to say.

 

Agreed.  People should realise that new players are a good thing.  Just treat them as one of your friends whom you have just convinced to get the game.  Patience is a necessity.

 

Until we have a good way of telling when someone is new, however, I guess it's just good form to always ask people this weekend.  Every Squadmember, every SL.  Just say "hey, is anyone new here?  Would you like a hand" etc.  

 

Even if you don't go SL, it allows you to take someone under your wing a bit more since the SL will more often be busy already. When he's on command chat at the start of the round, you can help him out with asking the rest of the squad.

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