Jump to content
Mad Ani

Quality of players during sales and the game being ruined

Recommended Posts

30 minutes ago, CptDirty said:

@DefNotJake but this is the entire discussion. How do we minimize the liability of new players who pick up important roles that don't play them right. I agree that there are great YT videos out there explaining the game (in theory) but having an actual tutorial that could be made a requirement would prove to be the best practice. This is also a great way to actually lose it on someone when they make a really really bad move. At that point (after passing basic qualifications tutorial) you have every right to give them crap.

 

It's like math class. You can sit and listen all course long but without actually solving problems yourself you wont ever get better.

It would be great if they added a dynamic tutorial in the range, but that can take awhile depending how in-depth the want to go with it. Thinking right now, the easiest thing for OWI to add right now is having the inability for a new player to join a server till they have done certain things in the range.

For example:

A new player loads up squad for the first time, and the player is instantly taken to the training range. That player won't have the ability to leave the range till the player has completed certain tasks. These tasks should be super simple things like shooting down 5 targets with each type of gun. (LMGS, DMR's, Pistols, ect.) and also doing a staged logi run for a FOB already set up a simi long distance from a base. Once the player completes these things, he will then have the ability to join a server. However, he won't have the ability to be Squad leader or create a squad. If the player had interest in doing these things, he could then go back to the range, and do more checklist type tutorials in the range dedicated to the Squad leader class. There, he could be told to simply station a FOB by opening the Squad menu, and build sandbags around it. Once completing all of this, he could then have the ability to be Squad lead.

The only problem with this, many players could instantly be turned off by the game by how complex it seems to be. (or god forbid the game glitches, and doesn't let the player leave the range no matter what). No matter what, I personally think Squad needs something like this.

 

Edited by DefNotJake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@DefNotJake lol you're jumping between the argument it's hard to keep track of where you stand. But sure yeah, a tutorial (A to Z) as a prerequisite would be a leap of faith on the dev's part. They will have to outweigh the advantages over risks and decide for themselves if it's worth it. 

 

Personally I think it's worth it because:

 

- It will solidify new players with the basics they need to succeed in multiplayer.

- Reduce the questions the experienced players/SL's (usually) would have to answer and allow them to focus on the objectives.

- Enhance the gameplay for everyone due to the fact that basics have been passed by all players seeing it was a prerequisite to join multiplayer.

 

It's all about quality players VS quantity. 

 

Now the devs can just say fk it and make it a "trial by fire" and free-for-all as it currently is and hope for the best outcome...idk...it's up to them

 

o.O

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The narrative in this thread and others that Squad is some super complicated game that takes ages to learn and perfect is seriously laughable. I don't know why people continue to propagate this fable to cover up random peoples behavior.  Even a game like Team Fortress 2 has a much more complicated weapon/class paradigm and 8 year old children are quite proficient at it. Heck, the key mappings and objectives sit right in front of your face in the loading screen and they even dumbed it down further putting a spawn tab on the edge of the map.

 

You should be looking at other factors about why people do stuff that deviates from the constraints of "normal" gameplay instead of slapping "n00b" labels on them and then trying to "train" them which is just silly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

The narrative in this thread and others that Squad is some super complicated game that takes ages to learn and perfect is seriously laughable. I don't know why people continue to propagate this fable to cover up random peoples behavior.  Even a game like Team Fortress 2 has a much more complicated weapon/class paradigm and 8 year old children are quite proficient at it. Heck, the key mappings and objectives sit right in front of your face in the loading screen and they even dumbed it down further putting a spawn tab on the edge of the map.

 

You should be looking at other factors about why people do stuff that deviates from the constraints of "normal" gameplay instead of slapping "n00b" labels on them and then trying to "train" them which is just silly.

I don't think this game is difficult at all, but I do think having some type of tutorial in either the near or distant future wouldn't be a bad idea to reduce clueless players on the battlefield.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

The narrative in this thread and others that Squad is some super complicated game that takes ages to learn and perfect is seriously laughable

Who said Squad is complicated ?. It's as barebone/simple as it get's xD....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

?

 

You do understand that there are "NO" servers offered by the devs don't you? Nein, Non, Nyet, 没有... all the servers are what I consider private "Country Club" servers bought and paid for by individuals and groups and then allowed to run their operation in any way they see fit as long as it doesn't violate the OWI license agreement.

 

Just to reiterate for enhanced clarity: There are no Public Courses in Squad.

wrong word 'many'  'No' is the word... the only word and nothing else will suffice... but country club no... these are bought and paid by individuals and clans hard earned cash... complaining that there are rules applied and that they are a country club ... its kinda like saying I get the Gym for free but don't like it when the don't supply towels.... buy your own towel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Zylfrax791 Fine...I'll bite.

 

These "other factors" you're referring to may be:

 

- Players who picked up squad just to purposely troll. Often on free weekend.

- Players who genuinely don't understand the fundamentals of SQUAD's mechanics and SL's horribly BUT is willing to learn and better themselves.

 

Both of these points I made are basically the narrative of this thread and many others and the solution to this problem is a tutorial or basic training. As silly as it may sound to you, a solution such as the one I (and many many others) proposed will help eradicate both those issues and promote a more tactical and teamwork-oriented environment for everyone. That's the goal right?

 

I personally don't need a tutorial. SQUAD's learning curve is not that steep and the community is great. However if a good tutorial is released, whether optional or as a prerequisite for multiplayer access I will happily do it. It will give me (1000+ hrs player) an understanding of what is taught so when I join multiplayer I'll know that the basics were already covered by everyone that joined my squad. This will, in turn, allow me to focus on getting my squad on point and do work with less explaining. I don't think anyone can refute this statement.

 

;) 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess one of the main issues with this "how to Squad" is, that it is hard to preset the attitude towards the desired game style on the Squad servers. 
If you then mix it with the the attitude of some experienced Squad player who might be like: "Nah, won't play with noob lolwtf gg"- it will just amplify the less fun for everyone.

On free weekends or after those, just open squads with names like "4 New Players" or whatnot and guide them a bit. What's the big deal. If 10 people do that, you basically already have the chance of making the gamestyle understandable for 80 new guys. I am sure an experienced player can get over it not playing one or two rounds with his mates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Scum said:

I guess one of the main issues with this "how to Squad" is, that it is hard to preset the attitude towards the desired game style on the Squad servers. 
If you then mix it with the the attitude of some experienced Squad player who might be like: "Nah, won't play with noob lolwtf gg"- it will just amplify the less fun for everyone.

I disagree. It isn't hard at all and the whole point of the tutorial is to explain the core game mechanics which remains identical from one server to the next. The tutorial will not stop a troll that's hell-bent trolling, but the tutorial (if made as a prerequisite) WILL dissuade a significant amount away because they will find it a waste of time. Or at best will showcase (if made good) the game as it's intended to be played and their intentions will shift from trolling to actually be interested. At least this is my theory. 

3 hours ago, Scum said:

On free weekends or after those, just open squads with names like "4 New Players" or whatnot and guide them a bit. What's the big deal. If 10 people do that, you basically already have the chance of making the gamestyle understandable for 80 new guys. I am sure an experienced player can get over it not playing one or two rounds with his mates.

Again, you're now relying on experienced players to pick up the slack and step up to the plate. Why should experienced players have to deal with players they assume comprehend the game mechanics but later find out they actually don't? Like following a SL into a useless part of the map, not knowing how to drop the supplies (or drive all the way to the FOB Radio itself instead of supplying from the extremities of the zone) etc....

 

Don't get me wrong, I do it. I help as much as I can and am very patient with new people. I also give them props when they accomplish something I ask of them.

 

Bottom line, SQUAD is the lovechild of Battlefield and ARMA and is the grandson of PR.

BATTLEFIELD has a single player campaign meant to teach basics.

ARMAIII has a single player campaign meant to teach basics.

SQUAD can (and should) have a single player tutorial meant to teach basics. Not just a picture on loading screen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there is a big difference in squad leading and just understanding the basics..yes very frustrating when a guy cant even get into a vehicle as SL and I find myself saying to them either change kit, disconnect or give me the role... BUT knowing how to press the right button is a mile away from understanding the maps, fob placement, movement, communication between squad members, SLs and local, how to deal with the back seat Sls, supply mechanics and ultimately many of the troll SLs...that takes time and really only way to learn is on the job.. in multiplayer.. no tutorial is going to provide that... I will add however that many new players should not pick the SL role as a first stop as trying to do all that tends to end up with them hating on squad... unless they have support from a regular in the squad... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Difficult one. Devs need new players. This funds the project. Same time the whole concept of the game relies on the right type of players. 

I don't have many hours and am not a great SL, but I don't hide the fact, I'm learning, and I communicate well. my teams generally seem to appreciate this. We also generally contribute well to the team, so I wouldn't limit newer players from adopting the SL role. 

 

Also - From what ive seen so far it's a different game playing SL since you spend 30-50% of the time looking at the map, thinking, and communicating, many core FPS players don't want to do it. It's common you hear a vet squaddie telling his SL how to do the basics.. he doesn't want the job himself. and there is a lack of SLs. The case of a SL needing to leave a game also sometimes leads to the issue of someone else inheriting the role... no easy solution to that

 

+1 for basic training

+1 for a progression system that incentivises good performance

 

- new player can only take rifleman position (and he has to do a basic training first) 

 

- this unlocks other roles basic training, completion required to take that role

 

- after that, a ranking system for each role linked to in game performance points doing that specific job. Similar to real life military. E.g.

 

>private (has completed basic training)

>2nd lieutenant 

>lieutenant 

>sergeant 

>staff sergeant 

....etc.. 

 

>Eg. Medic, gains points for reviving, loses points for Poor death/revive ratio.

>Eg. AT, gains points for enemy vehicle hits, loses lots of points for friendly vehicle hits.

>Eg. SL gains/loses points for overall squad performance, capping/defending objectives. Winning/losing game. 

 

- too many negative points results in demotion/ or if a 'private' already necesitares re-doing the basic training. 

 

Again i maybe complicating things, (I tend to do that) but I think this would be great and would also provide a needed progression system..

 

as a SL I could also see who is good at what roles and delegate a bit. If I have a pro medic who wants to learn at AT I'm fine with that. Being a pro at one role probably indicates he's a good team player and will do the job.

 

*trolls/noobs who insist on team killing would forever be getting send back to boot camp. If you make that a 20-30 minute exercise.. they'll quickly piss off 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Wilbaaah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10.10.2017 at 5:04 AM, Zylfrax791 said:

First of all, your response post showed the fact that 1716 people were playing on the evening of 10/07/2017. Well, currently the daily peak is around 2600 and the daily average is closer to around 1200 players. And a simple look at the 2 year area chart in the graphic I posted below shows that Squad has been on a downward trend with numbers generally declining.

 

2E5FC75C3879442ED723CDCA8A236E1E34AE5A35

Where on this 2 year chart do you see a decline? Avg players in December 2015 (EA release) is pretty much the same as now. Also right now is before the release of V10. Last time we waited forever for a new patch was vehicles in V7 and optimisation in V8. I am pretty sure these patches came in Aug and Nov 2016. So at the months before. Jul and Oct 2016 only has around 600 players. Players now after a long wait is pretty much double of what is was back then.

 

Im really excided to see what modding a V10 will do to player numbers. Especially modding will bring so much new content. New maps, new factions and new flag layouts for current maps. Really think this will make game exciting. Currently it feels like all servers constantly play the same 5 may layouts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, embecmom said:

there is a big difference in squad leading and just understanding the basics ... BUT knowing how to press the right button is a mile away from understanding the maps, fob placement, movement, ... that takes time and really only way to learn is on the job.. in multiplayer.. no tutorial is going to provide that... I will add however that many new players should not pick the SL role as a first stop ... unless they have support from a regular in the squad... 

^ these things. absolutely, from my extremely limited experience in Squad so far.

 

did PR have a tutorial campaign/ranking system, like that which is requested/demanded?

did PR only allow fully competant and experienced (via tutorial) players from the start - or for that matter did the BF/ArmA tutorial campaigns ever actually make any real difference? I also think that "we need a testing regime" is simply a knee-jerk (albeit understandable) reaction to inexperienced peeps feeling up Squad, on the cheap, to see if they like it.

 

i honsetly cant recall anyone who played a single player version of a MP game purely to educate themselves about how the game actually works. it was only ever an option for passing time when no body else was around to play MP. some games have had the SP and MP games made by different companies and they looked and played very differently, which made SP for 'tutorial' purposes, pointless.

 

i've said it before; being given a licence/rank (via tutorial/time/ponts) does not mean a person has learned anything (or cares) - just look at the number of ph*#wits on the road - they have have "passed" too.

rote learning will never trump experience.

if some harder-core/serious servers require peeps to "show appropriate skill" before being let loose then fine, set rules and regulations but it should not be a basic Squad thing, it should be a per-server thing.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 3:45 PM, Zylfrax791 said:

The narrative in this thread and others that Squad is some super complicated game that takes ages to learn and perfect is seriously laughable. I don't know why people continue to propagate this fable to cover up random peoples behavior.  Even a game like Team Fortress 2 has a much more complicated weapon/class paradigm and 8 year old children are quite proficient at it. Heck, the key mappings and objectives sit right in front of your face in the loading screen and they even dumbed it down further putting a spawn tab on the edge of the map.

 

You should be looking at other factors about why people do stuff that deviates from the constraints of "normal" gameplay instead of slapping "n00b" labels on them and then trying to "train" them which is just silly.

don't think many said the game is difficult, but that those that just jump in and take an SL role and don't know which button does what obviously make it frustrating for those that have joined their squad because the flow of the game and the squad is hampered ...and with the rushing that goes on these days if your not all out of the main base in a flash it immediately puts most teams on the back foot.   

 

As you say the key mappings are on the loading screen, so it should not be difficult to learn,   this thread would probably not even have been started if people actually used the training camp or looked at the loading screen but you can lead a horse to water...  personally I am against any sort of training that says you need to do x before you can do y in multiplayer... the training camp already allows you to do mostly everything anyway ... and no matter what, even if you train and know which button to press it doesn't stop that person from being a ***.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While i kinda like the idea´s of earning points to get the kits. Im not sure if its the right path to take. I might be wrong but im not sure ppl want to spend money on a game where they cant try all the asserts from the get go. It will loose interesst quickly im afraid.

 

In my mind i still see the "veterans" as part of the problem. Who wants to play a game where they get screamed at for being new. And how are you supposed to learn anything if you keep getting kicked from squads just cuz the SL only wants his mates/clanmates.

Especially the hole kicking thing has got alot worse lately.  Iv numerous times been kicked, even tho i was the only medic doing the revives. You can only laugh when you see that the clanmate that needed the space then chooses marksman ;x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/12/2017 at 4:56 AM, Romby said:

2E5FC75C3879442ED723CDCA8A236E1E34AE5A35

Where on this 2 year chart do you see a decline? Avg players in December 2015 (EA release) is pretty much the same as now. Also right now is before the release of V10. Last time we waited forever for a new patch was vehicles in V7 and optimisation in V8. I am pretty sure these patches came in Aug and Nov 2016. So at the months before. Jul and Oct 2016 only has around 600 players. Players now after a long wait is pretty much double of what is was back then.

 

Im really excided to see what modding a V10 will do to player numbers. Especially modding will bring so much new content. New maps, new factions and new flag layouts for current maps. Really think this will make game exciting. Currently it feels like all servers constantly play the same 5 may layouts.

You're kidding right? The graph clearly shows a downward trend from May 2017 until now. The two bumps previously are free weekends and are meaningless. OP's assertion that there is a "massive influx of new players" is incorrect. Logically then, blaming new players that don't really exist for the decline in the quality of the game is ridiculous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

You're kidding right? The graph clearly shows a downward trend from May 2017 until now. The two bumps previously are free weekends and are meaningless. OP's assertion that there is a "massive influx of new players" is incorrect. Logically then, blaming new players that don't really exist for the decline in the quality of the game is ridiculous.

Hi, OP here...

You need to factor in something which you have missed.

The graph is showing total amount of players. It doesn't differentiate between veteran and new players. The veterans can be taking a break and being replaced by the newer influx of players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Mad Ani said:

Hi, OP here...

You need to factor in something which you have missed.

The graph is showing total amount of players. It doesn't differentiate between veteran and new players. The veterans can be taking a break and being replaced by the newer influx of players.

If you go back and read my first response I indicated that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Zylfrax791 said:

If you go back and read my first response I indicated that.

Admittedly I stopped reading the walls of text ^_^

It is definitely noticeable with the lower caliber of players in the game. Lots more day 1 noobs are stepping up to be SL because the veterans aren't doing it or aren't playing as much. Evidently so during those free weekenders as it can be a stressful time and impossible to get a smooth round.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Mad Ani said:

Admittedly I stopped reading the walls of text ^_^

It is definitely noticeable with the lower caliber of players in the game. Lots more day 1 noobs are stepping up to be SL because the veterans aren't doing it or aren't playing as much. Evidently so during those free weekenders as it can be a stressful time and impossible to get a smooth round.

Yeah, but the free weekends are ancient history. You made the assertion that there is a "massive influx of new players" and they are ruining the game however the numbers don't support that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

You're kidding right? The graph clearly shows a downward trend from May 2017 until now. The two bumps previously are free weekends and are meaningless. OP's assertion that there is a "massive influx of new players" is incorrect. Logically then, blaming new players that don't really exist for the decline in the quality of the game is ridiculous.

My experience in the Oceanic region is, there is a Squad lull at the moment, where a lot of veterans are having a break, playing other games and waiting for an update, or primarily focusing on ISKT and other competitive events like scrims and not playing pub matches.

A lot of new names I have never seen before, until about a month ago have started populating OCE servers, which I assume came from the 2 week humble bundle sale. Our player count in OCE is around the same as a couple months ago, but there is clearly less veteran players currently playing in our region and new players have taken their place. I would assume this is happening across all regions, not just OCE.



 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Zylfrax791 said:

Yeah, but the free weekends are ancient history. You made the assertion that there is a "massive influx of new players" and they are ruining the game however the numbers don't support that.

Again the numbers don't show who is veteran and who is noob. The numbers cannot support your dispute regarding my claim about influx of noobs. The only numbers to show that are to see how many people now own SQUAD on steam.

Just yesterday in 1 of my servers, there was a German guy 16 hours in game and made a squad with his friends. He wanted to give SL to me, I said no it's fine, let him learn it. I gave him guidance because I could see he was struggling.

Anyway I made a video a couple of days ago to cover this...

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/181718000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Dubs said:

My experience in the Oceanic region is, there is a Squad lull at the moment, where a lot of veterans are having a break, playing other games and waiting for an update, or primarily focusing on ISKT and other competitive events like scrims and not playing pub matches.

A lot of new names I have never seen before, until about a month ago have started populating OCE servers, which I assume came from the 2 week humble bundle sale. Our player count in OCE is around the same as a couple months ago, but there is clearly less veteran players currently playing in our region and new players have taken their place. I would assume this is happening across all regions, not just OCE.



 

Same on EU servers, lots of names we've not seen before. We get to know our regulars and in actual fact I said this the other day on discord... I don't know any of the SL's on my team. Checked their hours, all of them were new.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Mad Ani said:

Same on EU servers, lots of names we've not seen before. We get to know our regulars and in actual fact I said this the other day on discord... I don't know any of the SL's on my team. Checked their hours, all of them were new.

Regardless if its veterans playing less and a n00bs buying the game the downward trend of the statistics don't lie. More people show up on a Friday night at my kids H.S. football game than play Squad in the entire world and I'm hoping that will change for the better. As it stands now when I wake up early on the west coast USA there is basically only two servers to play on so lately I'm playing on the Russian Northeum server with its higher ping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Regardless if its veterans playing less and a n00bs buying the game the downward trend of the statistics don't lie. More people show up on a Friday night at my kids H.S. football game than play Squad in the entire world and I'm hoping that will change for the better. As it stands now when I wake up early on the west coast USA there is basically only two servers to play on so lately I'm playing on the Russian Northeum server with its higher ping.

Need an account on here to see the historical numbers...

http://steamspy.com/app/393380

All we're pointing out here is there is definitely a pattern. A very noticeable change in the caliber of players since a good couple of months. Also there was a Humble Bundle sale not long ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×