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Mad Ani

Quality of players during sales and the game being ruined

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@LugNut Which is why I think Squad should have a dynamic tutorial or "Getting Started" in the firing range map. It's one thing to give access to all guns for practice but it will be a whole other ball game if SQUAD actually walked these new players by the hand and showed them (with AI) how to place Rally points, FOBS, HABS, Emplacements, Fortifications, Burn enemy rallies, do supply runs, etc.... Just run them through every important aspect of the game before they head multiplayer. 

 

That way when these noobs decide to skip such important tutorial and mess things up on multiplayer we can just tell them to "Go get started".

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3 hours ago, Major Trouble said:

Let's check out that list. ......

R6S - finished

BF1 - finished

ArmA - finished

CSGO - finished

RS2 - finished

Squad - Alpha

 

I suggest you're not suited to early access. Come back once Squad is finished for a fairer judgment. 

I'm just stating why the game isn't more popular than it could be.

 

 

5 hours ago, CptDirty said:

 

Bye

good response

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Guys, its the hole between Patches. Every Day Squad Players need new toys to come back and then play every day and good squads will come back again. 

 

 

See it for myself... I love Squadleading, i love Squad. Everybody knows it, but atm the air is out. Stay a little little more patient, play something different for the mix. Come back, all good.

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Creating a Squad Leader tutorial would be great ("Click here, now click here."), but that requires plenty of programming. Instead, they could simply force players to watch an in-game video tutorial.

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4 hours ago, CptDirty said:

@LugNut Which is why I think Squad should have a dynamic tutorial or "Getting Started" in the firing range map. It's one thing to give access to all guns for practice but it will be a whole other ball game if SQUAD actually walked these new players by the hand and showed them (with AI) how to place Rally points, FOBS, HABS, Emplacements, Fortifications, Burn enemy rallies, do supply runs, etc.... Just run them through every important aspect of the game before they head multiplayer. 

 

That way when these noobs decide to skip such important tutorial and mess things up on multiplayer we can just tell them to "Go get started".

Exactly! I mentioned this in a post before as well. I would even suggest it being required before allowed in Multiplayer: "If gameplay hours = (0), then force tutorial"; disable multiplayer option until completed. Include areas "know your enemy" zones with faction and uniform for PID. There's a difference between helping and enabling negligence. 

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29 minutes ago, PROTOCOL said:

Exactly! I mentioned this in a post before as well. I would even suggest it being required before allowed in Multiplayer: "If gameplay hours = (0), then force tutorial"; disable multiplayer option until completed. Include areas "know your enemy" zones with faction and uniform for PID. There's a difference between helping and enabling negligence. 

+1 

 

but also 

 

-1

 

There's 2 sides to this. I mean there's gotta be a way to promote the use of a tutorial without forcing it as a requirement to play in multiplayer. It's all about balance. This is where the debate about ranking systems comes about which I know devs took a stand against over and over again. But the issue persists, and unfortunately veteran Squad players will have to roll the dice everytime they join a pub squad hope the SL knows what they're doing. 

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19 hours ago, XB0CT said:

I'm sorry but the current gameplay state of squad is poor. The gunplay doesn't feel satisfying at all, even compared to PR, and the movement system is a clunky mess worse than ARMA and the game is not well optimized. again, why spend 50 dollars on Squad when I could pick up R6S, BF1, ArmA, CSGO, RS2 or just play PR for free. 

Fair enough too, it's your opinion after all

...

however i don't think the state of gameplay is entirely a result of the game itself but also how peeps 'game' the game.

optimisation and new animation systems may help you come back

 

Rainbow Siege series = got bored with that format a decade ago.

Battlefield series = really?! BF2 was only just ok until they broke the networking, BF:BC was a bit of fun if you like choke-point-meat-grinders, BF3 was pretty lame actually. BF's have sunk into a deep dark pit of excrement not unlike a drop-dunny since 2.

ArmA series = played 2 and 3 a bit, 2 mostly for the awesome PvP mod it had ( called PvP-Scene, JO in ArmA = w00t!! ) - but too complicated and difficult for most peeps to get into.

CSGO = got bored with this format after playing CS a few times (literally)

Rising Storm = looks great, some fantastic looking effects n stuff - but can we please leave WW1, WW2 and Vietanm behind and move on - not going to be playing this either.

Project Reality = using the BF2 engine, so not playing that either.

 

at the end of the day it's Your $50 so spend how you wish. ;)

 

 

Edited by LaughingJack

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1 hour ago, CptDirty said:

There's 2 sides to this. I mean there's gotta be a way to promote the use of a tutorial without forcing it as a requirement to play in multiplayer.

Yeah, I usually take the same position, but given the number of times I've heard "what button to get in vehicle" or "what button to change fire mode" is ridiculous. Some don't even attempt the bare minimum, like checking keybinds. 

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Squad developers take their time and fine tune everything making sure it's working perfectly the first time, before they release it. They do not rush through things and slap shit content together and release a half ass made game ! I would much rather have them take their time instead of trying to rush through deadlines.

 

 

 

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On 10/7/2017 at 8:05 AM, Mad Ani said:

Hey guys,

I have over 2K hours in the game now, witnessed previous sales on Steam and Humble Bundle discounts. It brings in a massive influx of newer players. We spend time teaching them the basics and hope they stick around for the game to progress and increase the playerbase.

It's becoming more noticeable about the quality of the game diminishing in the recent months. I'm not talking about bugs, they come and go with hotfixes. Here's a list of problem experienced and I asked around other clans/servers about they are seeing too...


Problems:

1/ Regulars don't want to Squad Lead, new guys then have to step up. Sometimes it's their 1st or 2nd game.

2/ Team Killing - accidents happen. However for server admins it would be a lot easier to see which weapon is doing the TKing.
3/ Main base camping - some maps have flags so damn close to the main bases, it's impossible to ask people to stop base raping. Yet some of these maps are huge and actually have a LOT of play space behind the main bases.


Suggestions:

1/ Introduce a rank system, at least 50 hours in the game unlocks a rank which in turn allows that player to be a squad leader.
2/ Show the admin either pistol/rifle/nade/RPG/IED/Mine/Mortar/Emplacement/Vehicle. This will help us very quickly to understand who's more than likely intentionally TKing. Also have the safe zone near main base slightly bigger and not allow people to put IEDs on vehicles in main base or the possibility of anyone firing from within the safe zone/main bases. This will stop people TKing and destroying all of their own vehicles inside their main base.
3/ Move main bases further away from the 1st flags please. Stop the mines on the doorsteps of main bases too. Some maps have uneven terrain which almost forces people to use the roads just outside the main base, this is easy target.

Let me preface this by saying that I like the actual game Squad itself. The core game mechanic combines several key elements into an innovative package that is both realistic and easy enough for even a young child to understand. Plus I think the developers are both sincere in their creative endeavors and mostly transparent to us; the paying customers of an Early Access Alpha game and I do look forward to a finished packaged product that I'm confident will have nearly everything that was promised from the beginning.

 

 

 

That said, Mad Ani you're right about two separate things. Squad as an entity is being ruined plus less people are playing it. However, the causal factors you cite for these ongoing events are completely incorrect. I will tell you why I think that and logically prove it to you with your own subsequent post backed up with data from external sources.

 

 

 

So yeah, if I'm to understand correctly you solely place the blame the game being "ruined" by a "massive influx of newer players" and their inability to sqaud lead plus their excessive team killing and base raping? Yup... that sounds like the point you made. Interesting, yet a fataly flawed contridiction when you consider the facts.

 

 

 

First of all, your response post showed the fact that 1716 people were playing on the evening of 10/07/2017. Well, currently the daily peak is around 2600 and the daily average is closer to around 1200 players. And a simple look at the 2 year area chart in the graphic I posted below shows that Squad has been on a downward trend with numbers generally declining. Needless to say this data does not indicate a "massive influx of newer players" at all now does it? No it doesn't. There was a big bump on a free weekend and after a few patches caused bumps but in fact, the data shows that most likely not only are less veterans playing but new sales of Squad are down as well. Interestingly enough, a quick count of the available licensed servers shows around approximately 250 completely empty servers at $100 a month equaling $25,000 of wasted money simply doing nothing but enriching server hosts.

 

 

 

So now that I've negated your main causal factor with easily verifiable data from external sources your righteously correct main point still exists however. The gameplay of Squad has been "ruined" so to speak using your own words. I personally prefer the term "corrupted" but its a question of semantics really. Of course this brings me to the honest truth of the matter that everyone is carefully dancing around and is too afraid to mention "yest ye upset the apple cart". Well, you see I don't really care to be superficial like that and I instead prefer to call it like I see it and be perfectly candid.

 

 

 

You see Mad Ani, there are new players buying Squad every day. I guarantee it. That's the problem though. They probably play it for a few hours and get completely turned off just like all my teen sons friends were. Turned off just like veteran players such as yourself are turned off. Then they most likey just get a refund from Steam is the difference though. You see most new younger people just want to start up a game and play it just like they would CS:GO or Insurgency for example. They don't want to hunt down random web addresses or discord pages to find some cryptic rules set and then afterwards they certainly don't want to deal with a bunch of clan cronyism and ghosting combined with abusive power tripping moderators & administrators either.

 

 

 

But of course that's what its come to though hasn't it? I mean it seems to me like everyone from the "original" community got what they wanted right? And that would be a completely closed cultish game consisting of a tightly knit OG community that wants to stay within the confines of their own circles and cliques right? You see, Mad Ani my point is by the nature of the design Squad doesn't want or even welcome new players. In fact, they are mostly discouraged.

 

 

 

 

You might find that observation a bit blocky and brutish however proof that this inevitably was closely cultivated can be found in the basic structure of the multiplayer dynamic which was created and nutured by not providing officially hosted servers bought & paid for and moderated by Offworld running a vanilla version of the Squad with built in rules. Furthermore, the creation and approval of a supplemental rule set for each particular server in reaction to stifle each and every new feature added to the game could be considered a natural evolution as well. Basically at this point every single server should be on the "Custom Servers" lobby.

 

 

My personal observation is that you simply can't fix things that don't want to be fixed. New players aren't the problem, instead they are the solution.

 

2E5FC75C3879442ED723CDCA8A236E1E34AE5A35

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I'm sorry but i'll have to break it to you, this is the nature of these type of games. 

Public will never ever be up to a specified standard that can be considered somewhat acceptable on how Squad is supposed to be played, minus the trolling. For Squad to work it requires a common grounds which is the will to play the game as it ought to be. Pub has a variety of players though, those who want to play it as it ought to be, the casual Joe and the dickheads uttering non sense and shooting their guns to give away positions and blocking doorways etc.... 

Those who want to play the game properly will always look for a clan that meets their needs, which leaves the average joe's and trolls in the pub pit for a large part.  

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what zylfrax said....

 

although whilst I see the playing statistics it does not completely show whether they are veterans or new players... there could be an influx of a new buyers then a drop off.. I think what it does show is that the veteran players are beginning to drop off.  

 

and I will defend Ani (holy shit!) in that there is more and more inexperienced players coming to the servers it is clear in the way they play the game and don't play by the 'rules' ..but we should welcome them not discourage them.. if the veterans want the game to mature we need new players ... I guess it feels like its 'your game' because many have invested so much time in it and as the baby grows up it loses a bit of its innocence.    

 

I for one wanted a milsim style game, with communication and teamplay... we got that, perhaps we are a little fatigued with it now as those dreaded new players wont play ball... but with probably 25 playable servers in Europe we don't have the luxury of turning off noobs...

 

 

 

 

Edited by embecmom

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I enjoy Squad. I played it for 300 hours or so w/o being in any community/clan. I got a bit fed up with it and played a few weeks other games. Then after a while it just comes back again, where you want to see if you can play tactical and succeed or if not. Then its fun again with all its (mostly) coordinated maneuvers.

 

I am not bothered by missing content of the game. I mean there are certain milestones that are more than refreshing (maps, vehicles,  classes), but I didn’t mind playing it w/o vehicles. It’s ofc nice to receive new content and not have to pay for yet another DLC.

 

If new people come in floods, it may disrupt the “usual” flow of gameplay in Squad, but all in all it’s not only the few of the new ones that have issues grasping the nature of this particular game. I feel its also when regulars just are pre-bothered by it and don’t even consider some support to those that are interested in getting to know the mechanics and ropes.

Last sale weekend I pretty much only had new guys in my squad and noticed, that I was in that moment the holder of their decission if they even would consider spending money for the game. I let them in to all thr basic things (meaning of Rallies, FOBs, active objectives and value of certain actions) and many times I noticed this “woah, ok now I get it” effect from people. But of course uf you already ditch your head in the sand, one will end up with poor quality rounds (not talking about losing or winning the round) and new people that just get a falsly corrupted image of the game and player base. 

Things like this just require at least a decent amount of veterans pointing new players the way on Squad servers. 

For sure you have a hand full of unteachables... but that that can be sorted with warnings and kicks. 

 

Like I said, not only with Squad, if you find it valueable to take the time to complaint about why you are not playing it since so and so long and how you are not going to touch it until unicorns and elves are implemented, fine. Then just leave it be and write it in poem style next time ;)

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12 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

You see most new younger people just want to start up a game and play it just like they would CS:GO or Insurgency for example. They don't want to hunt down random web addresses or discord pages to find some cryptic rules set and then afterwards they certainly don't want to deal with a bunch of clan cronyism and ghosting combined with abusive power tripping moderators & administrators either.

 

2

I'm not sure where you play, but on the US public servers I normally play on, there is little to none of the "cryptic rule sets" that you speak of. I see on Desmos servers, there's no rushing, that's the extent of it. On other servers, you can still play any way you'd like. I see admins giving idiots the boot from time to time, for the most part, I see the majority of players and admins being pretty welcoming to new players if they're making an effort. 

 

I think many people try the game and give it up because, they don't like the graphics, walking simulator moments, relatively slow movement, weapon handling, like to play as a lone wolf sniper, don't like dying over and over since it's hard to figure out what is going on without a defined front line, lots of sway, not much stamina, can't tell friend from foe, can't see them to begin with, and runnning alone into a compound of enemy to shoot it out is a losing strategy. 

 

I'm not a blind fanboi of Squad, there's a lot of things that I like, but there's also a lot of things that can and hopefully be improved. I am in full agreement with you though that the game design should define which types of gameplay are rewarding and not arbitrary rules like "no rushing" 

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Squad will be flooded with old & new players when it's closer to release, a lot of people are taking breaks and waiting for new content because they have been playing the game way before early access !

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42 minutes ago, Devastation said:

Squad will be flooded with old & new players when it's closer to release, a lot of people are taking breaks and waiting for new content because they have been playing the game way before early access !

I believe that's a very optimistic thought, but not sure it's based in reality.

 

Much the same was stated by some that revere SQUAD before vehicles were implemented, sadly it was merely wishful thinking.

 

I tend to agree with Zylfrax's observations...

 

Being one of those that was playing the game before it came to Steam, I'd say that some in the "original" community have blinders on. They're die-hard supporters (nothing wrong with that at all) and have pretty much gotten what they wanted, a very niche game that appeals mostly to a small group of gamers.

 

Some (like myself) were hoping for a more dynamic experience that went far beyond PR's limitations on the Refractor Engine.  Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case thus far.

 

The implementation of mods might help to draw some back to the game, as could further refining development of base game mechanics nearing release. Then again, the (daily) player base could also potentially shrink even more once games like PS, HLL and ECS 85 see public release.  Who knows, it's a waiting game to see how SQUAD unfolds as it nears release state, and what (if any) affect other upcoming games have on the player base.

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experienced squad leaders should take up the slack and do the work which evolves into a win.

 

ie

  • Cap the back flags and block the rush instead of being the rushers and then demanding answers when the inexperienced squads can't hold your early flags.
  • build the fobs and control the herd.
  • control the critical vehicles such as logistics. if needed make some marks to increase the effectiveness of vehicles.
  • provide advice in a constructive and friendly way to build the team.

it is very easy to direct a responsive SL no matter what their experience. The key is to not be a d!ck about it.

it is very easy to open the map and watch to ensure squads have rally points and are moving in the right  direction....without being a d!ck about it.

 

If other SLs don't respond you might need to work harder or have them removed.

 

in conclusion. Open your map more to guide the team. don't be a d!ck.

Edited by suds
dodged the autosensor :)

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9 minutes ago, suds said:

 

  • Cap the back flags and block the rush instead of being the rushers and then demanding answers when the inexperienced squads can't hold your early flags.

11/10

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14 hours ago, suds said:

experienced squad leaders should take up the slack and do the work which evolves into a win.

 

ie

  • Cap the back flags and block the rush instead of being the rushers and then demanding answers when the inexperienced squads can't hold your early flags.
  • build the fobs and control the herd.
  • control the critical vehicles such as logistics. if needed make some marks to increase the effectiveness of vehicles.
  • provide advice in a constructive and friendly way to build the team.

it is very easy to direct a responsive SL no matter what their experience. The key is to not be a d!ck about it.

it is very easy to open the map and watch to ensure squads have rally points and are moving in the right  direction....without being a d!ck about it.

 

If other SLs don't respond you might need to work harder or have them removed.

 

in conclusion. Open your map more to guide the team. don't be a d!ck.

I like your sentiment but its not that simple at times... I actually do what you say.. I take control of a squad and we manage the back capping and let the noobs rush in and die.. the problem is that the game tends to end very quickly which makes it less enjoyable.

 

Last night I had to get some **** kicked out because he just built a fob in the middle of no where and took two vehicles (logi & BTR) and sat ont he fob ..not helping the rest of the team.. he was told to move but continued and was kicked... I was tkd for my troubles... whilst this does not happen that often, its trying to balance the guys that want to play the game but not under strict rules, those that want to milsim it a bit more and reducing the impact of those that just *** about.  

 

Its at that point admins need to step up quickly and remove SLs who don't want clearly help the team or are wasting tickets... whilst I don't agree with ranking I do think that the server should have the capability to block a player from taking an SL role once they have been removed from that position (for a period)... 

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I Agreed in alot of the points on here. And there is no quickfix.

 

But imo there is also a problem in the way some veterans threat New players. Instead of helping new players, they just whine and complain over them being there. Also lately the whole "kicking to make room for a clanmate/mate thing" in the squads have gotten worse. While i understand ppl want to play with their mates, it not rly helping new ppl to learn the ropes.
 

 

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On 10/9/2017 at 12:27 PM, CptDirty said:

@LugNut Which is why I think Squad should have a dynamic tutorial or "Getting Started" in the firing range map. It's one thing to give access to all guns for practice but it will be a whole other ball game if SQUAD actually walked these new players by the hand and showed them (with AI) how to place Rally points, FOBS, HABS, Emplacements, Fortifications, Burn enemy rallies, do supply runs, etc.... Just run them through every important aspect of the game before they head multiplayer. 

 

That way when these noobs decide to skip such important tutorial and mess things up on multiplayer we can just tell them to "Go get started".

I agree that we need a dynamic tutorial in the range, but lets not entirely blame it on OWI. When I was a noob, I knew the game was super hardcore, and I refused to jump in a game till I actually knew how s**t worked. If you are stupid enough to jump in a match instead of going to the range first or watching a tutorial, its your own fault for being a liability. Its common sense not to do that.

 

Besides, I don't think OWI should worry about new tutorials yet. Many community members have already created great tutorials on YT, I say we should let OWI work on more important things.

 

EDIT: I'm not as big of an a*****e as I seem, I will help someone who doesn't understand little things like "How do you zoom in on the BTR gun?". However, its unacceptable to willing choose Squad lead, and not know how to even access the menu . If that happens, someone in the squad just needs to politely ask the dude to give Squad lead to someone else.

Edited by DefNotJake

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1 hour ago, S^^ said:

I Agreed in alot of the points on here. And there is no quickfix.

 

But imo there is also a problem in the way some veterans threat New players. Instead of helping new players, they just whine and complain over them being there. Also lately the whole "kicking to make room for a clanmate/mate thing" in the squads have gotten worse. While i understand ppl want to play with their mates, it not rly helping new ppl to learn the ropes.
 

 

re clan.. true but if the server is a clan server and paid for by the clan then that clan has the right to want to play together a lot of people forget that many of these servers are not offered by the devs... however I do think clans stack too much and should try to even out with SLs ... RIP do a Friday night vs the world.. where they stack.. the rest of the time its pretty good.. my clan Opfor are part of a group ont he Squad Europe.de server, I have to admit the clans on there do tend to stack too much and thus makes it difficult for noobs..and of course less enjoyable for everyone tbh...

Edited by embecmom

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20 minutes ago, DefNotJake said:

 

EDIT: I'm not as big of an asshole as I seem, I will help someone who doesn't understand little things like "How do you zoom in on the BTR gun?". However, its unacceptable to willing choose Squad lead, and not know how to even access the menu . If that happens, someone in the squad just needs to politely ask the dude to give Squad lead to someone else.

dont see the difference here... you should know how to play the game but unless you have the menu open with the controls, as a noob trying to remember all the build/rally/fob/zoom/chat/radio.. can be daunting .. then having to listen to the BS from other squads.. on SL chat... and then those back seat SLs who love to type in chat that they know better even though they have no idea whats been said between SLs.. etc etc...you have to learn to be a bit ballsy and tell other SLs to stop / quiet back seat SLs / and manage your squad which at times is like herding cats.... I am always happy to get into a noob squad with a noob SL and help them... everyone has to start somewhere

Edited by embecmom

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1 hour ago, embecmom said:

re clan.. true but if the server is a clan server and paid for by the clan then that clan has the right to want to play together a lot of people forget that many of these servers are not offered by the devs...

?

 

You do understand that there are "NO" servers offered by the devs don't you? Nein, Non, Nyet, 没有... all the servers are what I consider private "Country Club" servers bought and paid for by individuals and groups and then allowed to run their operation in any way they see fit as long as it doesn't violate the OWI license agreement.

 

Just to reiterate for enhanced clarity: There are no Public Courses in Squad.

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@DefNotJake but this is the entire discussion. How do we minimize the liability of new players who pick up important roles that don't play them right. I agree that there are great YT videos out there explaining the game (in theory) but having an actual tutorial that could be made a requirement would prove to be the best practice. This is also a great way to actually lose it on someone when they make a really really bad move. At that point (after passing basic qualifications tutorial) you have every right to give them crap.

 

It's like math class. You can sit and listen all course long but without actually solving problems yourself you wont ever get better.

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