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Mad Ani

Quality of players during sales and the game being ruined

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Hey guys,

I have over 2K hours in the game now, witnessed previous sales on Steam and Humble Bundle discounts. It brings in a massive influx of newer players. We spend time teaching them the basics and hope they stick around for the game to progress and increase the playerbase.

It's becoming more noticeable about the quality of the game diminishing in the recent months. I'm not talking about bugs, they come and go with hotfixes. Here's a list of problem experienced and I asked around other clans/servers about they are seeing too...


Problems:

1/ Regulars don't want to Squad Lead, new guys then have to step up. Sometimes it's their 1st or 2nd game.

2/ Team Killing - accidents happen. However for server admins it would be a lot easier to see which weapon is doing the TKing.
3/ Main base camping - some maps have flags so damn close to the main bases, it's impossible to ask people to stop base raping. Yet some of these maps are huge and actually have a LOT of play space behind the main bases.


Suggestions:

1/ Introduce a rank system, at least 50 hours in the game unlocks a rank which in turn allows that player to be a squad leader.
2/ Show the admin either pistol/rifle/nade/RPG/IED/Mine/Mortar/Emplacement/Vehicle. This will help us very quickly to understand who's more than likely intentionally TKing. Also have the safe zone near main base slightly bigger and not allow people to put IEDs on vehicles in main base or the possibility of anyone firing from within the safe zone/main bases. This will stop people TKing and destroying all of their own vehicles inside their main base.
3/ Move main bases further away from the 1st flags please. Stop the mines on the doorsteps of main bases too. Some maps have uneven terrain which almost forces people to use the roads just outside the main base, this is easy target.

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19 minutes ago, Mad Ani said:

1/ Introduce a rank system, at least 50 hours in the game unlocks a rank which in turn allows that player to be a squad leader.

19 minutes ago, Mad Ani said:

1/ Regulars don't want to Squad Lead, new guys then have to step up. Sometimes it's their 1st or 2nd game.

Here's a scenario:

Game starts, it's a free weekend or summer sale, and player populations are 2-5x what they usually are... mostly new guys on their first 10 hours. The regulars are fed up with the shitshow and decide to play in their own locked squads. The 12 regulars on the team are split into two already-full squads. What do the other 38 players on the team do, play squadless because none of them can create a squad because they haven't ranked up that much yet? :)

 

I know where you're coming from, but it's not feasible in a realistic sense. If the daily squad players were 10-20x what they currently are, then the noobie influx wouldn't hurt as much and you'd probably be able to consider a system as defined in #1... but as of now it has a much larger potential to hurt gameplay on servers due to new players not being even able to join/create a squad because the regulars either aren't present or have grouped up with their clan/friends. 

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we could all hide in the custom servers

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There's only 1 page of servers which are actually full or near to full.

 

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This is the numbers playing SQUAD tonight on a Saturday evening. This isn't normal.

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2 hours ago, Mad Ani said:

There's only 1 page of servers which are actually full or near to full.

 

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This is the numbers playing SQUAD tonight on a Saturday evening. This isn't normal.

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theres a content drought, people are waiting for V10 and are bored of the game in its current state.

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7 hours ago, Mad Ani said:

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This is the numbers playing SQUAD tonight on a Saturday evening. This isn't normal.

Actually, it's completely normal

http://steamcharts.com/app/393380#3m

 

It is exactly in-line with what we've seen for the last 2 years. 

4 hours ago, XB0CT said:

theres a content drought, people are waiting for V10 and are bored of the game in its current state.

I don't understand this mentality... when new shiny things stop coming, people get bored and leave? So the devs have to keep updating the game until the end of time if they wish to retain players? I guess that "final release" day should never come then :|

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34 minutes ago, Psyrus said:

I don't understand this mentality... when new shiny things stop coming, people get bored and leave? So the devs have to keep updating the game until the end of time if they wish to retain players?

 

The core community is pretty committed to the game, most with well over 1000+ hrs. Alot of people were expecting the animation update with v9 due to initial hype. Then the realization that it would be in v10. The saturation of hype vs deliverable of a mechanic that is very much needed has created a bit of v10 fatigue (3wk syndrome). People are really done with the jump crouch method... It would be interesting to see if the stats change any (long term), once the animation update is in. If the stats don't change, then maybe the player base has reached a plateau which I hope is not the case. 

 

The DEVS don't have an easy job and they've definitely created a great game. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Psyrus said:

 

 

It is exactly in-line with what we've seen for the last 2 years. 

I don't understand this mentality... when new shiny things stop coming, people get bored and leave? So the devs have to keep updating the game until the end of time if they wish to retain players? I guess that "final release" day should never come then :|

it's not new and shiny things, the game isn't developed enough, why would someone pick squad over a multitude of developed FPS games that are currently out? yes it may offer more to it's niche genre but there are still other choices in that same niche, why play squad when PR, battlefield and ARMA are available? All of these  have a **** ton of content and stuff to do. 

 

My personal qualms lay with the movement system, it's put me off playing and I haven't launched squad since May. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Psyrus said:

Actually, it's completely normal

http://steamcharts.com/app/393380#3m

 

It is exactly in-line with what we've seen for the last 2 years. 

I don't understand this mentality... when new shiny things stop coming, people get bored and leave? So the devs have to keep updating the game until the end of time if they wish to retain players? I guess that "final release" day should never come then :|

It is not whole truth. At least for me personally the thing what I wait is not '"content", but "CONTENT" in other words game play (including maps**, game modes, movement, spawn system, stance systems, penalties, etc. etc.) and optimization overhaul. Now most systems are still on early iteration. Personally I wouldn't give less the current stream of content updates, it doesn't matter to me, since the game play aspects are lacking and some major(ish) things have been so since too long time. There have been awfully lot more content creation than gameplay and QoL work done so far.

 

** ..And maps I mean the layouts and level design, not artwork and space. (Edit.)

Edited by WARti0k0ne -BG-

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3 hours ago, Psyrus said:

I don't understand this mentality... when new shiny things stop coming, people get bored and leave? So the devs have to keep updating the game until the end of time if they wish to retain players? I guess that "final release" day should never come then :|

Yeah people have a tendency to stop playing a game when they start finding it boring, which is perfectly reasonable. If they don't enjoy it then why should they stay? 

At the moment the variety in gameplay is extremely limited, which makes it hard for some players to find it interesting to play for months and months without new content showing up.

I'm sure the regular playerbase will grow ALOT as they keep adding content and mods.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Mad Ani said:

Hey guys,

I have over 2K hours in the game now, witnessed previous sales on Steam and Humble Bundle discounts. It brings in a massive influx of newer players. We spend time teaching them the basics and hope they stick around for the game to progress and increase the playerbase.

It's becoming more noticeable about the quality of the game diminishing in the recent months. I'm not talking about bugs, they come and go with hotfixes. Here's a list of problem experienced and I asked around other clans/servers about they are seeing too...


Problems:

1/ Regulars don't want to Squad Lead, new guys then have to step up. Sometimes it's their 1st or 2nd game.

2/ Team Killing - accidents happen. However for server admins it would be a lot easier to see which weapon is doing the TKing.
3/ Main base camping - some maps have flags so damn close to the main bases, it's impossible to ask people to stop base raping. Yet some of these maps are huge and actually have a LOT of play space behind the main bases.


Suggestions:

1/ Introduce a rank system, at least 50 hours in the game unlocks a rank which in turn allows that player to be a squad leader.
2/ Show the admin either pistol/rifle/nade/RPG/IED/Mine/Mortar/Emplacement/Vehicle. This will help us very quickly to understand who's more than likely intentionally TKing. Also have the safe zone near main base slightly bigger and not allow people to put IEDs on vehicles in main base or the possibility of anyone firing from within the safe zone/main bases. This will stop people TKing and destroying all of their own vehicles inside their main base.
3/ Move main bases further away from the 1st flags please. Stop the mines on the doorsteps of main bases too. Some maps have uneven terrain which almost forces people to use the roads just outside the main base, this is easy target.

1) Would solve the problem of newbies going SL, but not necessarily get those oldtimers to step up. So it would be possible this system would produce even fewer SLs. I see where you are coming from, but I'm not sure its a good solution.

2) Yeah, definitely useful and needed

3)I like the Idea to move them further away where it is possible, that would probably make life easier for Admins. I think however mines should remain a real threat to vehicles going out of main, especially where roads are the only useful route to battle. Taking this away would probably tinker with the balance as APCs and alike would nearly never have to worry about them because who uses main roads when there could be mines, right? The problem near main bases is most people think there should be safe, when they are not. This should remain a problem for them and not the other faction. Clear the roads or loose tickets - especially right now, where the most layouts where this is happening are those with a more asymmetric balance.

 

Edited by Rook

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Well...The way I see it is that players with hundreds and thousands of hours have a responsibility to take these newcomers and show them the ropes. Which is why I almost always SL and ask for mic checks. No one is actually expected to do this but considering how much I like SQUAD and where it's headed as well as the community here on the forums, I do my part in making it great experience as much as I can. 

 

If you're playing with people you already know, like clan members or wtv, then it's much easier to dominate any map using any faction with crazy tactics. However on the other hand if you're joining a pub server with random people there's no way of telling people's level of understanding the game which is why I SL and keep it simple for my own squad to know what they're doing. Once we take those first objectives and set the backup fobs then it builds some confidence in them and usually those people stay and listen.

 

TLDR:

 

If you have the hours then create a squad and focus on assigning them a single area of responsibility on the map that is strategically important in order to build their confidence in you. And take it from there. 

 

 

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On QFF servers we are always happy to help support and guide new players. However what is happening quite a lot at the moment is the puppies would rather go off and be a lone wolf for the kills. Or you have new SLs who don't really understand they game mechanics either which then puts pressure on the people who have more experience in the game.

 

im a very patient person which I have to be working with young children. Even I get to the point where I have to have a break cause others don't listen either within the squad or other SLs.

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I'm lucky  to have taken an 8 month break so I think the whole game is awesome at this point. I also see OP's viewpoint though as it isn't just a new thing to recently happen. Everytime we get a free weekend and get new players all the veteran squad leaders get frustrated and in turn frustrates new players because they aren't getting the "Squad" experience. Best thing we can do to mitigate it is to sift through the new players and try to guide them. This community is what we make it. 

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Maybe if veteran players could take a  like #name.vet  tag so to show experience  which would help.  To encourage new players.

 

Most of the time newbies  need assistance to improve the standard.  Just hoping the new will be on the ball is far and few, we need to expand the community not retard it for at the end of the day a small community will crumble away. So keep helping the new guys. (Yeah, I know ani your always helping.)

 

How about a Skin for helper in game. 1000hrs to set the apart DP (Dedicated Player ) armband, which you could turn on to signify your happy to assist.

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I agree.Many of the "vets" will leave the game until some big updates come and new players will replace them making the quality of public games really hard unless the server is full of clan members, but at that point it's not really a pub game.

 

I'm glad that the mod support is right around the corner but what we really need before that are LOTS of new flag overlays to keep the game fresh.

The current meta of the games are becoming really boring and i understand why people will stop playing the game atm.

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I wrote a post I a similar vain around new players not being interested in playing squad as intended and trolling/tking.. but I think it would be quite unfair that veteran players decide that we need a ranking system because noobs don't understand the game, like all of us they paid to play the game too..... if certain clans are against noobs then they should create their own server rules or just whitelist a server and don't let noobs on... Many of the 1000+ hour players didn't know squat about SLing when it was first launched, nor the maps or how the weapons reacted... its up to the veterans to help the new players (those that want to learn) granted its frustrating, but there are tools to remove players from a squad... .

 

there are also a few posts on gameplay around base camping and flag layout... the game is not working as intended if the clans or server owners have to create external rules to enable fair gameplay... its not the fault of the noobs if they decide base came because a flag is too close to main.. they will base camp no matter how close it is... but its the map layouts and gamemodes that are not working as intended. 

 

as for tking .. yes it would be useful to see if it was a mine/ied or grenade... would be easier to see if multiple tks were intentional .. 

 

 

 

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A server admin command to demoteplayerid would be good to remove the SLs that are new, don't know they became SL or simply don't have a mic. It's better than having to kick from server to remove a rogue SL.

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On 08/10/2017 at 2:05 AM, Mad Ani said:

1/ Regulars don't want to Squad Lead, new guys then have to step up. Sometimes it's their 1st or 2nd game.

2/ Team Killing - accidents happen. However for server admins it would be a lot easier to see which weapon is doing the TKing.
3/ Main base camping - some maps have flags so damn close to the main bas...some of these maps are huge and actually have a LOT of play space behind the main bases.


1/ Introduce a rank system, ...
2/ Show the admin either pistol/rif.... Also have the safe zone near main base slightly bigger and not allow peo.... This will stop people TKing and destroying all of their own vehicles inside their main base.  //Lolz!! didn't kno about this
3/ Move main bases further away from the 1st flags plea...

1/ same happened to me on my first game (got lumped with SL) - got lots o help from a regular and we blitzed the round!

2/ agreed

3/ you mean camping Main and shooting out? or camping near Main and ambushing those coming out? (i do notice vast amounts of space unused on some of these maps.)

...

1/ rank unlock would be fail, sorry :(

2a/ showing weapon should be a thing anyway - also lets us players see what we got hit with (re; fairness etc.)

2b/ plant IED's yes, but not detonate them. i thought Mains had a restrictive boundry for projectiles.

3/ yes, better map design.

 

*my idea for Main/X-base  protection is this: spherical boundry that culls all projectiles inbound and outgoing, culls all planted weapons inbound, culls all enemy players, those players in vehicles are also culled but the vehicles are not and have ownership change to other team.

 

 

17 hours ago, XB0CT said:

it's not new and shiny things, the game isn't developed enough, why would someone pick squad over a multitude of developed FPS games that are currently out? yes it may offer more to it's niche genre but there are still other choices in that same niche, why play squad when PR, battlefield and ARMA are available? All of these  have a **** ton of content and stuff to do. 

 

IMO:

yes the game is not yet finished and lacks some content, however...

- bet my bottom dollar the ones crying about "lack of content" (aka: shiny new things) are insecure, expectant turds that collapse into bawling heaps when they aren't showered with new content updates every week. get over yourselves and be content;) with what is available now.

- Because most are crap and Squad is not? (list some of the "multitude" pls.)

- PR and ArmA may be of like-type but ArmA is hardcore (mil-sim)and difficult to get into/use, and PR looks so horribly dated you would not bother (i'd rather go play JO again (if i could) as it looks better than PR). Battlefield?!, you surely must be joking! BF is a as bad as CoD now, complete joke of a game.

- Content does not equal Good; S**t-ton or not.

 

 

5 hours ago, Maamyyra said:

The current meta of the games are becoming really boring ...

3 hours ago, embecmom said:

there are also a few posts on gameplay around base camping and flag layout... the game is not working as intended if the clans or server owners have to create external rules to enable fair gameplay... its not the fault of the noobs if they decide base came because a flag is too close to main.. ... but its the map layouts and gamemodes that are not working as intended. 

these two are related to BF gameplay being the backbone of Squad (it's version of AAS) and that will not change as long as Squad is the spritual decendant of PR(BF) - not a critisism by any means, just how it is.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, LaughingJack said:

 

IMO:

yes the game is not yet finished and lacks some content, however...

- bet my bottom dollar the ones crying about "lack of content" (aka: shiny new things) are insecure, expectant turds that collapse into bawling heaps when they aren't showered with new content updates every week. get over yourselves and be content;) with what is available now.

- Because most are crap and Squad is not? (list some of the "multitude" pls.)

- PR and ArmA may be of like-type but ArmA is hardcore (mil-sim)and difficult to get into/use, and PR looks so horribly dated you would not bother (i'd rather go play JO again (if i could) as it looks better than PR). Battlefield?!, you surely must be joking! BF is a as bad as CoD now, complete joke of a game.

- Content does not equal Good; S**t-ton or not.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry but the current gameplay state of squad is poor. The gunplay doesn't feel satisfying at all, even compared to PR, and the movement system is a clunky mess worse than ARMA and the game is not well optimized. again, why spend 50 dollars on Squad when I could pick up R6S, BF1, ArmA, CSGO, RS2 or just play PR for free. 

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9 hours ago, XB0CT said:

I'm sorry but the current gameplay state of squad is poor. The gunplay doesn't feel satisfying at all, even compared to PR, and the movement system is a clunky mess worse than ARMA and the game is not well optimized. again, why spend 50 dollars on Squad when I could pick up R6S, BF1, ArmA, CSGO, RS2 or just play PR for free. 

 

Bye

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10 hours ago, XB0CT said:

I'm sorry but the current gameplay state of squad is poor. The gunplay doesn't feel satisfying at all, even compared to PR, and the movement system is a clunky mess worse than ARMA and the game is not well optimized. again, why spend 50 dollars on Squad when I could pick up R6S, BF1, ArmA, CSGO, RS2 or just play PR for free. 

Let's check out that list. ......

R6S - finished

BF1 - finished

ArmA - finished

CSGO - finished

RS2 - finished

Squad - Alpha

 

I suggest you're not suited to early access. Come back once Squad is finished for a fairer judgment. 

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I'm against ranking, but it would nice to see hours in game somehow, mouse over the players name in the squad menu for example.

 

I've been seeing the usual post sale newbs running about in game being idiots, but what I've also been seeing and I'm not sure if it's just me, or if it actually is new, are players who at first blush seem like they're experienced, they set up a Squad, assign roles, plot a strategy at the start of a round and then once it's underway, it becomes clear they don't have a clue. Fighting over caps that don't matter, don't know the difference between a rally and a FOB, things like that. So, these are players who are coming from a milsim side of things, like ARMA or PR, but don't know how to play Squad. 

 

I also see a lot of Squads form, it's obvious in the first 5 minutes the SL knows nothing and the experienced players abandon and start a new Squad. 

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