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Randall172

SPG techie should be equivalent to HAT

Would this be OP?  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. Would a more powerful SPG techie be a great addition

    • Yes
      20
    • No
      14
  2. 2. Would an Optic on the SPG be a great addition

    • Yes
      18
    • No
      5


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Mounted AT should be at the very least equivalent to the Heavy AT. one shotting any light - medium vehicles.

This should replace the Rocket Artillery's spot as the "prime vehicle" (with the CROWs, and 30mm). 

 

-currently having to 2-3 shot logi trucks is ridiculous.

-techies are too vulnerable to even go head to head against vehicles.

-there is generally only one techie per map

 

Edited by Randall172

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Wel you need to understand that SPG 9 is a recoilless gun, it fires HE or HEAT rounds. They work different then a tandem, have a different casing construction and lower explosive load. Eitherway, the balancing does not happen according actual armour property and damage specs.....
 

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23 minutes ago, -MG said:

Well you need to understand that SPG 9 is a recoilless gun, it fires HE or HEAT rounds. They work different then a tandem, have a different casing construction and lower explosive load. Eitherway, the balancing does not happen according actual armour property and damage specs.....
 

there are tandem varients PG-9VNT etc. but this post was about the balance or lack thereof, the insurgent faction doesn't have any vehicles with any bite, or protection.

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40 minutes ago, Randall172 said:

there are tandem varients PG-9VNT etc. but this post was about the balance or lack thereof, the insurgent faction doesn't have any vehicles with any bite, or protection.

You could vouch for it, but i doubt they'll put it in....since infantry has Tandem and mines and ied's.

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You're kind of not supposed to go toe to toe when using SPG techies unless your plan is a suicide mission or if you have LAT/HAT mounted ready to dismount on contact with an enemy vehicle to finish the job - aside from that, they're more maneuver based vehicles, shoot and scoot. The SPG is a lifesaver on Logar, especially when US park that Stryker on the Eastern hill which you can get some nice vantage points on the Western hills with the SPG. It's a low risk, high reward vehicle if used correctly.

The whole damage system is a placeholder, in the future we'll have a more advanced system involving a modular system, meaning different parts of vehicles will have varying armor types. This means, certain ammunition will damage certain parts of vehicles more, and certain ammunation will be needed to take down medium to heavy armor.

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TL;DR Version:

OWI don't need to buff anything anti-vehicle related. Instead, OWI should remove HAT and people need to L2P!

 

 

On 01/10/2017 at 5:26 PM, Randall172 said:

SPG techie should be equivalent to HAT

No. It shouldn't. HAT should be equivalent to techie. HAT is already overpowered.

 

First of all, yes, I am a vehicle guy. On Logar, for example, it is very often easier to play on Militia side on BRDM than on Stryker/Humvee. Why? Because of that overpowered HAT, it one shots anything and everything, which is just unbalanced.

 

If you have a good team you can easily counter U.S. CROWS Humvee or Stryker on Logar, for example, with your BRDM, MTLB and SPG. But you have to use it properly. HAT was made for people who lose vehicles 2 minutes after they get it. Go watch ISKT matches and see for yourself how lame HAT is on top of SPG, MTLB and BRDM, when everyone is sitting on TeamSpeak.

 

When you use any vehicle, you risk to lose ~10-28 tickets. So yeah, when I use 30-mm BTR which costs my team 28 tickets if I lose it, yeah, I expect end up 30-50 to 0 on that BTR, making enemy team to lose 100-300 tickets in a round. But I risk a lot, if I play stupid, I can easily get killed 3-4 times in a round, which will cost my team 100 tickets. That's not the case with a HAT. You risk only 1 ticket when you die and in 45 seconds you can be up and running. And the damage, I saw players do 100-200 ticket damage on maps like Logar, Al Basrah and others.

 

HAT should be nerfet down to SPG damages or removed completely, because it is just lame. If you lost your vehicles in a match or you don't know how to use them, you should be suffering and getting rekt really hard.

On 01/10/2017 at 5:26 PM, Randall172 said:

-currently having to 2-3 shot logi trucks is ridiculous.

It's always 2 SPG rockets per logi, even if you don't land them one right after another. SPG is stronger than RPG. And it is very easy to do. I do up to 200 ticket damage on vehicle maps with SPG. It's only about how good you are with vehicles. If you can't land 2 shots in Humvee/Logi - that's problem of your hands/brains, not the game. Game is fine in this regard. SPG already 3-shot Stryker/BTR and 2-shot Logi/Humvee, which is balanced and makes sense.

 

On 01/10/2017 at 5:26 PM, Randall172 said:

-techies are too vulnerable to even go head to head against vehicles.

As they should. You just don't suicide-rush enemy Stryker/CROWS-Humvee. If you do that, you just die. So fix your brains/hands and you're golden to destroy enemy vehicles using SPG/Techies.

 

On 01/10/2017 at 5:26 PM, Randall172 said:

-there is generally only one techie per map

You're talking about SPG, right? And that's fine. Maybe it would be a nice idea to add 1 more SPG on big maps. But it wouldn't change anything really. Generally people are very bad at Squad, so it wouldn't change a lot. They will still get raped by no-lifers on Stryker/CROWS-humvee/30mmBTR 80/0, because they are just bad at the game, not because US/RU vehicles are overpowered. Watch ISKT matches, a lot of times better team wins both rounds, of course, there are always stronger and weaker side, but still stronger team often win both rounds.

 

Game doesn't need this kind of balancing. What OWI should really do is to remove HAT, and 99% of Squad players need to l2p. I don't have problems dealing with enemy Strykers/CROWS-Humvee/14mm/30mm BTRs or any other vehicles(when I'm in infantry or on vehicles), because I understand how to play properly against them, so they don't bother me, and I understand how to destroy them in infantry without using HAT, and also on vehicles...

Edited by SHO-SHIN
inappropriate language removed

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Dude, i dont want to insult you but after reading your comment it feels like you just want to tell us that you are a great squad player and that the rest plays like shit...

 

Anyway, i would be happy if they added the optic for the spg

https://www.google.de/search?q=spg-9+optik&client=ms-android-samsung&prmd=imvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiXlve1ntHWAhVJJcAKHWDhAkMQ_AUICSgB&biw=360&bih=560#imgrc=jvC1CHiAj1fNLM:

 

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Yep, just needs optics and the addition of frag rounds for infantry, and maybe an RPK mounted on the hood for the passenger to use like in Project Reality. But even without this stuff you can still kick ass on maps like Al Basrah and Gorodok. If you're smart with it, its a nightmare for enemy armor and logistics.

Edited by fatalsushi

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There are going to be a lot more Instant kill weapons for armour, and when the new damage models come in everything will change.

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spg techie is already the most effective AT in game. Particularly in open maps.

No buff needed.

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I'd wait and see how localised vehicle damage works once they implement it, before balancing AT weapons. A scope on the SPG, and even RPG, would be nice though.

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I can't wait for localized damage, you should be able to knock out a logi with one rpg to it's drivetrain. Not that it should explode, but you should be able to make it inoperable with one solid hit to the engine/tranny. Give it an obvious damaged visual state, like flat front tires or popped hood, so if you don't want to finish it off and get it's tickets, you at least know it's dead. 

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19 hours ago, LugNut said:

I can't wait for localized damage, you should be able to knock out a logi with one rpg to it's drivetrain. Not that it should explode, but you should be able to make it inoperable with one solid hit to the engine/tranny. Give it an obvious damaged visual state, like flat front tires or popped hood, so if you don't want to finish it off and get it's tickets, you at least know it's dead. 

Since we started to off-topic.

 

There's a problem with disabling vehicles. Now, when I see I can kill people inside that logi, I do that and then leave that logi to stay there till the end of the round. It is especially effective when you kill people inside logi which is close to your flag, so it is easy to defend that logi. Very often enemy team can't use that logi till the end of the round. And I also often see how smart enough players will destroy their own logi as it was an enemy vehicle, so that logi can spawn on their main base, so they can at least use it. But that usually happens 20+ minutes after I kill people inside, so it is pretty much almost the end of the round.

 

It would be a disaster with localized damage system: I personally would disable all vehicles on the map except for heave vehicles like Strykers, that way enemy team would not be able to use vehicles almost at all. If OWI do it, then they need to add some commander and a supply box from the sky to repair vehicles, or an engineer class, so people can repair a vehicle. Because if they don't, all disabled vehicles are just as good as destroyed, but even worse, you need to destroy them yourself and then wait for it to spawn, so you'll need to do more work and you'll need to wait more in general.

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5 minutes ago, Skul said:

If OWI do it, then they need to add some commander and a supply box from the sky to repair vehicles, or an engineer class, so people can repair a vehicle.

I like the Idea of the engineer class to repair vs. supply from the sky. Would rather a recovery team have to work to regain the asset if it wasn't fully destroyed. This would add a nice dynamic to the meta if localized damage is enabled. 

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in black hawk down movie they blow up the damaged helicopter. I assume this is to prevent use of the gear inside and limit intel gathered.

 

It would be good if the ticket cost occurred when the vehicle was disabled. Perhaps recovery (RTB and repair) could re-instate that loss. 

This gives the option of destroying it so it can respawn OR encouraging heroic recovery which benefits the whole team.

 

It would be cool if the insurgency incendiary grenades could be used to destroy these disabled vehicles. Same animations + effects + kit = easy :D

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11 minutes ago, PROTOCOL said:

I like the Idea of the engineer class to repair vs. supply from the sky. Would rather a recovery team have to work to regain the asset if it wasn't fully destroyed. This would add a nice dynamic to the meta if localized damage is enabled. 

Yes ! It would be nice if an engineer could repair damaged vehicles by his own , and only with a logistics truck with him he could could repair vehicles fully / bring them back from a disabled state . 

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Its true that INS and Militia have mines, IEDs and HAT already.  Mines in particular can be devastating when used right (I'm sure we've all been on the receiving end of it -- especially on the Al Basrah Bridges).

 

However, I daresay this is only the primary tactic *because* of the lack of any serious mounted solution, at least in part.  Why bother spending all the time and effort placing a mine down (and to play the lottery for a kill), when you can mount up and go seeking the enemy?  Maybe for MLG style matches, this would open up too many options for irregular forces to take out vehicles, *maybe*, but for pub matches with lower levels of organisation a more powerful SPG is sorely needed.  Even then, a more beefy SPG is still incredibly vulnerable and can easily be countered with the appropriate tactics, no matter the style of play.

 

It seems they have balanced the SPG to be more effective then a normal RPG by simply flattening its ballistic trajectory -- I have no idea if this is realistic or not, but such a thing could be changed if the rocket was more powerful.

 

The way it is now is also jarring from an immersion point of view.

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3 hours ago, Skul said:

Since we started to off-topic.

 

There's a problem with disabling vehicles. Now, when I see I can kill people inside that logi, I do that and then leave that logi to stay there till the end of the round. It is especially effective when you kill people inside logi which is close to your flag, so it is easy to defend that logi. Very often enemy team can't use that logi till the end of the round. And I also often see how smart enough players will destroy their own logi as it was an enemy vehicle, so that logi can spawn on their main base, so they can at least use it. But that usually happens 20+ minutes after I kill people inside, so it is pretty much almost the end of the round.

 

It would be a disaster with localized damage system: I personally would disable all vehicles on the map except for heave vehicles like Strykers, that way enemy team would not be able to use vehicles almost at all. If OWI do it, then they need to add some commander and a supply box from the sky to repair vehicles, or an engineer class, so people can repair a vehicle. Because if they don't, all disabled vehicles are just as good as destroyed, but even worse, you need to destroy them yourself and then wait for it to spawn, so you'll need to do more work and you'll need to wait more in general.

True. But there are solutions. I fully expect an engineer class of some sort, one of their abilities would be to repair vehicles if not completely destroyed. You could also give damaged vehicles a cool down, where after X minutes, they can no longer be repaired and a replacement respawns at main.a

 

Getting back on topic, I think the SPG is fine with the RPG rockets it's supplied with, I think an optic would be boost enough, further enhancing it's ability to snipe and run against far stronger targets.  

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11 hours ago, Skul said:

Since we started to off-topic.

 

There's a problem with disabling vehicles. Now, when I see I can kill people inside that logi, I do that and then leave that logi to stay there till the end of the round. It is especially effective when you kill people inside logi which is close to your flag, so it is easy to defend that logi. Very often enemy team can't use that logi till the end of the round. And I also often see how smart enough players will destroy their own logi as it was an enemy vehicle, so that logi can spawn on their main base, so they can at least use it. But that usually happens 20+ minutes after I kill people inside, so it is pretty much almost the end of the round.

 

It would be a disaster with localized damage system: I personally would disable all vehicles on the map except for heave vehicles like Strykers, that way enemy team would not be able to use vehicles almost at all. If OWI do it, then they need to add some commander and a supply box from the sky to repair vehicles, or an engineer class, so people can repair a vehicle. Because if they don't, all disabled vehicles are just as good as destroyed, but even worse, you need to destroy them yourself and then wait for it to spawn, so you'll need to do more work and you'll need to wait more in general.

disabled vehicles would definitely come with in the field repair functionality. In PR it was very primitive, but logi trucks could armour pieces whose turrets and tracks were disabled. In general it worked pretty well, there were very rarely times where you could "capture" a disabled vehicle, the crew knew what the vehicle was worth and would die fighting rather than abandoning it, usually resulting it in being a better tactic to just blow the thing up. If a tank's track is disabled, and you have a HAT shot lined up, it's as good as dead. But if you don't take the shot, attempt to capture the vehicle, fail, and it gets repaired, then you've obviously made the wrong choice. 99% of the time people will not get greedy and take the tank kill. 

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6 hours ago, Axel said:

SPG should definitely one shit a truck. Optics would be cool. 

 

OCCUPANTS MUST WASH HANDS

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1 hour ago, Gatzby said:

OCCUPANTS MUST WASH HANDS

Imagine the damage from a multishit truck tho!! You could call it the Larry, a dumper truck

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