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Damage (bullets/explosions) should kill incapacitated players

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When a player is in incapacitated state:

 

If he gets shot or damaged by a nearby explosion - he should be killed.

 

+1 for reality and gameplay IMO.

 

 

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I agree. It makes no sense how if someone is downed they are now immune. You have to either sit there and wait  for the body to despawn or risk them waiting it out until a medic revives them if you don't.

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this sounds to me like "finishing off" or "dead-checking" incapacitated players.

AFAIK, not going to happen in vanilla Squad.

source:

http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/2202-insurgents-being-able-to-finish-off-downed-players/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-47044

On 1.7.2015 at 8:55 PM, SgtRoss said:

[...]

And that is correct, we will not allow "dead-checking" people.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, dor said:

The developer didn't write the reason..

 

He doesn't need to state a reason why, but quite obviously it isn't a decision based on impulse. Things like this have been discussed to death in various places years ago.

 

If that's their decision then it's something that doesn't fit into the grand scheme of things along with their vision of the game. That could be the default reason you can think of. After all, it's their game.

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2 hours ago, Thr34t said:

I agree. It makes no sense how if someone is downed they are now immune. You have to either sit there and wait  for the body to despawn or risk them waiting it out until a medic revives them if you don't.

Waiting for the body to despawn is all fine and dandy, but you could always wait for the death gargle(indicator enemy has given up) and move on.

42 minutes ago, dor said:

The developer didn't write the reason..

Here's the main reason why, which is a very solid reason why.

On 6/25/2015 at 1:03 PM, Z-trooper said:

Nice idea, but ultimately no.

 

There is little to no value to the medic kit then when you can just kill off players on the ground.

 

There will be very little reason to go and try to reclaim a room/area where you have downed squad mates since they will likely be dead by the time and you are only risking more lives/tickets to go there in vain.


Source : http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/2202-insurgents-being-able-to-finish-off-downed-players/?tab=comments#comment-43993

Other related threads to same topic
http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/2412-wounding-and-finishing-off-the-enemy/?tab=comments#comment-47873

http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/25467-can-downed-incapacitated-players-be-damaged/ 

This thread is not related to gameplay, but from a real life question regarding the same topic, which covers the realism side of things.
http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/16130-irl-question-shooting-injured-people/?tab=comments#comment-196303

 

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You could "dead-check" people in Project Reality, it didnt hurt the gameplay, nor was it used very often.

The value of the medic kit is still higher than in Squad, even with "dead-checking", so those arguments are somewhat strange to me.

I get the thought behind it, but if there are examples that it works, it is more a thing of how it is implemented.

 

If the devs say no, it is that way, just wanted to give an example, that it does work.

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1 hour ago, Elirah said:

You could "dead-check" people in Project Reality, it didnt hurt the gameplay, nor was it used very often.

The value of the medic kit is still higher than in Squad, even with "dead-checking", so those arguments are somewhat strange to me.

I get the thought behind it, but if there are examples that it works, it is more a thing of how it is implemented.

 

If the devs say no, it is that way, just wanted to give an example, that it does work.

Explain how that worked in PR please.

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As far as single infantry combat goes, technically you can dead-check people in PR. You need to deal massive amounts of damage to the corpses to make them dead. As infantry you are limited to using tons of grenades or C4-s or LATs/HATs, as explosive damage is the only thing that gets applied. And unless you are next to a friendly crate, said weapons are way too precious and limited to be wasted on securing kills. In extreme stalemates of competitive play you might see people use this mechanic to secure kills, as the revive-rates in well organized teams are incredibly high.

 

When it comes to vehicles, it's a different story. Tank shells, bombs, ATGMs, full auto grenade launchers can "kill" corpses. But direct hits of these weapons kill people straight away anyway, skipping the wounded state most of the time. Which is a nice way of making infantry fear heavy vehicles.

 

Allowing infantry to do the same for the sake of 'reality' would undermine the whole concept of the medic. Squad is already suffering from their reduced effectiveness (due to the lack of kit switching) since the more emphasis you put on respawning as opposed to revives, the less cohesive squads will get.

Edited by Aleon

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39 minutes ago, banOkay said:

Explain how that worked in PR please.

Finishing off a wounded person in PR, from what I can remember, was only doable with explosives. I remember often dropping grenades on groups of dead enemies, sometimes people would use C4 sticks but I never found it to be worth it. You couldn't just shoot them again and make them have to respawn.

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10 hours ago, Dubs said:

I understand the reason.

But medics will still be effective:

  • Many times players are downed when looking through the window.
    In that case the downed player won't be visible to the enemy (unless the wall is glitched and the body's legs are exposed) so the medic can revive.
  • Some times the downed players are on a high surface (rooftop or high hill) which provides cover when crouching/in-prone-position.

In an exposed surface, the enemy might try to "dead-check" but (another tactic might evolve which is: ) the squad-mates of the downed player could identify and kill him more easily.

A kind of evolution/adaptation that is similar to the reaction of the removal of name tags in PR - as written by "EA_SUCKS" here:

Quote

 

 in 2013 (I think) nametags were removed from PR, and, they even added night maps to make it worse...

 

people were screaming of the forum to change that, saying all sorts of things... and I was fighting against it, to leave it like that

 

people adapted, and became better players, I knew how to recognise enemy by all means: weapon sound fire, direction of where he was heading,, type of skin, tank/apc and all vehicles type of sounds. Also, checking the map. Squad is so "meh" compared to that

 

 

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if you keep some incapacitated players in your area of control you can get a few extra kills when someone comes to get them. it is pretty easy for one player to turn a 3 body pile into a 9 body pile with some creative movement.

 

no need to kill them, just remove any hope of rescue :)

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only advantage to this is that it MIGHT make people think about getting shot if they can be capped and not revived... IRL I'm guessing its a little harder to get close enough to kill off opponents as the attacker also has the threat of being killed... in a game this doesn't make sense for gameplay and of course having a medic role.

On ‎26‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 9:38 AM, dor said:

When a player is in incapacitated state:

 

If he gets shot or damaged by a nearby explosion - he should be killed.

 

+1 for reality and gameplay IMO.

 

 

 

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Too add favor in finishing off the players, 

as I have used multiple times and sure y'all had too..

Indicating how many infantries are on your body 30 seconds after you went down... This matter can bring up either to be tactical or just plain unrealistic....  How bout auto-muting dead players?? Sure it will be frowned upon most likely but hey doesn't hurt to discuss! 

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Squad is a great game for precisely what it is, a large-scale multiplayer shooter in a modernized war setting with realistic features and qualities.  I don't at any point remember the devs specifically calling this game a MilSim, therefore they are under no obligations at all to make the game as close to reality as they possibly can.  If they said they won't add the feature, then that is their decision.

 

Also, if realism is the main argument here, then I'd have to also bring in the fact that there'd have to be a form of mechanic to avoid reprimand for violating the Geneva Convention, which "dead-checking" does.  This has been the subject of real-world debates for years, because real troops do sometimes execute incapacitated enemies.  If you want to add that much realism to the game, penalties should then also be enforced for "dead-checking" if you are part of a uniformed government-sponsored force because, you know, +1 for reality. ;)

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