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SHO-SHIN

Page File and Squad

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Ok until very recently I didn't even know my rig had one or indeed what one was and what it did.

 

So I monitored it's use in Squad across a few maps and noticed I was using between 13GB and 17GB of page file when running Squad.

 

Checked my page file and it was set to 5GB.

So I allowed 2GB-20GB. (this is off a super fast M.2 with loads of room).

Excuse me not using MB but that's to much maths for me, but you convert to MB when making adjustments and setting the range of page file in windows etc.

 

Just wanted to understand, have I suffered all this time re my small page file? And learn a bit more about it in relation to Squad.

 

cheers

 

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Not sure what you mean by suffered. What difference have you found now you have increased the size of your page file? If I remember correctly I believe you have 16gb ram which is going to limit the need for a large page file.

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11 hours ago, Major Trouble said:

Not sure what you mean by suffered. What difference have you found now you have increased the size of your page file? If I remember correctly I believe you have 16gb ram which is going to limit the need for a large page file.

When I say suffered i'm talking about game performance, FPS or similar.

Squad for me uses between 9-11GB system RAM (I have 32GB), and 13-17GB of page file (at the same time). I only had 5GB page file.

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Having no page file, or to small, and up to 8gb ram may cause fps problems with stuttering etc but I doubt you would of had a problem with 32gb. 

My guess is you had your page file set to be managed by your OS so it would grow and shrink where needed. I really don't know how Squad manages map/asset data between rounds but my thoughts are the OS maybe storing it in the page file so during a gaming session it'll grow.

 

With 16gb ram myself and full texture loading on I am also using a similar 9-11gb. You can see why those with 8gb and below might be relient on their page file an hence have stuttering issues.

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Yes I dont think it's an issue, my concern was why I was using higher than I had allocated with a ton of normal system RAM available.

 

I guess some things from the system just use page file, so I made it bigger to allow for that.

 

cheers

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Did you have your page file on ssd? I hate the thought of all the paged writes using up cycles on my ssd memory so I move mine to hdd. As long as you have a decent about of ram and are not doing something like movie editing I don't see the point in creating undue wear. 

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It's not an official suggestion just my feelings on ssd usage. I probably won't use up my ssd cycles in the drives expected life time but I'd rather that than have the hassle of replacing a failing drive due to frequent writes.

 

If you set a page file size it reserves the drive space. So during page file usage it's the same portion of the drive being written to over and over. It's the same thing with browser caches and their frequent writes of small files. I move them off my expensive ssds. Call me paranoid but I think it helps prolong my ssd life.

Edited by Major Trouble

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Still have a OCZ Vertex III 120 GB in use as Sysdrive with page file currently in girlfriends Rig. Its 6 Years old and still  healthy , in these 6 Years i lost 2 HDDs, so yeah it come`s down to personal expirience i guess but for me HDD`s are way more sensible and i don`care much about my SSDs exept thier temperature XD.

Additional to the OCZ I use personaly (familie rigs included  casue i build them and maintain them)

2 x Samsung 850 & 830 series ,

2x Intel 540 series,

1x Curical MX 300 series,

2x Hynix SL308 series SSDs

 

Some off them explicit as  cache for a ZFS File system on PLEX/NAS Machienes.

Until now never had bad SMART values on a SSD :-)

 

@SHO-SHIN keep the setting to padefile administrated dynamic by Windows.

 

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16 hours ago, moppel said:

keep the setting to padefile administrated dynamic by Windows.

I am open to doing this, not sure why the value was 5GB when i checked?

 

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Page file isn't needed with your setup, but before you turn it off older programs can start misbehaving without one.  Page files where used when system's didn't have much ram. If your really want one make a ram drive and mount your page file to that.

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3 hours ago, Smee said:

Page file isn't needed with your setup, but before you turn it off older programs can start misbehaving without one.  Page files where used when system's didn't have much ram. If your really want one make a ram drive and mount your page file to that.

yes i am starting to understand this better now.

The bit i'm confused about is what I found with MSI Afterburner monitoring my page file.

 

'So I monitored it's use in Squad across a few maps and noticed I was using between 13GB and 17GB of page file when running Squad.

 

Checked my page file and it was set to 5GB.'

 

So, if my system doesn't need a page file (re my 32GB available RAM, 10GB being used by Squad) why is 13-17GB of page file being used?

I have discord, MSI Afterburner and maybe 1 tab of chrome open when I am playing Squad.

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4 hours ago, SHO-SHIN said:

The bit i'm confused about is what I found with MSI Afterburner monitoring my page file.

System controls how big your page file is by default. So if it needs to increase size of your page file, it does so.

4 hours ago, SHO-SHIN said:

'So I monitored it's use in Squad across a few maps and noticed I was using between 13GB and 17GB of page file when running Squad.

Checked my page file and it was set to 5GB.'

Screenshot? By default it set to be controlled by system. So if it was really set to be 5 GB manually, you'd have known it, because you should've set it by yourself. And considering you didn't know about it before, I doubt it was set to 5 GB, I think it was to set to be controlled by system.

 

4 hours ago, SHO-SHIN said:

So, if my system doesn't need a page file (re my 32GB available RAM, 10GB being used by Squad) why is 13-17GB of page file being used?

https://lifehacker.com/5426041/understanding-the-windows-pagefile-and-why-you-shouldnt-disable-it

Don't disable it. It will not increase speed or anything but will cause random crashes in different programs even when you have a lot of RAM left. Windows isn't meant to be used with page file disabled.

 

System doesn't unload stuff from RAM only when you're almost out it. It happens dynamically in real time. 

 

If you want to make things faster, get another SSD using another interface,like SATA, and set page file to be located only on your SATA SSD, when your system and Squad is located on M.2 SSD.

 

4 hours ago, SHO-SHIN said:

I have discord, MSI Afterburner and maybe 1 tab of chrome open when I am playing Squad.

That's fine. System loads up so many more things in order for these programs to work.

 

 

PS That's one of the reasons people have stutters and FPS drops down to 0(when system, Squad or page file are on HDD) - because of too small page file. It doesn't really matter if you have your system, Squad and page file on SSD, but for HDD it can be crucial. So if you're on HDD, you can manually set page file to 16-24 GB to your second HDD(if you have one) or to the first one(if you don't have a second HDD). If you want it to be as fast as possible, you can set it to the fastest rings, which are outter ones. Defragmenting HDD by name(O&O Defrag) also helps. Also make sure your page file isn't fragmented.

Edited by Skul

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I've got 32gb of ram to and it;s defaulted to  5gb so seems to be the systems spot.  i've got 2 x m.2 one for system and one for games. with backup ssd.  having a separate system game drive is always better in my experience. 

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17 hours ago, Skul said:

PS That's one of the reasons people have stutters and FPS drops down to 0(when system, Squad or page file are on HDD) - because of too small page file. It doesn't really matter if you have your system, Squad and page file on SSD, but for HDD it can be crucial. So if you're on HDD, you can manually set page file to 16-24 GB to your second HDD(if you have one) or to the first one(if you don't have a second HDD). If you want it to be as fast as possible, you can set it to the fastest rings, which are outter ones. Defragmenting HDD by name(O&O Defrag) also helps. Also make sure your page file isn't fragmented.

What you're describing is not the best fix for stuttering. Putting a page file on ssd would be better than hdd in term of reduced stuttering but they're still nowhere near as fast as having enough ram in the first place. Our 64bit systems can access far more ram than the old windows 4gb limits when page files helped out. Ram is the cure, page files are just bandages which never really get rid of the underlying problem. 

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15 hours ago, Smee said:

I've got 32gb of ram to and it;s defaulted to  5gb so seems to be the systems spot.  i've got 2 x m.2 one for system and one for games. with backup ssd.  having a separate system game drive is always better in my experience. 

Ah right that explains my 5GB page file when I checked then.

I'll look into getting a second M.2 or SSD for op system and page file then I think as i only run everything off 1 M.2 right now.

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cheaper option would be ssd. and if you have second m.2 slot might not run as fast.  go for an samsung evo pro they are rocking

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I have Samsung Evo 960 M.2 right now and second M.2 slot available so could do either, I think.

It's the ROG Maximus hero 9 Motherboard

  • Expansion Slots
    2 x PCIe 3.0/2.0 x16 
    1 x PCIe 3.0/2.0 x16 *1
    3 x PCIe 3.0/2.0 x1
  • Storage
    Intel® Z270 Chipset : 
    1 x M.2 Socket 3, with M key, type 2242/2260/2280 storage devices support (SATA & PCIE 3.0 x 4 mode)*2
    1 x M.2 Socket 3, with M key, type 2242/2260/2280/22110 storage devices support (PCIE 3.0 x 4 mode)*3
    6 x SATA 6Gb/s port(s)

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3 hours ago, Major Trouble said:

What you're describing is not the best fix for stuttering. Putting a page file on ssd would be better than hdd in term of reduced stuttering but they're still nowhere near as fast as having enough ram in the first place. Our 64bit systems can access far more ram than the old windows 4gb limits when page files helped out. Ram is the cure, page files are just bandages which never really get rid of the underlying problem. 

I said that it isn't relevant for people, who have their system, squad and page file on SSD and it is relevant only for people who have everything on HDD:

21 hours ago, Skul said:

That's one of the reasons people have stutters and FPS drops down to 0(when system, Squad or page file are on HDD) - because of too small page file. It doesn't really matter if you have your system, Squad and page file on SSD

And if you read what SHO-SHIN said, and knew how it works in general, you'd have known that page file is used even when there's 30 GB of free RAM left.

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/clinth/2013/10/16/tracking-page-file-reads-and-writes/

 

Download tracking program and see it for yourself. As SHO-SHIN mentioned earlier, he has what, 32 GB of RAM? And when he plays Squad only 9 GB of RAM is used, while 12-17 GB of page file is used. Meaning he has 21 GB(~70%) of free RAM left, while 12-17 GB of page file is in use.

 

Page file isn't used only when you're out of RAM. It is used used pretty much all the time.

Edited by Skul

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2 hours ago, Skul said:

Page file isn't used only when you're out of RAM. It is used used pretty much all the time.

That's correct but Windows won't page things 'in use' unless you don't have enough ram. It's the paging in/out on a slow drive that is one causes of stuttering. OS+Squad+chrome is using 9-11gb in sho-shin's configuration. As he has 32gb ram info is drawn 1st from there even if it might of been paged already.

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