Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Pvt. Lewis

Do you honestly think we will get machineguns? (M240 Pkm)?

Recommended Posts

Many have expressed great desire to see these weapons, especially considering the m240 is now more common in units than the m249. However the devs have always found a way to dodge around the answer. 

 

Do you believe they will put them in, honestly? And how would thy function? I believe Project Reality handled them well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Assifuah   

They're no light or easy weapons to operate. They're probably not in now because they would be considered even more "useless" than their lighter counterparts due to there being no bipods, or significant suppression.

 

Relax, when the time is right they'll mention them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nimbus   

Yes.

 

Hopefully well and with a balance between realism and usability (gameplay), harder to use in certain aspects than AR's (lmg's/saw's), but more effective if handled right. For this (deployable) bipods and weapon resting are almost a prerequisite, but when those are added, gpmg's will surely follow.

Heat management and quick change barrels would be a nice feature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think we will see GPMGs. Crew served weapons don't make sense in SQUAD's setup if the plan is to do them correctly meaning at the very least you need the Gunner and an AG at minimum, and if they just make the GPMG a single player operation then it'll just conflict purpose wise against the current LMGs. Also when it comes to movement it makes little sense to employ GPMGs. Everyone moves as a squad (no pun intended) with little to no platoon level management in game. No WSL, PL, or PSG. So you'd literally have the most random MG teams running around serving little purpose in terms of operational movement (at least movement as it pertains to SQUAD). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Fandango831 said:

I don't think we will see GPMGs. Crew served weapons don't make sense in SQUAD's setup if the plan is to do them correctly meaning at the very least you need the Gunner and an AG at minimum, and if they just make the GPMG a single player operation then it'll just conflict purpose wise against the current LMGs. Also when it comes to movement it makes little sense to employ GPMGs. Everyone moves as a squad (no pun intended) with little to no platoon level management in game. No WSL, PL, or PSG. So you'd literally have the most random MG teams running around serving little purpose in terms of operational movement (at least movement as it pertains to SQUAD). 

Having an Assistant Rifleman ect. is getting too close to being a simulator. I don't think it's too much of an issue not incorporating that aspect into Squad. At the very most it could be that having another friendly within 15 meters of you would be "helping" you carry the gun so you don't drain stamina as fast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MilosV   

Just please let me hip fire the m240 without going all over the place , it's possible irl , don't go "project reality" on it with the deviation bullshit :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NotBrad   

We more than likely will see them, but as has been mentioned these weapons can only be practically fired from the hip and from a supported stance. Imo we should not be able to aim down the sight unless we are in a supported stance, and you should have lower recoil while hip firing. In addition to that add ammo packs to the standard rifleman class that can only be used by GPMGs and LMGs. That way instead of having ammo bags for rifleman who can resupply themselves, suppressing fire would be delegated to the automatic riflemen and machine guns of the squad, further contributing to squad cohesion.

 

Edit:

also remove ads from the m249 when standing and give the same recoil benefit to hip fire. Leave the rpk-type weapons alone.

Edited by NotBrad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/26/2017 at 2:43 PM, Pvt. Lewis said:

Many have expressed great desire to see these weapons, especially considering the m240 is now more common in units than the m249. However the devs have always found a way to dodge around the answer. 

 

Do you believe they will put them in, honestly? And how would thy function? I believe Project Reality handled them well. 

 

Dude, you've been around these forms forever, and you've always posted threads that have simple answers. They're going to be added, it's not a question of if, it's a question of when. This has been generally known for a long time.

Edited by DoctorKamikaze

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rybec   
51 minutes ago, NotBrad said:

also remove ads from the m249 when standing and give the same recoil benefit to hip fire. Leave the rpk-type weapons alone.

For what purpose? The M249 is extremely easy to shoot standing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, NotBrad said:

Edit:

also remove ads from the m249 when standing and give the same recoil benefit to hip fire. Leave the rpk-type weapons alone.

Well being that I was an AR for multiple years you can definitely aim down your sights with a 249 and be accurate. Hell in some ways it was easier to shot in comparison to my M4 or even the Mk18 I used later (primarily due to weight : caliber ratios). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thonar   
On 26.8.2017 at 10:42 PM, Nimbus said:

Yes.

 

Hopefully well and with a balance between realism and usability (gameplay), harder to use in certain aspects than AR's (lmg's/saw's), but more effective if handled right. For this (deployable) bipods and weapon resting are almost a prerequisite, but when those are added, gpmg's will surely follow.

Heat management and quick change barrels would be a nice feature.

 

They'll have to fix small-caliber penetration to make GPMGs really useful.

Especially on forest-maps 5.56 vs 7.62 NATO makes a huge difference.

 

On 27.8.2017 at 1:54 PM, Fandango831 said:

I don't think we will see GPMGs. Crew served weapons don't make sense in SQUAD's setup if the plan is to do them correctly meaning at the very least you need the Gunner and an AG at minimum, and if they just make the GPMG a single player operation then it'll just conflict purpose wise against the current LMGs. Also when it comes to movement it makes little sense to employ GPMGs. Everyone moves as a squad (no pun intended) with little to no platoon level management in game. No WSL, PL, or PSG. So you'd literally have the most random MG teams running around serving little purpose in terms of operational movement (at least movement as it pertains to SQUAD). 

A GPMG isn't necessarily crew served or a platoon asset.

In the German armed forces it is and will remain a Squad weapon, in German Armoured Infantry Squads it isn't even crew served.

 

People tend to often look towards "Anglo-Saxon" (US/UK) ways of organizing platoons, while French, German, Chinese and Russian organizations are often times looking massively different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nimbus   
On 27-8-2017 at 3:06 PM, Catindabox said:

Having an Assistant Rifleman ect. is getting too close to being a simulator. I don't think it's too much of an issue not incorporating that aspect into Squad. At the very most it could be that having another friendly within 15 meters of you would be "helping" you carry the gun so you don't drain stamina as fast.

The majority of the time these are carried by the operator, so no shared load there. Ammo is a different matter, distribute a couple of belts across the squad (rifleman) and implement a 'resupply mg' like Red Orchestra had (key press, radial menu might work well too). Somewhat akin to the ammo bag drop suggested for rifleman/ammo bearer. Same could be done for spare barrels if that is in-line  with the faction's doctrine. Having a squad member close by might be seen as an assistant gunner (helping hand), speeding up reloads/barrel change. Can be a very nice addition towards immersion and teamwork. Not often seen in games. The earlier mentioned mag/bandage/smoke/frag sharing (not for used bandages of course...) is a great way to do this too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nimbus   
1 hour ago, Thonar said:

They'll have to fix small-caliber penetration to make GPMGs really useful.

Especially on forest-maps 5.56 vs 7.62 NATO makes a huge difference.

There should already be a difference between 5.56, 7.62 and .50 with regards to penetration, but if that's only for walls and such objects or vegetation too I don't know. Would be veery cool though, and complex I'd guess.

Yes, barrier penetration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Thonar said:

 

They'll have to fix small-caliber penetration to make GPMGs really useful.

Especially on forest-maps 5.56 vs 7.62 NATO makes a huge difference.

 

A GPMG isn't necessarily crew served or a platoon asset.

In the German armed forces it is and will remain a Squad weapon, in German Armoured Infantry Squads it isn't even crew served.

 

People tend to often look towards "Anglo-Saxon" (US/UK) ways of organizing platoons, while French, German, Chinese and Russian organizations are often times looking massively different.

I'm not disagreeing with your point that different nations employ GPMGs differently across the board. However my main point and adding what you pointed out is that in SQUADs current state it's something that has yet to be employed in how players work together and move. For the most part SQUAD doesn't remotely emulate any nations IRL use of equipment or units which to be fair is one of the attractive elements to SQUAD. Rather than forcing players to have to fall in line with specific means of organization like IRL armed forces SQUAD instead keeps it simple organizationally and keeps the kits more or less simple as well. I'd hate to see someone running around with a M240B/L pulling the rambo move when in reality that just isn't the case unless we're talking desperate actions in the field, but to your point it would make complete sense to see PKP and PKM being run by one operator or hell even MG3s normally in the field. 

 

The one suggestion I saw earlier, or maybe it was on a different thread was to allow for the use of the GPMG as a hipfire only weapon until mounted on either a tripod or bipod stabilized surface. Then you'd essentially get the MG (role) with a load out consisting of the MG itself, a portable tripod unit, three boxes of ammunition, and a fairly low stamina/recover rate in terms of movement. This would in my mind make up for some nations having a "crew" limiter but would still allow for technical independent operation of the MG platform. Now you'd have a singular MG running around who can create a stable firing platform, and maintain sustained fire for a decent period of time without going overboard for balance reasons, but also being respectfully limited in terms of movement speed and relative traverse. Obviously more thought would need to get tossed into this idea but overall I feel it would be the best way to tackle implementing GPMGs into SQUAD without going full bore ARMA and just trying to simulate every factions version of each role down to the slim details. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40mmrain   
1 hour ago, Fandango831 said:

I'm not disagreeing with your point that different nations employ GPMGs differently across the board. However my main point and adding what you pointed out is that in SQUADs current state it's something that has yet to be employed in how players work together and move. For the most part SQUAD doesn't remotely emulate any nations IRL use of equipment or units which to be fair is one of the attractive elements to SQUAD. Rather than forcing players to have to fall in line with specific means of organization like IRL armed forces SQUAD instead keeps it simple organizationally and keeps the kits more or less simple as well. I'd hate to see someone running around with a M240B/L pulling the rambo move when in reality that just isn't the case unless we're talking desperate actions in the field, but to your point it would make complete sense to see PKP and PKM being run by one operator or hell even MG3s normally in the field. 

 

The one suggestion I saw earlier, or maybe it was on a different thread was to allow for the use of the GPMG as a hipfire only weapon until mounted on either a tripod or bipod stabilized surface. Then you'd essentially get the MG (role) with a load out consisting of the MG itself, a portable tripod unit, three boxes of ammunition, and a fairly low stamina/recover rate in terms of movement. This would in my mind make up for some nations having a "crew" limiter but would still allow for technical independent operation of the MG platform. Now you'd have a singular MG running around who can create a stable firing platform, and maintain sustained fire for a decent period of time without going overboard for balance reasons, but also being respectfully limited in terms of movement speed and relative traverse. Obviously more thought would need to get tossed into this idea but overall I feel it would be the best way to tackle implementing GPMGs into SQUAD without going full bore ARMA and just trying to simulate every factions version of each role down to the slim details. 

 

 

I think what would be more likely is there will be an assistant gunner. You're right that the GPMG has little place in Squad right now but consider the following changes that could make it relevant

 

1) Server size is going to increase to 100 at the very least. With more infantry per side, more specialized teams become tactically relevant. There may even be platoon level of infantry organization in the future(?) which would mean a small MG team supporting a 2-3 squad sized attacking force would be efficient

2) The suppression effect is getting significantly changed to be more powerful. Right now suppression in Squad is a mere visual effect, however recent comments from the developers that I've seen seem to imply that they intend to implement some real penalties for being suppressed, and if I had to guess the caliber of weapon suppressing the enemy will be proportional to the penalty size.

3) Fireteam organization is a coming feature. Right now it's difficult to organize your squad into multiple elements, with fireteam designation it will be much easier to organize your squad into having a machine gun team as part of it.

4) Map size is going to get larger on average over time. Currently in Squad it's the case that an M249 with a magnifying optic would be sufficient for almost all engagement ranges but as more larger maps like Gorodok and Kohat Toi enter the fray the GPMG's longer reach will be relevant

 

Also I think subtle changes that might come in the future could make the GPMG more relevant to Squad. Changes such as weakening of rally points/FOBs and map objectives being bigger, which would make the game less about getting right on top of the enemy to actually defeat them. Or properly functioning optics, and body armour to make larger calibers more relevant.

 

I think with those changes we wouldnt need to have the GPMG kit have all of the assistant gunner's tools stuffed into the kit. A rifleman kit with a tripod, extra belts and a pair of binoculars to spot would do the job.

Edited by 40mmrain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NotBrad   
On 2017-08-28 at 6:29 AM, Fandango831 said:

Well being that I was an AR for multiple years you can definitely aim down your sights with a 249 and be accurate. Hell in some ways it was easier to shot in comparison to my M4 or even the Mk18 I used later (primarily due to weight : caliber ratios). 

With the full 200 rounds and all? You must have had really sore arms after though right?

 

edit: 

for some reason I thought the m249 was heavier than 20lbs

Edited by NotBrad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, NotBrad said:

With the full 200 rounds and all? You must have had really sore arms after though right?

It wasn't that bad to be completely honest with you. The only aggravating part of using it is the hinge based bipod that when dirty can really mess with you in the field. Otherwise I found the weight more than manageable with an Elcan, 200rd soft pouch, and a PEQ15 mounted. Also to give a sense of scale I'm no machinegunner, I stand about 5' 8.5" around 175 pounds and still found the 249 easy to use for extended periods of time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NotBrad   
10 minutes ago, Fandango831 said:

It wasn't that bad to be completely honest with you. The only aggravating part of using it is the hinge based bipod that when dirty can really mess with you in the field. Otherwise I found the weight more than manageable with an Elcan, 200rd soft pouch, and a PEQ15 mounted. Also to give a sense of scale I'm no machinegunner, I stand about 5' 8.5" around 175 pounds and still found the 249 easy to use for extended periods of time. 

Well I suppose that isn't as bad as I would have thought, I'll be finding out first hand when I do basic training this winter, the C9 is basically the same as the m249. Gonna be hell. It goes down to -35 C here. And since I'm in university, I am doing it weekends only while also under a full courseload. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, NotBrad said:

Well I suppose that isn't as bad as I would have thought, I'll be finding out first hand when I do basic training this winter, the C9 is basically the same as the m249. Gonna be hell. It goes down to -35 C here. And since I'm in university, I am doing it weekends only while also under a full courseload. 

Congrats to that brother! I used to work with the PPCLI in Edmonton. Loved the time I got to spend working with them and I'm sure you'll be very surprised how manageable the C9 will be in hand while you're doing work in the field. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×