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Paco

Any chance of a modding wiki?

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Hi Devs - any chance of a wiki for modding? I'd be more than happy to contribute pieces here and there as I uncover them. 

 

From my own point of view using the SDK is incredibly frustrating atm - so anything that helps get modders up and running faster is likely to be a very good investment. I know its still in alpha and things will change, but at least it would be a starting point. 

 

Just my 2c.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The issue is that the game itself is still heavily in development, so things that are exposed to BP, or entire systems are subject to massive change in the future. I think what you're saying makes sense, but only from the end of early access or perhaps the start of the beta phase of the game. 

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Posted (edited)

Most of the issues are covered in official ue4 documentation. If you learn ue4 it will be not very hard to figure how squad custom content is working. 

Edited by FishMan

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Beta at the earliest. Maybe not a full-blown Wiki, but something that informs about Squad specific fuctionality and exposed attributes. would then compliment the UE4docs nicely.

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The only thing not really covered at Unreal is the proprietary game logic of Squad and you'd need to teach yourself that stuff. I poked around in it a bit and its C++ I think so knock yourself out there unless your wife is software engineer like mine. Everything else is documented but the challenge is you need to actually read all of it so we just all kind of share information and educate each other the best we can. Honestly my personal feeling is even once the Steam Marketplace opens up all the unwashed masses will for the most part just continue to play the stock maps anyway. But there's nothing wrong with learning the Unreal Editor as many games use it.

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I'm quite familiar with UE4 - been using it since it first came out, mainly in code though. The problem is all of the custom squad behaviour, and knowing exactly which parts to tweak to get the behavior you want. I've spent quite a lot of time with trial and error having to figure things out, which to some degree is to be expected, but a single wiki page would have made things 10x faster. Now after having to bug people on the forums and on discord to get that knowledge, if I move on to another project its all lost.

 

Even if some of the wiki is out of date after an update - it's better than nothing, and would be nothing compared to UE4 itself.

 

If I had access to the c++ code then it would also be a lot easier, but I can understand why they don't want to release that ;)

 

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Paco said:

Even if some of the wiki is out of date after an update - it's better than nothing, and would be nothing compared to UE4 itself.

 

I do agree with you to some degree, and wikis can be community run, so the information updates can be delegated to hundreds of people. I think if you set up a wiki and put up some articles there, pimp it out on Discord a little, you'll probably have a bunch of support in a manner of weeks and you might even have your wiki turned into the official squad modding wiki, just like the current "official" squad wiki started out as a community project, as far as I recall.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Honestly my personal feeling is even once the Steam Marketplace opens up all the unwashed masses will for the most part just continue to play the stock maps anyway. 

 

I may say some unpopular thing but I think it's because devs not supporting mod community very well. For example starting from the day sdk was released I haven't seen a single comment here from the developers. And Its funny - some time ago there was a news about some dude - a community manager. I haven't seen him even once here. So for example if you have any troubles with sdk - no one except fellow modder will help ya, cause devs are not even read this section, well as far as it looks like.

 

I mean when you doing something over here - no one give a damn about it. So it's not a surprise that people are not motivated to spend their lives doing something that no body needs. Well it just my opinion.

Edited by FishMan

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11 minutes ago, FishMan said:

 

I may say some unpopular thing but I think it's because devs not supporting mod community very well. For example starting from the day sdk was released I haven't seen a single comment here from the developers. And Its funny - some time ago there was a news about some dude - a community manager. I haven't seen him even once here. So for example if you have any troubles with sdk - no one except fellow modder will help ya, cause devs are not even read this section, well as far as it looks like.

but they are very active in discord.

forums is just so 2005 :) 

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3 hours ago, FishMan said:

 

I may say some unpopular thing but I think it's because devs not supporting mod community very well. For example starting from the day sdk was released I haven't seen a single comment here from the developers. And Its funny - some time ago there was a news about some dude - a community manager. I haven't seen him even once here. So for example if you have any troubles with sdk - no one except fellow modder will help ya, cause devs are not even read this section, well as far as it looks like.

 

I mean when you doing something over here - no one give a damn about it. So it's not a surprise that people are not motivated to spend their lives doing something that no body needs. Well it just my opinion.

Oh I don't get that vibe at all. Nor do I need their validation either as they're working day & night to finish the product and keep their promises. This would be like thinking the assembly line worker at Ford who installs the dashboard and seats cares about the turbo mods some speed shop out in California is doing on the new Mustang.

 

No, instead I was simply referring to the community in general as they will be the ones driving the demand for your particular map, laser pistol or character model. That said, honestly I don't believe it has anything to do with the innovation or quality of any particular mod people are creating as everything I've ever seen is very cool. More so it has to do with the actual teen demographic of the main player base. Go look at the Steamspy numbers, on average only around 1500-2000 unique people in the entire world play Squad per day and that's with school being out. I'm not knocking the game itself but that's honestly a very small number. Face it, you're modding a completly unfinished Alpha game that's basically a mod of another game. Doesn't get anymore cvlt than that bro.

 

Once the game is finished and increases in popularity maybe interest in mods will be there but for now I could care less as I find working with the UE very therapeutic & relaxing. Especially since once I finish converting all the maps over to North Korea and making a matching character set my next project will be full gore and gibs for Squad :)

 

 

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We do read, we do listen, we do help out in other areas (Discord, for example) when possible.

 

We are working very extensively (teasers coming soon) on kick-starting the modding community outside of just maps.

 

I have a sinking suspicion that the "new" guys that are working on developing the modding systems will have some documentation once we get to that point. (I have been told one of the programmers is a documentation fiend)

 

I will say, as Zylfax stated, that some things will just require patience on the communities part because as noted, our primary focus is getting Squad completed.

 

We appreciate everyone's understanding and feedback, much love!

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3 hours ago, SgtRoss said:

We are working very extensively (teasers coming soon) on kick-starting the modding community outside of just maps.

 

I'm REALLY looking forward to this!

 

I think most people here understand that modding is a lower priority than core game mechanics - and (allegedly) you guys can't work 24 hours a day... but the modding scene could take a fair bit of the load off you, and breathe a lot of life and enthusiasm into the community. I'm amazed at the mods people have already spent a lot of time and effort putting together with such limited resources (and minimal chance of wider release atm). 

 

If you really want to hit the ground running on this - can I suggest you let a few people test the SDK before its release? And of course if you had a wiki set up for it perhaps they could start with some of the documentation so that when it is finally released it will be a bonanza!

 

Either way, great game guys, keep going!

 

 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, rincewind said:

but they are very active in discord.

forums is just so 2005 :) 

Yes, i believe so, but DIscord cannot even get me an email so i can post, even though i was a member before - Discord is a chat-stream and a cop-out, and fairly useless when compared to a propper forum.

"Forums is just so 2005" - seriously?! - and yet you deign to post here ...?

 

14 hours ago, FishMan said:

some time ago there was a news about some dude - a Community Manager. I haven't seen him even once here. So for example if you have any troubles with sdk - no one except fellow modder will help ya, cause devs are not even read this section, well as far as it looks like.

What he says is not entirely untrue. i does appear that the only help modders are getting is from other modders - you only have to look through the Modding Helpdesk thread to see it.

 

I certainly do not expect the Devs to wade in everywhere or spend valuable time reading everything - that's not thier primary job - and i don't expect everything NOW on a silver platter, but i am glad to hear they are creating a team to deal with the SDK.

 

i'm just relieved there are like minded peeps on these forums that are willing to help thier fellow modders.

 

 

Edited by LaughingJack
coz

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12 hours ago, rincewind said:

forums is just so 2005

That's not true. Forums are great in sorting and storing a lot of information. Discord or any other messengers or social networks are always a giant junkyard where useful information is always drown in thousands of different messages. Well again as far as I see it.

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4 hours ago, SgtRoss said:

We do read, we do listen, we do help out in other areas (Discord, for example) when possible.

Well some attention from you will be great on the forum as well. Something like: "hey that's looks great" will be enough to encourage people to continue what they are doing. That will help people to avoid feeling that they doing something that no one needs. I really hope you'll find some time to have a small talks with your modders on the forum. Cheers.

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1 hour ago, FishMan said:

That's not true. Forums are great in sorting and storing a lot of information. Discord or any other messengers or social networks are always a giant junkyard where useful information is always drown in thousands of different messages. Well again as far as I see it.

Discord is very transient and typically forums stay around for decades like the Delta Force communities I was involved in. Plus it has a very suspicious business model. Personally, I get the feeling it's nothing more than a complex data miner cleverly disguised as a free gamer communication module. 

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51 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Discord is very transient and typically forums stay around for decades

 

2 hours ago, FishMan said:

That's not true. Forums are great in sorting and storing a lot of information. Discord or any other messengers or social networks are always a giant junkyard where useful information is always drown in thousands of different messages. Well again as far as I see it.

 

I totally agree with these sentiments. Things like a wiki and proper knowledge-sharing forums are far superior to discord because of the insanely temporary nature of the information shared chat programs like discord. I read discord but I shake my head at things like how several people have had to come up and ask virtually the same questions about modding in AI, each answered in very friendly terms but then as soon as they leave discord, that knowledge leaves with them. Not to mention that it's a chat program so topics naturally meander and you can sometimes have two to three separate sub-conversations happening in a channel at once, and it's just horribly messy in terms of a knowledge-sharing platform. Great for real time interaction, though!

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5 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Discord is very transient and typically forums stay around for decades like the Delta Force communities I was involved in. Plus it has a very suspicious business model. Personally, I get the feeling it's nothing more than a complex data miner cleverly disguised as a free gamer communication module. 

 

Wow! Want me to get your tinfoil hat now? Or can you do without it for a bit? Lol

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6 hours ago, Psyrus said:
7 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Discord is very transient and typically forums stay around for decades

 

8 hours ago, FishMan said:

That's not true. Forums are great in sorting and storing a lot of information. Discord or any other messengers or social networks are always a giant junkyard where useful information is always drown in thousands of different messages. Well again as far as I see it.

 

I totally agree with these sentiments. Things like a wiki and proper knowledge-sharing forums are far superior to discord because of the insanely temporary nature of the information shared chat programs like discord.

 

I also agree with this - IRC has been around a lot longer discord, and I've never heard anyone suggest they don't need a wiki or forum because of IRC. I guess it depends on the size of your community. If it's a handful of people then sure, forum or wiki is overboard, but if it's a larger community then you need a better resource. So much easier to point someone to a wiki page than to have to cut and paste the same things over again.

 

Anyway, seems the argument isn't really if we need a wiki, it's when. I'd suggest might as well start one now and modify it as the releases roll around. It would be a real help to people that want to join the modding community but can't hang around on discord to wait for help.

 

 

 

 

 

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IRC, Discord, and forums are all great places! They all have their benefits -- forums being searchable to almost everyone, Discord being great for real-time coordination and communication. Ultimately, though, they're not a permanent home for a guide. The good news is... there is a Squad wiki: https://squad.gamepedia.com/Squad_Wiki

 

It is currently a bit light on modding, but that's the beauty of wikis. The current set up even recognizes modders and mod players have different perspectives: https://squad.gamepedia.com/Wiki_Organisation =)

 

I would absolutely encourage everyone to check that out, add your thoughts, as well as join in on Discord if that's something you're up for. The modding community there is vibrant, and there's also a #wiki channel for assistance there too. =)

 

We're also currently working with Zak to get some modding content directly into your faces via the blog. Fear not, we love you.

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8 hours ago, Odin said:

 

Wow! Want me to get your tinfoil hat now? Or can you do without it for a bit? Lol

  • Central Intelligence Agency
  • In-Q-Tel (CIA Venture Capital Firm)
  • Greylock Partners (funded by In-Q-Tel)
  • Benchmark (funded by In-Q-Tel)
  • Palantir (Data Mining Software funded directly by In-Q-Tel - Helped find Osama Bin Laden)
  • Josh Elman (Greylock General Partner & personal friend of Jason Citron)
  • Hammer & Chisel Inc. (Jason Citron's start up company funded by Greylock, Benchmark & Tencent with 28 million)
  • Jason Citron (Game Developer - Full Sail University graduate)
  • Discord (completely free multi-functional online communications platform software created by Jason Citron operating since May 2015 with 45 million users and with a zero profit business model up until January 2017 with the introduction of "Discord Nitro" a $5 a month subscription fee and selling "stickers" Lmfao!

"Discord has also begun to see some usage outside gaming, with its text and voice chat becoming channels for gaming-adjacent interests like anime, weed and porn as well as politics. The latter has generated some attention, as alt-right groups used Discord to organize their trolling, but the app differs from other platforms like Twitter in that chats aren't public, so the potential for unsolicited harassment is significantly lower. "We’ve noticed it," Citron told BuzzFeed News, when asked about some of the groups back in January this year. "We read the news. But the way Discord is designed, it's not a public communication tool. Someone can’t airdrop out of the sky and bother you." <----------- Lmfao again, of course Discord isn't totally selling all your data to the highest bidder because you can seriously trust me Jason Citron becuz I'm totally a gamer bruh just like you guyz...

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Q-Tel

http://www.businessinsider.com/cia-vc-firm-conflict-of-interest-2016-8

http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/news/inside-discord-the-chat-app-thats-changing-how-gamers-communicate-w489086

https://www.digitaltrends.com/social-media/cia-invests-data-mining-firms/

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-08/meet-man-behind-cias-data-mining-contractor

https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapid=243221325

http://www.greylock.com/our-investment-in-discord/

https://storify.com/telesecret/cia-and-mossad-banking-money-laundering-and-intern

http://www.businessinsider.com/josh-elman-2016-predictions-and-thoughts-2016-1

 

 

 

 

 

Yup. Totally nothing to see here. Btw Odin, I wear a size 8 hat so make sure to get the larger roll of Reynolds Wrap please lol...

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Lmfao again, of course Discord isn't totally selling all your data to the highest bidder because you can seriously trust me Jason Citron becuz I'm totally a gamer bruh just like you guyz...

 

No offence, but every company does this. This is nothing new... may as well stay off the internet completely if you're afraid of data being sold to the highest bidder.

Edited by DoctorKamikaze

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6 minutes ago, DoctorKamikaze said:

 

No offence, but every company does this. This is nothing new... may as well stay off the internet completely if you're afraid of data being sold to the highest bidder.

 

Not just Internet, all wired and wireless communication device is up for being spied on. So I suggest we start a penpal squad modding support group, and collect stamps on the meantime... :) 

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4 hours ago, Gatzby said:

The good news is... there is a Squad wiki: https://squad.gamepedia.com/Squad_Wiki

 

Are you suggesting we add modding content in with all the game content? They are quite different content, however I guess that could work?

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3 hours ago, DoctorKamikaze said:

 

No offence, but every company does this. This is nothing new... may as well stay off the internet completely if you're afraid of data being sold to the highest bidder.

Big difference is it's quite likely that Discord constantly scans your entire file heiarchy and logs all your keystrokes in the background. Point is Discord is just another social media platform directly funded with CIA slush fund money and passed off as something hip & cool for gamers. No free lunch.

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