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Can clipping still be fixed or is it too late?

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Posted (edited)

Clipping. We hate it when we get shot because our body is sticking through a wall. Is it too late in development to fix this? Thanks in advance

Edited by _randombullet

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15 minutes ago, _randombullet said:

Clipping. We hate it when we get shot because our body is sticking through a wall. Is it too late in development to fix this? Thanks in advance

To the best of my knowledge what you're talking about is done with "blocking volumes". Inside the editor these appear as pink wire 3D boxes and can be resized to fit an area you don't want objects to pass through.

 

Short answer it's never too late however it would take many many hours of meticulous labor to create more of them. 

 

Take Fools Road for example. The basements at Hilltop are loaded with them. I'm guessing to prevent you from falling through the map.

 

You can read more here:

 

https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Actors/Volumes/#blockingvolume

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16 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

To the best of my knowledge what you're talking about is done with "blocking volumes". Inside the editor these appear as pink wire 3D boxes and can be resized to fit an area you don't want objects to pass through.

 

Short answer it's never too late however it would take many many hours of meticulous labor to create more of them. 

 

Take Fools Road for example. The basements at Hilltop are loaded with them. I'm guessing to prevent you from falling through the map.

 

You can read more here:

 

https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Actors/Volumes/#blockingvolume

Gotcha. That would be quite a few buildings and fences to cover. Im going to assume we will just have to deal with it. Appreciate the info.

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For one of the V10 previews they showed adaptive prone animation based on the steepness of slope you are lying on. Maybe they'll add contractible legs if you are close to a wall. We'll have to wait and see.

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They already have collision boxes/shapes on the players, but for some reason (technical, priority) they haven't changed the size/orientation of the capsule/shape when the player prones, so it sits in the middle of your character's avatar, with the width of the character when he's standing. Thus you can crawl right up to a wall in prone and it only starts blocking you when it hits that middle part of your torso. If the simple collision shape was adjusted to match the avatar's profile when proned, this issue would be solved as far as I know. 

 

For projectile they use complex collisions (geometry based) but for world interactions it is normally done with just simple collision boxes. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Psyrus said:

They already have collision boxes/shapes on the players, but for some reason (technical, priority) they haven't changed the size/orientation of the capsule/shape when the player prones, so it sits in the middle of your character's avatar, with the width of the character when he's standing. Thus you can crawl right up to a wall in prone and it only starts blocking you when it hits that middle part of your torso. If the simple collision shape was adjusted to match the avatar's profile when proned, this issue would be solved as far as I know. 

 

For projectile they use complex collisions (geometry based) but for world interactions it is normally done with just simple collision boxes. 

 

 

I see it a lot when I'm in the Stryker on Al Basrah when the Insurgents get up into the high rise buildings and prone next to walls and their guns and feet clip out the walls. I'm guessing you'd need to create a blocking volume for each exposed wall. Sounds tedious to say the least.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

I see it a lot when I'm in the Stryker on Al Basrah when the Insurgents get up into the high rise buildings and prone next to walls and their guns and feet clip out the walls. I'm guessing you'd need to create a blocking volume for each exposed wall. Sounds tedious to say the least.

 

They don't need to do that, the walls already handle collisions, the devs just need to change the "blocking volume" (not really, but to keep the terms consistent) on the player so that their collision starts at their outstretched arms, or the tip of the gun, or at the very least their head. 

 

BpYRF81eQ0GXK57y7bGHWg.png

 

Edit: Simple vs Complex collisions

https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Physics/SimpleVsComplex/

Edited by Psyrus

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It's never too late for fixes!

 

New animations (like the ones from the recent mocap article!) and the system that support them should help here. Personally, I think collision issues can be a bummer of a way to put the icing on a bad run. Would love to do what we can to limit keyboard flips. ;)

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On 8/6/2017 at 0:03 PM, Peerun said:

Heel and muzzle, imho.

 

People often think they want collisions on their weapons, until they try to navigate anywhere with complex geometry around them. It becomes very clunky because the weapon is "fixed" in front of the character, so to make it so that it isn't an absolute nightmare in buildings or heavily forested areas, you would need something like this:

 

 

But I have heard that the devs are not interested (at least at this point in time) in going with a system that complex

 

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Posted (edited)

Oh no, I didn't mean collision as in actual collision of the muzzle with the wall. That'd be a complete nightmare.
What I meant is that when the collision box on the muzzle touches the collision box of the wall that'd trigger the weapon to lower, or the legs fold.
 

Edited by Peerun

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cod4 has collision when prone. it gets really frustrating when you cant move freely. Basically trapping yourself without control, it is clunky but prevents the sticking through walls effect we see in squad, one of the recent battlefield series also forced a move away from the wall to lay down, this was a little better but still felt uncontrolled.

 

In reality if you wanted to stay laying down and turn in a tight place you would feel the obstacles and alter your limb positions to enable the movement. In all poistions you would press against surfaces altering your body shape to suit.

 

In UE4 they have shown some nice gun collision animations like the one Psyrus posted above, i hope this can be extended to the limbs in a way that we don't notice when moving around.

Clipping all the walls is probably unnecessary, they would only need to alter the animations reactions to existing clips.

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8 hours ago, suds said:

Clipping all the walls is probably unnecessary, they would only need to alter the animations reactions to existing clips.


As Psyrus already said, the problem is with the character collision, all the walls are fine, that's why you can't walk through them.

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On 8/8/2017 at 1:12 AM, Peerun said:

Oh no, I didn't mean collision as in actual collision of the muzzle with the wall. That'd be a complete nightmare.
What I meant is that when the collision box on the muzzle touches the collision box of the wall that'd trigger the weapon to lower, or the legs fold.
 

Yeah this is what I really want to see. Old Rust before they rewrote the game from the ground up had something where if you walked into a wall with your gun, the gun would be pushed backwards and if you were looking down the sights you would also lower it. Adjusting yourself to look over a window frame for example would make you aim down sights again once your muzzle wasn't touching the wall below, and if you looked down again you would lower it and it would get pushed back again. It was a good smooth system but I know it wasn't complete because if you kept walking into the wall your gun would end up held in a really weird position, but I think that's better than the current system in squad.

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Posted (edited)
On 2017-08-08 at 7:12 AM, Peerun said:

Oh no, I didn't mean collision as in actual collision of the muzzle with the wall. That'd be a complete nightmare.
What I meant is that when the collision box on the muzzle touches the collision box of the wall that'd trigger the weapon to lower, or the legs fold.
 

Exactly. I've seen it in other games and it shouldn't be hard to just show weapon raised animation when coming too close, preventing you from firing of course. Regarding legs sticking out etc -can't they simply be "amputated" when in contact with a collision box, eg a wall? That way movement will not be obstructed.

 

Problem with extended collision box for prone is that it will prevent you from going prone in certain places or push you off the wall, which will be immensely irritating when trying to avoid getting shot.

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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3 hours ago, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

Regarding legs sticking out etc -can't they simply be "amputated" when in contact with a collision box, eg a wall? That way movement will not be obstructed.


That's a stupid solution.
I'd liken it to having an owl and a mouse problem, but only getting rid of the owls.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Peerun said:


That's a stupid solution.
I'd liken it to having an owl and a mouse problem, but only getting rid of the owls.

Please tell me why it is stupid?

 

The big problem today is that people can spot prone people through walls. If they get amputated they can't. It is an easy solution that can be implemented fast to get rid of an annoying problem. Yeah it doesn't look good for the people inside but it doesn't currently either. Also it won't obstruct movement and is very cheap on the cpu. Tell me about your smart solution now.

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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21 minutes ago, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

Please tell me why it is stupid?

 

The big problem today is that people can spot prone people through walls. If they get amputated they can't. It is an easy solution that can be implemented fast to get rid of an annoying problem. Yeah it doesn't look good for the people inside but it doesn't currently either. Also it won't obstruct movement and is very cheap on the cpu. Tell me about your smart solution now.


I think he only meant that amputating part of character models is not and will not ever be a solution to the clipping problem.

 

21 minutes ago, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

Also it won't obstruct movement and is very cheap on the cpu


This is just incorrect. Removing parts of a character model and replacing it at runtime would definitely NOT be cheap on the CPU. 

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5 hours ago, Peerun said:

9cb1127fe769c6f6fa8be331079f7de012e4ed38

 

 

6 hours ago, Odin said:


I think he only meant that amputating part of character models is not and will not ever be a solution to the clipping problem.

 


This is just incorrect. Removing parts of a character model and replacing it at runtime would definitely NOT be cheap on the CPU. 

OK yes, but it is at least a solution to the most imminent problem of detecting enemies through the walls right? 

 

OK my bad, but tell me why is it so expensive to clip one volume in intersection with another volume like in a cad program - isn't that what gpus are specialised in in the first place? Leaving the cpu mostly out of that interaction. I am not talking about replacing the character model. Only hide whatever part of the model that intersects with and out through the wall. Seems it must be a very common problem for a 3d engine engine to handle. Almost supported out of the box I may imagine. But then again I have never actually truly played with one much.

 

Like I said, it will look shitty on the inside but enemies can't see you at least. And for clipping visuals on the inside, raise the weapons is good enough, no?

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