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Socrates

FOB Mechanics Too Harsh

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Socrates   

Ever since this update, it seems that FOB tactics are very difficult ("too harsh") in terms of getting them to function effectively, especially with the problem of running out of ammo.

 

Do you think this is a good direction for the functions of FOB tactics for the future?

 

What are your thoughts about the new FOB mechanisms set in place?

 

 

Edited by Socrates

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Nordic   

Promotes teamwork, tactics and higher skill cap because you need to cordinate with more players.

Logistics is ment to be something more than a one use thing.


Don't see the problem.

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Smee   

There are good and bad points about it. It does slow play and less likely to have fobs appear from no where. But there needs to be a settling in time. Some people are still planting fobs and expecting them to brew up.

 

Other thing Is logistic squads are not as abundant as people expected. Or motar squads don't want to let go of their supply truck. Throw into the mais people leaving logistic in the middle of nowhere it's throwing the game fob structure out. Hopefullytime time will improve.play.

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1 hour ago, Smee said:

Other thing Is logistic squads are not as abundant as people expected.

 

Need to remove the claim requirement for Logistics trucks, the Officer kit requirement to place assets, and the 3-man requirement to place FOBs(Also remove starting resources on FOBs, of course). Running a logistics squad just isn't practical because you end up with two very bored people for most of the time. I'd be happy to drive Logistics trucks back and forth all day, placing and building FOBs and emplacements, but if doing so requires two people in the squad and three people to place a FOB, those people are going to spend most of their time sitting in the passenger seat of the Logistics truck.

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Peerun   
12 minutes ago, Tartantyco said:

 

Need to remove the claim requirement for Logistics trucks, the Officer kit requirement to place assets, and the 3-man requirement to place FOBs(Also remove starting resources on FOBs, of course). Running a logistics squad just isn't practical because you end up with two very bored people for most of the time. I'd be happy to drive Logistics trucks back and forth all day, placing and building FOBs and emplacements, but if doing so requires two people in the squad and three people to place a FOB, those people are going to spend most of their time sitting in the passenger seat of the Logistics truck.


Have you tried having an 8 man infantry squad with +1 as a logi driver?

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Just now, Peerun said:


Have you tried having an 8 man infantry squad with +1 as a logi driver?

 

Many have, and it always ends up with Logistics trucks abandoned on the battlefield. And they're only used for HABs, and usually only for one FOB, before being abandoned. A dedicated Logi squad can set up Repair FOBs on the flanks and, if they remove the 20 ticket FOB value, set up forward emplacements and fortifications that aid in offense or defense.

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Qaiex   

What if we add logistics dude as a new role, with a limited kit but the ability to build like a squad leader and dig like a soldier? You could keep the 3-man limit for building FOBs for regular infantry, and still allow dedicated logi squads with far more efficiency.

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Peerun   
2 hours ago, Tartantyco said:

 

Many have, and it always ends up with Logistics trucks abandoned on the battlefield. And they're only used for HABs, and usually only for one FOB, before being abandoned. A dedicated Logi squad can set up Repair FOBs on the flanks and, if they remove the 20 ticket FOB value, set up forward emplacements and fortifications that aid in offense or defense.


Here's an idea. If you're running an armour squad, get a blueberry in your vehicle to set up a FOB then ask the squad with the logi to supply it and build your own repair station.
I can already hear you saying, it won't happen because there's not enough coordination. If there's that little coordination in your team then any amount of flank FOBs won't make a difference.
Not to mention you are contradicting yourself, as many have. A dedicated logi squad? Didn't you just say that logi should be a one-man job? Where's the squad come in?
You guys are ridiculous. After every update, when new players buy the game and everything becomes chaos once again you start coming up with short term fixes. Panic mode engaged. Instead you should be looking forward to how the gameplay will be shaped in the long run by the devs.
If you think for a second, you might even realize that this logi squad of 3 extremely bored people is likely going to be the commander and his cohorts.

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Qaiex   
3 hours ago, Peerun said:

Not to mention you are contradicting yourself, as many have. A dedicated logi squad? Didn't you just say that logi should be a one-man job? Where's the squad come in?

 

Well there's more than one logi truck, isn't there? Surely a logistics squad should, at the very least, have as many members as there are trucks.

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Get the C119 Boxcar in there to drop supplies from the air....we need fly boys! 

Edited by XRobinson

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Qaiex   

In PR transport helicopters could drop supplies, so I wonder if they're going to do the same here. Would make it a more reasonable task to build and supply shit like this:

 

MDL_AFGHANISTANI026.jpg

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tatzhit   

I just made a topic in the Suggestions section arguing that 1,000 ammo cap is too low for full servers, because it gets rapidly depleted on heavily populated FOBs even if the FOB is being supplied. 2,000 is more like it.

Otherwise, I like the new system. It's not perfect, but it's better than the old one, more realistic. Although the old cooker FOBs and infinite ammo crates were definitely loads of fun sometimes.

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20 hours ago, Peerun said:

Here's an idea. If you're running an armour squad, get a blueberry in your vehicle to set up a FOB then ask the squad with the logi to supply it and build your own repair station.
I can already hear you saying, it won't happen because there's not enough coordination. If there's that little coordination in your team then any amount of flank FOBs won't make a difference.

 

You're confusing different levels of coordination here. I mean, what you're describing can already be done, but doesn't happen. Does that mean nobody's coordinated, then? No, it simply means that your "solution" is too impractical.

 

20 hours ago, Peerun said:

Not to mention you are contradicting yourself, as many have. A dedicated logi squad? Didn't you just say that logi should be a one-man job? Where's the squad come in?

 

A 1-man squad is a squad. It means they have direct comms to other SLs, and are able to coordinate. However, I didn't say that logistics should be a 1-man job. I said it should be possible to do it alone.

 

20 hours ago, Peerun said:

You guys are ridiculous. After every update, when new players buy the game and everything becomes chaos once again you start coming up with short term fixes. Panic mode engaged. Instead you should be looking forward to how the gameplay will be shaped in the long run by the devs.
If you think for a second, you might even realize that this logi squad of 3 extremely bored people is likely going to be the commander and his cohorts.

 

First of all, I've been suggesting this since before the pre-Alpha, so calling this panic mode short-term fixes is just dumb. Unlike you, I actually think through the consequences of something.

 

And you still think we'll have a Commander? It didn't work in PR, and it won't work here. To make it work, you'd need to give him more power than what you can safely give a single point of failure. So, it'd either end up the anemic and unoccupied CO of PR, or a heavily disruptive and abused position.

 

Just follow my suggestion, and everything is solved. With or without having to wait a year for a feature that is unlikely.

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40mmrain   
15 minutes ago, Tartantyco said:

 

And you still think we'll have a Commander? It didn't work in PR, and it won't work here. To make it work, you'd need to give him more power than what you can safely give a single point of failure. So, it'd either end up the anemic and unoccupied CO of PR, or a heavily disruptive and abused position.

 

 

The only reason the commander wasn't played was because it was ****ing boring. People want to shoot bad guys, fly around in missile toting jets and helicopters, or blow shit up with a tank. Commander's only responsibility is sit around and explain a generalized grand strategy to the team.

 

You could just double up commander and squad lead's role, and I'd do it every match. Currently there is nothing enforcing that players listen to their squad leaders, and they do, why would they not the commander?

Edited by 40mmrain

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Peerun   
1 hour ago, Tartantyco said:

And you still think we'll have a Commander? It didn't work in PR, and it won't work here. To make it work, you'd need to give him more power than what you can safely give a single point of failure. So, it'd either end up the anemic and unoccupied CO of PR, or a heavily disruptive and abused position.


Well it was confirmed multiple times on the forum and recently on an interview/podcast with AFSoccer, so I have strong reason to believe that a commander role will be put in.

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1 hour ago, Tartantyco said:

And you still think we'll have a Commander? It didn't work in PR, and it won't work here.

 

Where did this come from? It required a different kind of player to play commander, true, and most of the players wouldn't play a commander, but you only need to find one player in each team willing to do it. Even a mediocre commander could put his team at a great advantage, help to easily win armor battles (gaining armor superiority often meant the round was won then and there on some maps), spot enemy FOBs, lase static targets for CAS and put down sneaky FOBs. If you underestimate the PR commander, then you don't fully understand what the role is capable of - he could single-handedly tilt the entire game in your favor.

 

On 20. 7. 2017 at 9:18 AM, Socrates said:

Do you think this is a good direction for the functions of FOB tactics for the future?

 

Simply put, yes. Cooker FOBs made by walking 3 guys behind enemy lines, plopping down a radio and waiting two minutes, after which your entire team  could start spawning there were way too easy to set up and way too powerful.

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@MultiSquid You're confusing the Commander with his abilities. Sure, people go CO for the JDAM and UAV, but that is it. They're not actually Commanders. It's "Wait for JDAM to charge up, jump in CO position, use JDAM, leave CO position". His abilities in PR can be powerful, but the CO isn't.

 

None of which is relevant to the CO supposedly running logistics, which would just be bad. All the tools required are in the game already, we just need to remove obsolete restrictions put in place when the FOB system functioned very differently.

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Qaiex   
1 hour ago, Tartantyco said:

@MultiSquid You're confusing the Commander with his abilities. Sure, people go CO for the JDAM and UAV, but that is it. They're not actually Commanders. It's "Wait for JDAM to charge up, jump in CO position, use JDAM, leave CO position". His abilities in PR can be powerful, but the CO isn't.

 

None of which is relevant to the CO supposedly running logistics, which would just be bad. All the tools required are in the game already, we just need to remove obsolete restrictions put in place when the FOB system functioned very differently.

 

I understand your concern, and share it. But a commander doesn't necessarily have to act like they did in PR. That system was based entirely off of BF2, which was very limiting in scope. You could just as well have something like a platoon commander, who is out in the field alongside his soldiers. It'd be more like the squad leader of the squad leaders.

 

Less Lieutenant Colonel, more First Lieutenant.

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Fuller   

OnTopic:

Harsh? Hahaha :D It is still very easy to setup and maintain a FOB/HAB even under harsh circumstances compared to PR (PR gameplay>Squad gameplay...for now atleast). I hope they will change that in the future, so FOB/HABs become unspawnable when enemys are within 50m and rally points will simply dissapear.
The current system with all the HAB/Rally camping bullsh** is not worthy a game like squad^^
So people really have to plan and think twice before setting up an offensive FOB.
Btw. i'd really like to see some sort of ammo bunker where you can store ~5000 ammo. (especially with more emplacements like AA, heavy AT,..)

OffTopic:

I played quite a few games as CO in PR and CO is super powerful. (especially with the right team).
1.) You can build FOBs AND delete FOBs everywhere on the map.
2.) The UAV with 3x zoom,FLIR (WHOT/BHOT) and DTV. So you can spot enemy armor/FOB/infantry easily.
3.) You can put down a lazer anywhere on the map and mark locations for your CAS/infantry and vehicles. (Tanks with laser guided munitions).


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CptDirty   

New FOB mechanic sucks only because not a lot of emphasis is being made on the importance of Log runs. Hell, I am FORCED to do them myself as SL because when I ask nicely (and not so nicely) I just get 0 response from my squad mates. This has been a consistent experience in the last 10+ matches since new alpha version. 

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37 minutes ago, CptDirty said:

New FOB mechanic sucks only because not a lot of emphasis is being made on the importance of Log runs. Hell, I am FORCED to do them myself as SL because when I ask nicely (and not so nicely) I just get 0 response from my squad mates. This has been a consistent experience in the last 10+ matches since new alpha version. 

 

If you get 0 response from your squad, you should start kicking people from your squad. This isn't a game mechanical problem, this is a you problem.

Edited by Tartantyco

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Quacken   
On 2017-07-20 at 9:51 PM, tatzhit said:

I just made a topic in the Suggestions section arguing that 1,000 ammo cap is too low for full servers, because it gets rapidly depleted on heavily populated FOBs even if the FOB is being supplied. 2,000 is more like it.

Otherwise, I like the new system. It's not perfect, but it's better than the old one, more realistic. Although the old cooker FOBs and infinite ammo crates were definitely loads of fun sometimes.


The problem is not the 1.000 ammo cap, it's enough to supply a team for a while. The problem are players who rearm at a crate after they've fired 1 rocket, 2 GLs or patched someone. If players would stop rearming like that it would save ammo for the more important roles like AT and Medics.


OffTopic:

Commander role could still be the leader of a squad, all it means is that this player got some more options then a regular squad leader.

 

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CptDirty   
1 hour ago, Tartantyco said:

 

If you get 0 response from your squad, you should start kicking people from your squad. This isn't a game mechanical problem, this is a you problem.

 

I guess I'd rather be a good SL with a little more responsibilities making sure my squad has everything they need to succeed at the task at hand instead of kicking people. Goes to promote positive vibes and getting them to have more fun.

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