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Release: Alpha Version 9.6

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1 hour ago, Arduras said:

It's not infinite, you only get so many ammo points and I think FOBs start with 200 construction points and probably around the same in ammo (can't remember atm) but constantly digging up/creating FOBs is time consuming for a few resupplies. Resupplies take ammo points now, or at least they're supposed to according to patch notes.

 

It is infinite. Literally. I can place infinite FOBs. This gives me infinite construction and ammo points. It would take me at most 4 FOB drops to resupply a full squad, which would still take less time than dropping a FOB and waiting for resources in 9.5. Like half the time. And don't pretend like this is some massive inconvenience. It takes no time at all, and if you had a squad that was completely out of ammunition you would do this in an instant. As everyone does in 9.6 already.

 

It's actually harder to get resupplied near a supplied FOB because you have to move to the ammo crate, which can be a dangerous proposition in many cases.

 

1 hour ago, Arduras said:

I'm not against FOBs starting with some supply, it's implied that you have something to keep the radio there after all. (I mean, a guy can carry a a half tonne of sand now, so hey) but it should be limited to immediate palisade defense.

 

No, it shouldn't have any resources at all. If you intend to build something somewhere, you make sure someone delivers logistical supplies. That is what determines that you have a reason to place the FOB there. Want to build fortifications somewhere? Then get the necessary logistics there through stuff like teamwork and coordination. You know, Squad stuff.

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I am with you on this one @Tartantyco No supplies, no emplacements. 

If the squad could do this ones per respawn it would make some sense, after all the soldiers do carry something with them out in the field. But then you could just give them an ammobag or something.

Edited by Igno
Typo

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On 14/07/2017 at 11:57 PM, Tartantyco said:

No, it shouldn't have any resources at all. If you intend to build something somewhere, you make sure someone delivers logistical supplies. That is what determines that you have a reason to place the FOB there. Want to build fortifications somewhere? Then get the necessary logistics there through stuff like teamwork and coordination. You know, Squad stuff.

 

+1 B|

 

On 15/07/2017 at 0:06 AM, Igno said:

I am with you on this one @Tartantyco No supplies, no emplacements. 

If the squad could do this ones per respawn it would make some sense, after all the soldiers do carry something with them out in the field. But then you could just give them an ammobag or something.

 

+1 too

 

I personnaly dont like the new feature allowing riflemen to plant sandbags out of nowhere. I'd limit this ability within the range of a correctly supplied FOB. The base idea is good ; but too powerful ;)

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Until the rifleman gets the PR ammo kit, having a resupply handy is nice. That being said, I do hope it's changed for the better. besides, now they can get around the limitation of scripted ammo points and people dogpiling a tiny satchel.

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When are you guys going to at bipods in the game. I thought that it was going to be this update. I love the support class but its unplaying with the recoil.

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8 hours ago, Arduras said:

Until the rifleman gets the PR ammo kit, having a resupply handy is nice. That being said, I do hope it's changed for the better. besides, now they can get around the limitation of scripted ammo points and people dogpiling a tiny satchel.

 

It wasn't a problem in 9.5, why are people suddenly pretending that magically conjuring instant rearming in the middle of nowhere is now crucial to gameplay?

 

7 hours ago, LabWorks said:

When are you guys going to at bipods in the game. I thought that it was going to be this update. I love the support class but its unplaying with the recoil.

 

I think they were getting around to it in v10? At least, that's when I think they're adding the ability to use window sills and the like for supporting weapons.

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If like Arduas said, people need to rearm, which of course they do, isn't that just another reason why removing points from FOBs without supplies is good? Since that would mean the only place you could rearm is a supplied FOB, so that creates an incentive for building more FOBs around the map, so squads have places to go when they need to rearm. And it would also promote building the FOBs in such a way that they can be easily supplied by logistics squads, ie. not hidden in weird places. There'd be some sort of logic and reason to where they're placed.

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If you make it too difficult or time consuming to re-arm it'll go back to the ol' Suicide to get there faster routine.

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3 minutes ago, Arduras said:

If you make it too difficult or time consuming to re-arm it'll go back to the ol' Suicide to get there faster routine.

At present , HAT and Scout one good hit and you can respawn and just carry on without worry about ticket loss. 

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Just now, Smee said:

At present , HAT and Scout one good hit and you can respawn and just carry on without worry about ticket loss. 

Precisely, and teams that figure this out are absolutely unstoppable on Invasion since the IED/rocket spam is intense.

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They git rid if the command to suicide plus if you had roles like recuit get ammo bag so he because ammo bear has no grades one flash hang one primary weapon ni grip no red dot no optics and a shovel?

 

 

Ar could have a rifleman with one extra mag for him acting as his assign him?

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1 hour ago, Arduras said:

If you make it too difficult or time consuming to re-arm it'll go back to the ol' Suicide to get there faster routine.

 

1 hour ago, Smee said:

At present , HAT and Scout one good hit and you can respawn and just carry on without worry about ticket loss. 


So, the respawn-rearm "trick" is obviously still occurring at present moment. Which means that the current logistics (and spawn) features and mechanics haven't really solved the problem. Implying that the cause might lie elsewhere than in merely having or not having initially embedded resources in a single FOB placement. Perhaps if all special weaponry/equipment needed to be supplied and armed with every spawn (excluding the base rig, rifle, grenades, etc.), you'd get rid of that problem. But otherwise, if spawns costs resources, it might deter enough.

In any case, there must be a slight degree of time consumption when rearming. The whole process needs to weigh enough so that you take it into account and consider it in your planning. Otherwise, what's the point of having logistics at all? If you can just produce industrial resources on the spot, independently of the entire machine, then will it not defeat the core principles of Squad? Namely, teamwork, strategy, and tactics, in the context of battle authenticity. And just to point out, these are things which are time consuming, either way. If people don't like that, then perhaps Squad is not the correct game for them?

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1 hour ago, Lutz_Persn said:

So, the respawn-rearm "trick" is obviously still occurring at present moment. Which means that the current logistics (and spawn) features and mechanics haven't really solved the problem. Implying that the cause might lie elsewhere than in merely having or not having initially embedded resources in a single FOB placement.

 

They're both issues.

 

Respawn-to-Rearm can be fixed by having spawning consume resources, which would require FOBs and RPs be supplied to spawn on them. Spawning (Partially) unarmed would just be annoying. People would run off and forget to rearm, spawn in and find that someone else used the last ammo, and so on.

 

Just do this and everything's solved:

The 3-man requirement to place FOBs and 2-man requirement to take a Logistics Truck also needs to be removed. Even the Officer kit requirement to place a FOB. It really stops most attempts at dedicated logistics. Lastly, the ticket cost of FOBs needs to go.

 

I just ran a 3-man Logistics, set up one FOB and HAB, went back for resupply, supplied a backfield Repair FOB, went back for resupply, and then went to build another FOB and HAB. My two guys had to sit around in the truck for most of that time. I had to keep them with me to place a FOB and to build stuff, so it's not like I could just drop them off while there was downtime. This resulted in two guys doing nothing for much of the game, those two people being bored for most of the game, and them leaving eventually.

 

On my own, that would have been fine. But with two guys that I have to drag with me everywhere, it's a drag.

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12 minutes ago, Tartantyco said:

 

On my own, that would have been fine. But with two guys that I have to drag with me everywhere, it's a drag.

You only need one person now to claim a vechinea but u need 2 people in your squad to do so in v9.6 

 

 

 

In the problem with rearming you could make it so it so you have 10 seconds to stand by the ammo box after selection to change or rearm?

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Ah, now the whole thing makes more sense. See, I mistakenly believed that the issue people were complaining about is that the resupply situation somehow got much worse since 9.5 (which it really didn't IMO).

However, now it seems that the people are complaining that it should be much harder to get resupplied compared to ALL previous versions of Squad, which is an entirely different argument. When it comes to that, I think it's not a bad idea IF done correctly - that is, done in a way that doesn't detract from the game experience.

Unfortunately, I believe doing it correctly would be problematic. Even now, oftentimes no one wants to play "Afghanistan Truck Simulator" on pub servers.
The "respawn trick" is part of the same problem - it's not a loophole that needs to be closed, it's a symptom that indicates the resupply system isn't working properly and people have to respawn in order to get resupplied. If resupply system gets "fixed" by further restricting resupply, those who don't cherish playing Walking Simulator for 10 minutes in order to get another HAT rocket will just leave the game, and Squad would go the way of other ARMA-likes that accurately and realistically captured the boredom of modern warfare.
 

 

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35 minutes ago, tatzhit said:

Ah, now the whole thing makes more sense. See, I mistakenly believed that the issue people were complaining about is that the resupply situation somehow got much worse since 9.5 (which it really didn't IMO).

However, now it seems that the people are complaining that it should be much harder to get resupplied compared to ALL previous versions of Squad, which is an entirely different argument.

 

I don't think anyone's making that particular argument. It's about having a logistical situation that actually makes sense. For instance, if your squad is on Hilltop Encampment on Fool's Road and you're completely surrounded by the enemy, you shouldn't have bottomless ammo crates(9.5) or you instant resupply(9.6). You should have what you physically managed to get up there, be that a full logistics truck, a well-stocked HMMWV, or just some Riflemen with ammo bags. And when those supplies run out, you're done for.

 

In all, considering the resupply features confirmed by Sgt.Ross here, it would probably be easier to stay resupplies across the map in future versions than in 9.6 or preceding versions. The point, though, is that those resources, whether carried on foot or by a vehicle, would have been physically carried there and remain physically present there. This allows the enemy to intercept them before they arrive or destroy them where located.

 

If your team surrounds the enemy position, cuts off their supply lines, and destroys their logistical vehicles, the enemy shouldn't just get to keep going without a care in the world. They should run out of supplies and be overwhelmed. That is what makes sense, don't you think?

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11 minutes ago, Tartantyco said:

 

I don't think anyone's making that particular argument. It's about having a logistical situation that actually makes sense. ...
 

If your team surrounds the enemy position, cuts off their supply lines, and destroys their logistical vehicles, the enemy shouldn't just get to keep going without a care in the world. They should run out of supplies and be overwhelmed. That is what makes sense, don't you think?

 

Yes, I agree. As I said, I misinterpreted your argument earlier. I'm all for more realism, as long as it doesn't also generate more hassle and boredom.

Edited by tatzhit

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This building FOBs with ammo resources already associated needs to go like cooker FOBs have to stop the exploitation. I just hope the push back doesn't lead to players taking the 'easy way out' just to resupply. I understand the game is in alpha and sometimes you need to use the suicide command but in the future there needs to be some form of punishment to restrict its use.

 

If they were to give the rifleman extra ammo he can deploy I hope it's just 9 / 5.56 / 7.62 rounds and not any form of explosives (RPG, Frag or 40mm). He should also be limited in what he could dish out before he needs to resupply at a FOBs ammo crate or vehicle as well, using up those extra resources from the crate / vehicle. I wouldn't mind seeing vehicles as limited mobile ammo crates to see how that pans out.

 

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On 17/07/2017 at 1:30 PM, Dls Samuel said:

They git rid if the command to suicide plus if you had roles like recuit get ammo bag so he because ammo bear has no grades one flash hang one primary weapon ni grip no red dot no optics and a shovel?

 

 

Ar could have a rifleman with one extra mag for him acting as his assign him?

No they didnt - its changed to 'respawn' - telling people to suicide online is apparently too harsh. 

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25 minutes ago, IINAYDOGII said:

No they didnt - its changed to 'respawn' - telling people to suicide online is apparently too harsh. 

 

What are the little snowflakes doing playing a fps anyway?

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1 hour ago, Major Trouble said:

 

What are the little snowflakes doing playing a fps anyway?

 

Edit: Nevermind, not worth it for someone like you.

 

I believe the name was changed to reflect what the command actually does, also because yes, since suicide is kind of an issue for a lot of people it's nicer to reflect it this way.

Edited by Ratface

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Unfortunately I have very negative feelings about the most recent update.

 

First of all, the possibility to lock on a squad is bad, really bad. Now, in all games, instead of four nice full teams of 9 players that are forced to cooperate in order to win a game, we are getting two or even one full team and 2-3 locked squads of 2-3 guys, where the rest of players are running random. It totally devastates for me the main idea of playing squads in Squad. It's just broken and overused. I hate it. There is also a situation where you join server, and due to locked squads there is no free squad to join - you are FORCED to play solo. Seriously? It feels like some CoD stuff.

 

And the second thing is ... I'm glad there is new content, I'm just less happy that I still can't enjoy it as with current optimisation for AMD CPUs game is unplayable. I really regret I did not refunded Squad on Steam.  

 

 

I rate this patch 3/10, 3 for new content added, really small updates but smart outside of course this damn, game breaking SQUAD LOCK! 

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15 minutes ago, PadrePadre said:

And the second thing is ... I'm glad there is new content, I'm just less happy that I still can't enjoy it as with current optimisation for AMD CPUs game is unplayable. I really regret I did not refunded Squad on Steam.  

There will be a lot more optimization from now on so if I were you I would just put the game down and come back in a few months instead of getting frustrated with it.

15 hours ago, Major Trouble said:

 

What are the little snowflakes doing playing a fps anyway?

That's just awful. Please stop.

Edited by fatalsushi

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57 minutes ago, fatalsushi said:

There will be a lot more optimization from now on so if I were you I would just put the game down and come back in a few months instead of getting frustrated with it.

 

But I've bought game now, and I regret it (unfortunately) as I could play something else in those few months.

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