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Release: Alpha Version 9.6

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tatzhit   
16 minutes ago, Qaiex said:

 

Exactly, which is why free sandbags would be so beneficial. You remove the problem of infinite ammo crates by making it impossible to build ammo crates or any other construction without logi supplies, and at the same time you prevent the change from making FOBs without logi supplies completely defenseless, which I assume is the point of starting you with a small amount of construction points. Right? To encourage people to build actual Forward Operating Bases rather than deployable spawn points.

 

Blah, all that's needed to make the "fresh FOB ammo crate resupply" go away is to make FOBs start without ammo. Then you could build ammo crates, but wouldn't be able to resupply.

But that's only if the ability to build a FOB in order to resupply one guy 400m+ away from the action was any sort of a problem.
Which it's not IMO.

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34 minutes ago, tatzhit said:

What is a hotly contested area doing without a spawn FOB?

 

You know maps are quite big, right? And that teams fight over kilometer long frontlines.

 

34 minutes ago, tatzhit said:

Once again: reloading was easier in 9.5 because you had to wait a couple minutes in order to had unlimited reloads. In 9.6, you can do it slightly quicker, but it only gives you one reload. What's better - infinite reloads for everyone in a couple minutes, or one reload for one LAT in one minute?

 

This can't be so hard for you to understand, dude. First of all, I don't need infinite reloads. I don't have unlimited magazine capacity. I don't have unlimited LAT capacity. And I usually only have to reload one player, and that's my LAT guy. So waiting around for minutes to get an unlimited ammo crate to resupply a single LAT kit is not any more beneficial than getting a single ammo crate that can only resupply a single LAT kit.

 

But, and please read and comprehend this now: I can just keep replacing the FOB over and over to get more than one resupply.

 

So actually, an instant LAT reload in 10 seconds beats the shit out of waiting around for minutes for unlimited resupply that I'll never need.

 

34 minutes ago, tatzhit said:

Yes, I get that now it's slightly quicker to "resupply on the move". But what kind of map is this relevant on? We're fighting over static objectives for chrissakes, are entire squads running circles out in the field or something, >400m from nearest combat area? 

 

I really wonder what servers you play on to have such a narrow knowledge of tactics and strategy. We have squads operating behind enemy lines, ambushing vehicles, disrupting supply lines, and digging up rear FOBs. Armor support squads constantly moving on the flanks, looking for enemy vehicles and providing fire support. Infantry squads probing the flanks of the enemy position, trying to find a way around to get them caught in a crossfire position, maybe taking out their FOB.

 

On Fool's Road right now on the Mumblerines server, we held FOB Popanov while the enemy blocked our cap on Ammo Depot. The front line basically extended between those two points. We then capped our rear flags, and the front line went from Popanov to South of Hill 123. As stated above, teams fight over kilometer long front lines. You attack an objective, you try to flank. The enemy responds to the flank, you go wider. You send a squad in a transport on a wide flank to deploy behind the objective, putting pressure on supply lines, possibly their spawn FOBs. You don't just ram two teams at each other over a 100m area around the objective.

 

In this very game, my squad moved from Hilltop through Hill123, up to the hills East of Popanov and took out the enemy FOB feeding their assault on Popanov. On the way we took out two vehicles, one of which we wouldn't have taken out if I hadn't dropped a quick ammo FOB on the way. Another squad did exactly the same, dropped a quick FOB for resupply.

 

You should widen your strategic and tactical horizons a bit.

 

@Qaiex You don't need free ammo bags for that. Drop a FOB, get supplies delivered, build what you need to build. There's no need to take "Forward Operating Bases" literally. You don't have to build a base. It's not effective in-game anyways. Expending manpower and resources on building an extensive static position is quite useless, and you won't ever see that kind of gameplay.

Edited by Tartantyco

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tatzhit   
1 hour ago, Tartantyco said:

You know maps are quite big, right? And that teams fight over kilometer long frontlines.

 

This can't be so hard for you to understand, dude. First of all, I don't need infinite reloads. I don't have unlimited magazine capacity. I don't have unlimited LAT capacity. And I usually only have to reload one player, and that's my LAT guy. So waiting around for minutes to get an unlimited ammo crate to resupply a single LAT kit is not any more beneficial than getting a single ammo crate that can only resupply a single LAT kit.

 

But, and please read and comprehend this now: I can just keep replacing the FOB over and over to get more than one resupply.

 

So actually, an instant LAT reload in 10 seconds beats the shit out of waiting around for minutes for unlimited resupply that I'll never need.

 

 

I really wonder what servers you play on to have such a narrow knowledge of tactics and strategy. We have squads operating behind enemy lines, ambushing vehicles, disrupting supply lines, and digging up rear FOBs. Armor support squads constantly moving on the flanks, looking for enemy vehicles and providing fire support. Infantry squads probing the flanks of the enemy position, trying to find a way around to get them caught in a crossfire position, maybe taking out their FOB.

 

On Fool's Road right now on the Mumblerines server, we held FOB Popanov while the enemy blocked our cap on Ammo Depot. The front line basically extended between those two points. We then capped our rear flags, and the front line went from Popanov to South of Hill 123. As stated above, teams fight over kilometer long front lines. You attack an objective, you try to flank. The enemy responds to the flank, you go wider. You send a squad in a transport on a wide flank to deploy behind the objective, putting pressure on supply lines, possibly their spawn FOBs. You don't just ram two teams at each other over a 100m area around the objective.

 

In this very game, my squad moved from Hilltop through Hill123, up to the hills East of Popanov and took out the enemy FOB feeding their assault on Popanov. On the way we took out two vehicles, one of which we wouldn't have taken out if I hadn't dropped a quick ammo FOB on the way. Another squad did exactly the same, dropped a quick FOB for resupply.

 

You should widen your strategic and tactical horizons a bit.

 

@Qaiex You don't need free ammo bags for that. Drop a FOB, get supplies delivered, build what you need to build. There's no need to take "Forward Operating Bases" literally. You don't have to build a base. It's not effective in-game anyways. Expending manpower and resources on building an extensive static position is quite useless, and you won't ever see that kind of gameplay.

 

1. A squad has 2 LATs + a HAT and scout for light factions + grenadier for heavy ones + everyone else needs bandages and ammo and nades and smokes.
Yeah, it now became marginally easier to reload a lone LAT. It also became a lot harder to reload everyone else.
Reloads in the backfield weren't abused before, and they won't be now.

2. Yes, lots of people like to wander around over "kilometer long frontlines" rather than play the objective. Sometimes it works. Usually it doesn't.
Different strokes for different folks, but I see no harm in giving those wanderers an occasional reload. Their team needs all the help it can get - after all, it's now short a squad in flag zones.

3. Properly placed defensive positions can be quite effective. I agree that more often than not, large FOBs are placed poorly though.

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All I've gathered from this discussion @tatzhit is that you're not very good at this game. I just came from a game where my 4-man squad took out five enemy vehicles (3 BTRs, 2 trucks) and tore down three enemy FOBs, of which some were mortar positions, some were repair positions. In total, my 4-man squad did about 150 tickets worth of damage, and we were only on an active objective for about five minutes(Which we capped). We did that with an open-top HMMWV and a single LAT(Who was resupplied on a drop FOB). Please talk to me about how taking out 3/10ths of the enemy's total ticket pool doesn't help the team.

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tatzhit   

What I gather from this is that you play servers where there are lots of incompetent people who drop largely useless FOBs and then fail to protect them, and manage to lose 3 BTRs to a single LAT and a Humvee. That, or your squad is far more skilled than the opposition. Probably both.

And even then, your skills are probably best applied by playing the objectives and leaving those largely useless "mortar FOBs" for the enemy to waste time there. If you really take 5 minutes to clear and cap a flag, you'd win a lot quicker than by running around the backfield hunting random incompetents.

Edited by tatzhit

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Stom   

Great update. New map is great and the new UI is very helpful (it also shows lean direction and bleeding, not just stance for you guys that hate it so much).

 

I do however agree that FOBs shouldn't start with any resources. The reasoning is pretty clear from the patch notes 'The Dshk emplacement is now 200 points (was 350). TIP: This will enable you to deploy it off of a fresh FOB', the intention is to allow irregular forces to use more hit and run tactics and let everyone be get defences up for their FOBs right off the bat but I think this is the wrong way to go about it.

 

Instead what I think should happen is that light transports like technicals and humvees should be able to drop around the same amount of supply as the current starting FOB points (100 ammo, 200 construction) so that these hit and run tactics can still be used, but FOBs wouldn't be abused like the current system allows.

 

This would really make the technical's speed and relative stealth a really attractive aspect of the vehicle and allow INS and MIL to set up quick and dirty ambush FOBs, and besides if you're doing an ambush then you're probably already using a vehicle as transport. This could also be extended to the heavier vehicles like BTRs and Strykers since their lack of stealth is an automatic downside if you're trying to set quick FOB.

 

Also, with the new engine indicator I'd love to see a supply indicator, would be a nice QOL improvement that would mean I can stop spamming F4 to check if my logi has been resupplied.

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Psyrus   
37 minutes ago, Stom said:

Also, with the new engine indicator I'd love to see a supply indicator

 

I agree with this as well. If the game's direction was to have a minimal hud that required as much "use your eyes" as possible, I wouldn't mind switching seats or getting out the vehicle to check supply levels, but since we have the stance indicators and the "repairing" symbol as well as the engine "life" indicator, having the supplies count loaded would be great to see... especially for example with the insurgents' logistics technical that can dump 2x 500 supplies, right?

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0AKSTER   

@tatzhit The thing is free resupply shouldn't be a thing, it make no sense  that you can place fob out of nowhere and  get free ammo/rpg/explosive

 

 

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nooomy   

my solution on the fob spamming: They should add a 10 min cooldown on fob placement for the squad leader. They should also add a 10 min waiting time before u can dig up the radio. This will force the squad to commit to the fob and not just spam it

Edited by nooomy

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3 hours ago, nooomy said:

my solution on the fob spamming: They should add a 10 min cooldown on fob placement for the squad leader. They should also add a 10 min waiting time before u can dig up the radio. This will force the squad to commit to the fob and not just spam it

 

There is no FOB spam issue. The only issue is that there's supplies on the FOB when you place it, which shouldn't be a thing. If you do arbitrary things like add a cooldown timer, you're just going to start interfering with things like dedicated Logistics squads that might set up three FOBs in 10 minutes.

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"New Spawn selection list next to the map, which lists all the possible spawns and allows players to easily identify where to spawn."

 

=> Never been a problem for me but very good idea for newcomers ; and reducing risks of bad choice when several spawn points at the same place. Love it.
 

"New Player Stance and Vehicle Engine indicator icons, that show what stance your character is adopting (standing, crouching or prone, as well as which way you are leaning), and if you are in a vehicle the indicator would also show whether or not your engine is on."

 

=> To increase immersion I'd personnaly prefer the stance (as infantry) not to be displayed on screen ; concerning engines, an indicator on the dashboard (rpm counter activated or anything else) would be more immersive, maybe in later releases ?

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Arcapse   

I'd prefer if the stance indicator was smaller, it feels quite large compared to the rest of the UI.

 

Other than that, it's a really nice patch. Good work devs!

Edited by Arcapse

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nooomy   
4 hours ago, Tartantyco said:

 

There is no FOB spam issue. The only issue is that there's supplies on the FOB when you place it, which shouldn't be a thing. If you do arbitrary things like add a cooldown timer, you're just going to start interfering with things like dedicated Logistics squads that might set up three FOBs in 10 minutes.

Okey but don't make it possible to dig it up within 15 min 

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11 hours ago, Stom said:

Great update. New map is great and the new UI is very helpful (it also shows lean direction and bleeding, not just stance for you guys that hate it so much).

 

I do however agree that FOBs shouldn't start with any resources. The reasoning is pretty clear from the patch notes 'The Dshk emplacement is now 200 points (was 350). TIP: This will enable you to deploy it off of a fresh FOB', the intention is to allow irregular forces to use more hit and run tactics and let everyone be get defences up for their FOBs right off the bat but I think this is the wrong way to go about it.

 

Instead what I think should happen is that light transports like technicals and humvees should be able to drop around the same amount of supply as the current starting FOB points (100 ammo, 200 construction) so that these hit and run tactics can still be used, but FOBs wouldn't be abused like the current system allows.

 

This would really make the technical's speed and relative stealth a really attractive aspect of the vehicle and allow INS and MIL to set up quick and dirty ambush FOBs, and besides if you're doing an ambush then you're probably already using a vehicle as transport. This could also be extended to the heavier vehicles like BTRs and Strykers since their lack of stealth is an automatic downside if you're trying to set quick FOB.

 

Also, with the new engine indicator I'd love to see a supply indicator, would be a nice QOL improvement that would mean I can stop spamming F4 to check if my logi has been resupplied.

You could have it as the transport truck to have this but not humvees Sam for transport logi this would be good for a fob if my detail where you can build sand bags and ammo the base as I details above

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gshAT   

as stated the instant or actually the infinite resupply has to change cause it leads to "absurd" gameplay ... dropping fob/ammo digging up, redo. i refuse to do this because its silly.

i never had a problem with automatic generated points.

at least you had to wait for resupply and everything.

i also dont think that backup fobs that "cookup" while time goes on where you could place spawn or vehicle repairstations later were harming gameplay too much. actually they made sure gameplay was still going on. but whatever.

its much more likely now to get steamrolled by a better team than it was before.

 

i think the ammocrate should also as stated just be slightly more expensive.

sandbag only fobs without supplies imo.

 

better think of available limited ammocrates at vehicles. all kind of vehicles. or a role with ammosupply.

/edit ... i think this could be good solution like or similiar in the quoted post above mine:

make stuff placeable in a small radius of the car where it is right now eg. 300 CP/AP in a vehicle ...

so you could place a nice outpost with an ammocrate and some sandbags ... maybe even a hmg in the middle of nowwhere without having the restriction of fob-placement. maybe even make it supplyable by other cars than the logitruck. why shouldnt a humvee who was back at base repairing take some useful stuff to its squad again.

every gameplay i can imagine right now on the getgo connected with this seems to make more sense than the mechanic we have right now.

even if you place a fob afterwards where you already createt a "hmg/crate" from a vehicle those assets would just get "swallowed" by the new fob. i think you wouldnt even have to code this cause right now if you place a fob on training range your fob swallows all the ammo crates around it.

 

 

and i havent played too much yet but im not sure if vehicle CP/AP shouldnt be seperated now. It was sometimes a mess before this patch. where only mortars and hmg (i think they did) cost ammo points and would interfere with a vehicle repair/reload.

It will be impossible to communicate to people to save up for the vehicle.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by gshAT

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LugNut   

FOBs should be divorced from supplies, they should just be teamwide spawn points that cost tickets if you lose them. As now, you should be limited to how close to each other you can place them. As now, force them to be supplied to build a HAB.

 

You should be able to build defenses anywhere you drop a supply crate, be that near a FOB as now or any strategic location you choose. Having them tied together often means people they are being used for one thing or the other, with compromises made. It annoys me to no end that sandbags = FOB nearby. 

 

It's obvious that FOB insta supply is a thing. I often play medic and always need a resupply, it'd be dead simple for the SL to drop a radio in a quiet room, we dig the box, I get my bandages and the LAT loads up and we move on. 

Edited by LugNut

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Smee   

Didn't see repair to armour using construction points in the chagelog. 

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gshAT   
35 minutes ago, LugNut said:

FOBs should be divorced from supplies, they should just be teamwide spawn points that cost tickets if you lose them. As now, you should be limited to how close to each other you can place them. As now, force them to be supplied to build a HAB.

 

You should be able to build defenses anywhere you drop a supply crate, be that near a FOB as now or any strategic location you choose. Having them tied together often means people they are being used for one thing or the other, with compromises made. It annoys me to no end that sandbags = FOB nearby. 

actually this^^ ... atleast now sandbags can be built anywhere ... big love for this

but still ... if even assets are not getting used because they give away position its contraproductive to have deployables tied to the fob!

 

28 minutes ago, Smee said:

Didn't see repair to armour using construction points in the chagelog. 

they used up both before ... AP for rearming and CP for repairing ... not really much but they did. when repairing it was consuming slightly more than the points would generate back then. u were srcewed if you didnt had atleast around 50 cp left for a repair... the ap were consumed in a bunch every some seconds. (and i think this wasnt changed in any way ...) but u will be alot more out of ammo than you were before ... its easy to tell a SL to keep some ammo left when he was operating mortars ... its impossible to take care of every single reload

 

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tatzhit   
14 hours ago, Stom said:

Great update. New map is great and the new UI is very helpful (it also shows lean direction and bleeding, not just stance for you guys that hate it so much).

 

I do however agree that FOBs shouldn't start with any resources. The reasoning is pretty clear from the patch notes 'The Dshk emplacement is now 200 points (was 350). TIP: This will enable you to deploy it off of a fresh FOB', the intention is to allow irregular forces to use more hit and run tactics and let everyone be get defences up for their FOBs right off the bat but I think this is the wrong way to go about it.

 

Instead what I think should happen is that light transports like technicals and humvees should be able to drop around the same amount of supply as the current starting FOB points (100 ammo, 200 construction) so that these hit and run tactics can still be used, but FOBs wouldn't be abused like the current system allows.

 

This would really make the technical's speed and relative stealth a really attractive aspect of the vehicle and allow INS and MIL to set up quick and dirty ambush FOBs, and besides if you're doing an ambush then you're probably already using a vehicle as transport. This could also be extended to the heavier vehicles like BTRs and Strykers since their lack of stealth is an automatic downside if you're trying to set quick FOB.

 

Also, with the new engine indicator I'd love to see a supply indicator, would be a nice QOL improvement that would mean I can stop spamming F4 to check if my logi has been resupplied.

 

^Nice idea with the militia trucks. Would also prevent a situation where team is largely helpless after losing logis.

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tatzhit   
13 hours ago, 0AKSTER said:

@tatzhit The thing is free resupply shouldn't be a thing, it make no sense  that you can place fob out of nowhere and  get free ammo/rpg/explosive

 

 

 

I'm just comparing things to 9.5.
Backfield FOBs with infinite supply weren't a problem then, and they won't be a problem in 9.6 when they can supply one LAT once.

 

The funny thing here is that I don't even use backfield FOBs, because I prefer playing the flags instead of wandering the backroads ambushing occasional vehicles. So resupply FOB spamming hardly ever comes up because every contested flag generally already has a permanent spawn FOB. 

HOWEVER, for the "creative" people that like wandering the backfield, I think giving them some resupply is not a bad idea.
After all, they should be able to do something beyond "ambush one vehicle and then be out of ammo for the rest of game"

Edited by tatzhit

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Arduras   
On 7/13/2017 at 4:09 PM, Tartantyco said:

 

No, you don't just get one LAT resupply. YOU GET AS MANY AS YOU WANT BECAUSE YOU CAN JUST KEEP PLACING AND REMOVING FOBS. I just played a round where squads were doing this constantly(Me included). Got a couple of vehicle kills that I wouldn't even have gotten in 9.5 because resupply is so easily accessible.

 

It does not hurt the enemy to cut off all of a team's logistics, blocking HAB construction, ammo resupply, and vehicle field repairs, while also destroying vehicles costing tickets. 

 

Again, IT ISN'T INCONVENIENT. IT IS EXTREMELY CONVENIENT. I can resupply my LAT on the move in under a minute. Don't have to worry about waiting around for minutes, leaving a FOB unattended, or anything. Just dump, build, and remove. 

 

This isn't even a discussion anymore. It's already happening in-game constantly. Even in contested areas. 

It's not infinite, you only get so many ammo points and I think FOBs start with 200 construction points and probably around the same in ammo (can't remember atm) but constantly digging up/creating FOBs is time consuming for a few resupplies. Resupplies take ammo points now, or at least they're supposed to according to patch notes. At any rate it's easily abused (since even though digging up the FOB takes time placing it is instant) and it's weird that they start with enough supplies to put down more than a couple sandbags.

 

I'm not against FOBs starting with some supply, it's implied that you have something to keep the radio there after all. (I mean, a guy can carry a a half tonne of sand now, so hey) but it should be limited to immediate palisade defense.

Edited by Arduras

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34 minutes ago, Arduras said:

(I mean, a guy can carry a a half tonne of sand now, so hey) but it should be limited to immediate palisade defense.

 

You believe it happens that way IRL? Or do you think the guy carries some handy little bags and gets the sand from somewhere else like......the ground maybe?

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Arduras   
22 minutes ago, Major Trouble said:

 

You believe it happens that way IRL? Or do you think the guy carries some handy little bags and gets the sand from somewhere else like......the ground maybe?

It was a joke, jeez. It's still a game after all was all I meant.

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2 minutes ago, Arduras said:

It was a joke, jeez. It's still a game after all was all I meant.

 

It's cool B|. Sometimes it hard to tell on the internetz how people are thinking without a face.

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