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Long Range Artillery at Main Base (Prevent Rushing and Crushing defeat)

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To the developers of squad,

I feel a valuable addition to the game would be to place Long range howitzers at the main base of each faction. My reason for this is that many times, in game, some squads are created whose only purpose is building a super FOB and using mortars which decreases the fighting capabilities of a team and gives the enemy a huge advantage to capturing points. By adding Long range artillery that reaches just short of the central capture point, it eliminates creating squads only for mortars (getting more soldiers back in the fight), saves time and the painful coordination it takes to build and call in support and prevents the enemy team from rushing and dominating the other team by slowing the pace of the game through suppression.

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cant do that as it would not be destructible.. and I think they already put in a no build zone around main base.... small maps you can always build mortars... with the advent of helicopters and eventually jets then rush tactics will take a bit of a pounding.

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Once we have squad lock next update it'll be better too. People will no longer be able to join SLs that have no intention of leading infantry. 

 

Just 3 guys in a mortar base leaves plenty of people for objectives. 

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8 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

So just to recap there won't be any kind of field artillery in Squad right?

Well there’s already deployable 81 mm mortars and the Insurgent faction has access to a rocket technical that can acts as an MRL. Other than that I don’t believe they’ve stated intentions on adding howitzers or long range artillery pieces.

 

On the note of deployable mortars perhaps the addition of an alternate heavier mortar (like a 120 mm )that could be deployed instead of the 81 mm that would feature a longer range but have less ammo capacity and require more supplies to rearm it to add some variety. 

 

Personally I wouldn’t mind seeing mobile mortar carriers along the lines of the M1129 added. 

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I'm not in favor of this suggestion. Not being able to destroy such equipment because it's inside of the enemy's Main is a turn off... I believe having a dedicated mortar squad of 3 people will yield better results as they can build a back-up FOB/HAB/Mortar position for the team to fall back to.

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In Project Reality is of map artillery support (and in  past also JDAM airstrike) once per 30 minutes of game and only commander could call it. 

It worked pretty good. I beliave that with Comomander role we will see some kind of this stuff. May be yes ma by not. But all of this was already talked and using search could prevent creating another topic about that. 

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I'd wager a beer that we'll see off map support of some kind, who can call it in is TBD.  They already played with A10 gun runs, so I would expect to see that in and maybe other limited air or arty assets. 

 

 

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On ‎31‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 7:30 PM, LugNut said:

I'd wager a beer that we'll see off map support of some kind, who can call it in is TBD.  They already played with A10 gun runs, so I would expect to see that in and maybe other limited air or arty assets. 

 

 

god lets hope it doesn't turn into the spam fest that is DOI ... I thought the A10 was player controlled though?

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48 minutes ago, embecmom said:

god lets hope it doesn't turn into the spam fest that is DOI ... I thought the A10 was player controlled though?

 

Nah, player-controlled fixed wing aircraft aren't a design goal currently. We will have player-controlled heli's though, since they don't fly over the map in two seconds.

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2 minutes ago, Stom said:

 

Nah, player-controlled fixed wing aircraft aren't a design goal currently. We will have player-controlled heli's though, since they don't fly over the map in two seconds.

5979e487191973c5cec8d579bf3149e5_origina

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2 hours ago, embecmom said:

god lets hope it doesn't turn into the spam fest that is DOI ... I thought the A10 was player controlled though?

Considering how the devs have handled cooldowns on other vehicles, and they're ex PR people, I'm sure any sort of off map support will be limited in some way. No one wants unlimited A10 gun runs. 

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9 hours ago, CptDirty said:

5979e487191973c5cec8d579bf3149e5_origina

 

Pilot role will be for helicopters. During the kickstarter the devs anticipated implementing fixed-wing aircraft but since then they've revised the idea because it doesn't fit what Squad is.

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21 hours ago, LugNut said:

Considering how the devs have handled cooldowns on other vehicles, and they're ex PR people, I'm sure any sort of off map support will be limited in some way. No one wants unlimited A10 gun runs. 

yea it would have to be, although I would hope that its limited to once or twice per game rather than pts based (which completely contradicts about 8 other posts I have about tickets and pts and vehicles and stuff!) anyway a long way off I guess so no need to get my knickers twisted right now... 

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or make it so it had to be supplied.

 

eg Use the A10. it needs to rearm, to do this a player needs to drive a logi from main to the "airfield" which could be far far away.

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As mentioned, in PR they did have the JDAM strike which worked pretty well. As for long range artillery, I don't really like the idea. I can tolerate mortars because there's some degree of player involvement in the success of a mortar team. Players first have to find a target, and constantly communicate with the teams to make sure the shots are accurate. Long range artillery would, in my opinion, do three things:

- If it was player controlled, take players away from the battle, at a detriment to the fun that's had in the actual infantry fighting.
- If it was a called in, commander ability, like the artillery in Battlefield 2, you're essentially giving teams the ability to screw over the enemy at a moments       notice without having to put in any real planning, effort or skill.
- Mortars would be basically obsolete.

That's just my opinion anyway :)

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Posted (edited)

Soo... the solution to idiots misusing mortars instead of doing something useful... would be to give them arty at main? Meh.

 

I see your reasoning, and it might mitigate the problem somewhat (like it used to be back before mortars, when 1-2 insurgents would simply sit and spam rocket truck from main), but really it's only a half-measure to give arty-lovers something to entertain themselves while hurting the team less. I'd say an overhaul of mechanics is in order, to make mortars more effective. Perhaps a far greater AoE with greater ammo cost for the mortars, so they would be actually useful for something other than shelling enemy HABs.

Edited by tatzhit

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Within the "realism" narrative that Squad strives for there would actually be a few howitzers back at main base protected by the security of the perimeter just like in real life. Certainly it wouldn't be that hard to implement such a thing into Squad to add further options to the gameplay. I couldn't see any harm in a artillery role at all.

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55 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Certainly it wouldn't be that hard to implement such a thing into Squad to add further options to the gameplay. I couldn't see any harm in a artillery role at all.

So when my team is doing well and moved up past the center cap and working to move on we have to put up with some dic sitting untouchable in his main base lobbing shell down on us. No thank you. It's like having the behemoth in BF1 because your team isn't doing so well but at least you can kill it.

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1 hour ago, Major Trouble said:

So when my team is doing well and moved up past the center cap and working to move on we have to put up with some dic sitting untouchable in his main base lobbing shell down on us. No thank you. It's like having the behemoth in BF1 because your team isn't doing so well but at least you can kill it.

Obviously like everything else there would be some type of balance like maybe the artillery would be in one of those temp bases like the American one on Al Basrah. You'd then have to put down a FOB and provide security for it etc.

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We're throwing around ideas here for a problem, I don't really believe exists anymore. I say the problem doesn't exist because this thread was originally posted in reaction to the rush meta that has been already dealt with through the capping mechanic. We already have mortars, rocket techies, grenadiers, 30mm/.50cals and tanks in the near future to softer an object. We may end up getting A10 warthog strikes in the future which, I am not keen on, will be a type of devastating attack you have no response to. Artillery will just be something similar to that.

 

Mortars I am fine with. They attack you. You go and hunt them down and destroy them. Fixed or, even worse, off map artillery where there is no counter is just a frustrating mechanic.

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If I understand the OP correctly, he NOT upset about the rush meta, quite the opposite. He is upset about this: "many times, in game, some squads are created whose only purpose is building a super FOB and using mortars which decreases the fighting capabilities of a team and gives the enemy a huge advantage to capturing points", which is still a common problem.


I don't understand how players haven't learned yet that mortars are useless with their tiny AoE (outside of a very narrow set of circumstances, pretty much only shelling HABs in the open), but I often see a team lose 30% of its fighting power to some "genius" mortar SL sitting next to main and nonstop shelling random grid squares.

 

The OPs solution to this problem is to park artillery at main, which would give those "special" artillery lovers something to use without hogging a logi and dedicating a whole squad to building a superfob. It's not perfect, but I see where he's coming from. Personally, I'd rather see an increase in mortar AoE, so mortar squads stop being such an obvious waste of time.

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6 minutes ago, tatzhit said:

If I understand the OP correctly, he NOT upset about the rush meta, quite the opposite. He is upset about this: "many times, in game, some squads are created whose only purpose is building a super FOB and using mortars which decreases the fighting capabilities of a team and gives the enemy a huge advantage to capturing points", which is still a common problem.


I don't understand how players haven't learned yet that mortars are useless with their tiny AoE (outside of a very narrow set of circumstances, pretty much only shelling HABs in the open), but I often see a team lose 30% of its fighting power to some "genius" mortar SL sitting next to main and nonstop shelling random grid squares.

 

The OPs solution to this problem is to park artillery at main, which would give those "special" artillery lovers something to use without hogging a logi and dedicating a whole squad to building a superfob. It's not perfect, but I see where he's coming from. Personally, I'd rather see an increase in mortar AoE, so mortar squads stop being such an obvious waste of time.

I've both seen and personally used mortars effectively. We got 50+ kills numerous times. On the other hand, I've seen an entire squad doing exactly what you're talking about for an entire match and ending up with literally two kills. And I've ended up wasting some time and effort with them too until I finally analyzed where and when they actually made sense.

 

Specifically they're basically worthless when the folks you're trying to rekt are in buildings or near walls etc. That said, our most successful mortar missions were on the Kohat Insurgency map playing as Insurgents because you've basically got enough time to get setup way high up on the hill and nobody can really get to you plus you've got the Americans out in the open with a good line of sight.

 

There are a few other maps like Mestia where we've been successful but overall it seems as though all the logistics trips really make for a boring match. Hence, we rarely do them.

 

 

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