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SpecialAgentJohnson

Mortar damage -Direct hits on buildings should cause 100% penetration

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Some people including mayself think mortars aren't deadly enough. I believe the reason for this is because every building seems to be built out of indestrucible material that is unable to collapse. I imagine quite often a mortar shell on a mud hut would have the roof come down with stones and shit killing the soldiers inside but this can never happen in this game because of current technical limitations as I understand it. So, I have another suggestion -Make mortar penetration on direct hits on buildings have 100% penetration instead of having them penetrate the material of the roof as seems to be the case right now, i.e. a hit to the roof of a small house with a person underneath would hurt equally bad as if there would have been no roof at all and the shell just exploded like 3 ft above your head. I think that would be much more realistic. Afterall, I believe I have heard that artillery stands for the majority of casualties in most wars and in this game everyone just go and hide inside their indestructible huts or whatever.

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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that sounds like a good idea to me, currently the mortars on Al basrah or Sumari are kinda useless because of the buildings

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I like the idea, although I assume implementing it would be kinda hard. Since you still have to take different wall/roof materials into account plus should explosion affect several levels for multiple floor structures?

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I am not so sure (though devs might disagree of course). I mean treat the buildings as completely invisible to explosive rounds, with the only exception of them being able to trigger the explosion. So, penetration is always through any level of the house, but fades away with distance as usual of course.

 

Material penetration could be for ordinary rounds (bullets, cannons etc) instead, while having heavy explosions not even employing that mechanism at all. Of course the concept could be fine-tuned but, it might maybe be a good start.

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Let the mortars deliver say 50% of what they would if you were in the open in terms of damage. If your in cover.

This way you move when under direct fire but don't die right way, as you were in cover.

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I would say it would simply come down to the material being impacted. Being hit while under thick metal would be 0% damage, the closely clumped mud buildings (which only a 30MM) can penetrate, would cause 40% damage. Being under brick/concrete would cause 70% damage with bleeding, and being under wood/sheet metal would cause 100% damage. This would also be scaled based on distance to the explosion.

Edited by Catindabox

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11 hours ago, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

Some people including mayself think mortars aren't deadly enough. I believe the reason for this is because every building seems to be built out of indestrucible material that is unable to collapse. I imagine quite often a mortar shell on a mud hut would have the roof come down with stones and shit killing the soldiers inside but this can never happen in this game because of current technical limitations as I understand it. So, I have another suggestion -Make mortar penetration on direct hits on buildings have 100% penetration instead of having them penetrate the material of the roof as seems to be the case right now, i.e. a hit to the roof of a small house with a person underneath would hurt equally bad as if there would have been no roof at all and the shell just exploded like 3 ft above your head. I think that would be much more realistic. Afterall, I believe I have heard that artillery stands for the majority of casualties in most wars and in this game everyone just go and hide inside their indestructible huts or whatever.

The Mortars that Squad simulates have very little penetration in real life so in that respect they are accurate however I think their blast radius should be increased.

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On 2017-06-21 at 11:57 PM, Zylfrax791 said:

The Mortars that Squad simulates have very little penetration in real life so in that respect they are accurate however I think their blast radius should be increased.

Ok I can actually buy that. So maybe we can hope for heavy 120mm mortars in the future then. They would definitely **** even concrete roofs up when coming down from high above. 

 

Still I think it is a good alternative mechanism in the case destruction of buildings is to difficult or taxing to implement. 

 

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@Zylfrax791  that's pretty much what I was going to say as well they are HE rounds and not that big you cant expect them to take down a building that's just not going to happen and reinforced concrete good luck with that. I'm on the fence about the blast radius though but I can say there are some times where it out right landed pretty close to me in and open area as I was running for cover and someone near me was killed and I didn't even get touched so I know what you are saying.

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20 hours ago, O'Conner said:

@Zylfrax791  that's pretty much what I was going to say as well they are HE rounds and not that big you cant expect them to take down a building that's just not going to happen and reinforced concrete good luck with that. I'm on the fence about the blast radius though but I can say there are some times where it out right landed pretty close to me in and open area as I was running for cover and someone near me was killed and I didn't even get touched so I know what you are saying.

Were you in a real war? Tell me more plz. 

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well there is a damage model for wall penetration for heavy rounds. I think they should apply this to roofs. Maybe have it penetrate the first layer but dissipate after that. so if your on the top floor or a single story hut you will take damage but, the more layers between you and the impact the safer you are. 

 

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On 6/21/2017 at 5:57 PM, Zylfrax791 said:

The Mortars that Squad simulates have very little penetration in real life so in that respect they are accurate however I think their blast radius should be increased.

 

^This. I mean, even an 82mm should penetrate one layer of shingles or something, but any sort of solid building - forget it. It's designed to detonate on impact and throw tons of fragments to the sides, not penetrate roofs.

That said, I'll reiterate that IRL a mortar round is supposed to shred anyone standing within ~100 ft of impact. Right now, mortars seem weaker than hand grenades and 40mm, which IRL have less than a tenth of the killing power.

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9 minutes ago, tatzhit said:

 

^This. I mean, even an 82mm should penetrate one layer of shingles or something, but any sort of solid building - forget it. It's designed to detonate on impact and throw tons of fragments to the sides, not penetrate roofs.

That said, I'll reiterate that IRL a mortar round is supposed to shred anyone standing within ~100 ft of impact. Right now, mortars seem weaker than hand grenades and 40mm, which IRL have less than a tenth of the killing power.

I would like the mortars to be buffed up just around 20% but no more. Yesterday I was shooting them at the Russian's in Togh Sarai with excellent results as I could see bodies repeatedly flying up 20+ feet in the air and I recall getting around 19 kills. One thing about it the mortars are a blast to walk them in on people one by one. A couple weeks ago I stumbled into another Kohat map and devastated the US on Radio Tower. Good fun, just need a little more lethality. 

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43 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

I would like the mortars to be buffed up just around 20% but no more. Yesterday I was shooting them at the Russian's in Togh Sarai with excellent results as I could see bodies repeatedly flying up 20+ feet in the air and I recall getting around 19 kills. One thing about it the mortars are a blast to walk them in on people one by one. A couple weeks ago I stumbled into another Kohat map and devastated the US on Radio Tower. Good fun, just need a little more lethality. 

 

Gunner, spotter, logi driver - 3 people with 19 kills between them on a good day, who are also not fighting for flags, is quite a low result actually.
I'd say even a greater buff would be optimal, as long as measures are taken to reduce the number of mortar tubes on map.

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yes I would have to agree with both above ^^^ Like I said before I had one land near me in an open field and it didn't even touch me and it hit well within 100m with nothing between me and the round and the person near me was killed and I walked away without a scratch.

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On 6/21/2017 at 11:57 PM, Zylfrax791 said:

The Mortars that Squad simulates have very little penetration in real life so in that respect they are accurate however I think their blast radius should be increased.

 

It doesn't really matter how much penetration a mortar has. If an 82mm high explosive round hits the roof of a wooden building then it's going to leave a mess inside.

 

Thick concrete, dense mud brick and other hard materials are good as they are. Softer buildings like brick and wood shouldn't protect their occupants fully from high explosive rounds. Even a 40mm grenade slamming into a wooden wall is gonna leave a person on the other side in a terrible state.

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I'm sure a lot have to do with performance. You start implementing structure damage & projectile penetration it's going to have a huge hit on server performance. I'm just speculating of course.

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They already map bullet penetration I don't think it would be to hard to work it in even if they don't map visual damage. You can shoot through a lot of the walls on the map with a Ma Deuce as it is now.

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What would you think about a single shot mortar with a delay of 5 seconds between the shot's but with a increased impact blast radius of 66,6% and also increased ammo cost from 30 to 50 per round ?

 

I'm unsure about the pen stuff for mortars but the impact of a single Mortar round is quite underwhelming even with the 3 round burst its quite often near useless.

 

 

Edited by Phoenixstorm
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"Splash Damage" should penetrate, depending on the material - concrete etc., not so much; lightweight materials, absolutely.

Damage transferred can be set up per material, just like everything else in the game that deals with per-material decisions (general penetration, squibs, sounds, etc.).

no need for physical destruction (until it's technically feasible at least) of structures.

 

 

 

 

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Don't like the idea this will just turn it to a constant bombardment fest.  Leave building penetration to larger ordanace. 

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