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R3dundantC

Bullets and You: A Quick Intro to Stop'n Powah

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Do to Hollywood and video games there is a lot of misconceptions regarding bullets and I just wanted to clear up a couple of points.

If you're at all interested in what happens to the human body in the real world by what happens when a bullet strikes human flesh, I highly recommend reading Gunshot Wounds: Practical Aspects of Firearms, Ballistics, and Forensic Techniques by Vincent Di Maio, M.D.

Seeing as this isn't a book you can just find at any Barnes and Noble I'm hosting it in .pdf at this link, http://puu.sh/j7Aw1/1362c6e08d.pdf, in case any of you would like to read it. Be aware that there are pictures of gunshot wounds and cadavers in this book in case any of you are the queasy type.

The bullets themselves, while having tremendous energy when first fired will lose energy the longer it travels. There's a lot of forces acting on a bullet when fired but the primary reason for the loss of energy is friction from the air. The amount of friction acting against the bullet will actually differ at different altitudes, and to a lesser extend humidity, because of air density. That is to say that the same bullet fired in the high desert at 5k ft elevation will carry more energy and a slightly different trajectory than one fired at sea level,

Lets take a quick look at a typical "sniper" round , a .308 caliber 168gr Hollow Point Boat Tail fired from sea level. When it first leaves the barrel it is traveling at 3200 fps and carries 4062 ft-lbs of energy. That's a lot of energy but packed into only 168 grains of mass it still isn't enough to knock you down or send you flying across the room as the movies would leave you to believe. For that to happen the shooter would also be knocked down just from the fact he fired the gun. Equal and opposite reaction and all that physics jazz. At distance however, friction starts to really take effect. You start to see the bullet bleed off velocity and energy.

(Referenced from one of my Hornady reloading manuals)

 

.308cal, 168gr HPBT
YARDS | VELOCITY (FPS) | ENERGY (FT-LBS)
100 | 2979 | 3310
200 | 2769 | 2860
300 | 2596 | 2461
400 | 2377 | 2108
500 | 2194 | 1795
600 | 2018 | 1519
700 | 1854 | 1283

800 | 1697 | 1075

900 | 1551 | 898

1K   | 1418 | 750

The main thing here is to look at the energy that bullet carries when it hits the target. At 600 yards that bullet is hitting with nearly the same force as a 55gr FMJ 5.56 fired from a M4 carbine at about 50 yards. In terms of pistol rounds that is hitting with only about double the force of a .45ACP fired from a 1911 or 3x to 4x the force of a 9mm from a MP5. Now, not trying to downplay the effects on the body, terminally speaking, but that isn't much. I think we can all agree that getting shot with a 3 round burst in the chest with a MP5 isn't going to send anyone flying across the room. You're still dead, but dead were you fell collasped from shock, not because of the bullet mythical knockdown power

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I dont get this topic, interesting, but what are the myths from the Video games and Hollywood, that you cant bend bullets or that they dont fly in a straight line or....? 

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The thing to take away from this is: Don't get shot. Ever. It's bad for you.

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I dont get this topic, interesting, but what are the myths from the Video games and Hollywood, that you cant bend bullets or that they dont fly in a straight line or....? 

 

That bullets down't have the effect on the human body many video games suggest they would, such as so-called "sniper" bullets being incredibly more powerful than normal bullets.

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So , you are talking about lethality. All bullets have lethality , but lethality is not what you are looking for when shooting someone , incapacitation is what you want. Why ? Well why don't you read about the 1986 FBI Miami shootout. To summarize , bad guy got lethaly shot by police officers , bad guy continued fighting for almost 2 minutes after being lethaly shot. So what you want instead is a bullet that has enough velocity and mass to cause severe hemmorhage and the temporary cavity to cause shock and incapacitate the bad guy , aka make him drop like a sack of bricks.

 

Bottom line kids , most bullets are impotent , 80% of people shot by handguns survive. So..... shot placement.

 

 

There isn't a round that has knock down power , even a 120 mm cannon round will not knock someone down , it will just go through them.

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Rattled on about this in a thread 6-mos ago. "How many shots to kill a player".

I went in hoping for a brutal damage model like Insurgency, but after doing some research, came to basically the same conclusion.

 

2 Things kill.

  • Severed Vitals due to Displacement (Brain, upper spine, heart). This is 100% shot placement.
  • Bleeding. This is what kills most people. And they take time to bleed out.

I'm sure Melbo could more appropriately elaborate for us, but I'm assuming he's just telling the people that matter, the Devs.

All this said, the developer's road-map for medical and damage modeling is just about all I had hoped for, and takes all of this in mind.

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I dont get this topic, interesting, but what are the myths from the Video games and Hollywood, that you cant bend bullets or that they dont fly in a straight line or....?

Sorry for not being clearer. The misconception that I'm trying to dispel is that bullets physically knock you to the ground. They physically can't, there is not enough mass despite the amount of energy the bullet is transferring into your body. The reason I brought it up is that a few users here thought they could.

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That bullets down't have the effect on the human body many video games suggest they would, such as so-called "sniper" bullets being incredibly more powerful than normal bullets.

Especially at range, where depending on the bullet and its velocity is no worse than getting shot with a handgun, which by statistics has a 80% survival rate given prompt and proper medical care.

When I get home tonight I'd do the math on .308 out to 1000 yards and put in a table for 7.62x39 and 5.56x45 as a comparison.

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Sorry for not being clearer. The misconception that I'm trying to dispel is that bullets physically knock you to the ground. They physically can't, there is not enough mass despite the amount of energy the bullet is transferring into your body. The reason I brought it up is that a few users here thought they could.

 

That is the case when bullets pass through you. When they hit your steel plate, all that KE has gotta go somewhere.

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That is the case when bullets pass through you. When they hit your steel plate, all that KE has gotta go somewhere.

Its dispersed into the plate, then into the soft armor and the body behind it. Still not enough energy and mass in that bullet to knock you down.

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Very interesting.

 

 

That works for 1 bullet. I suppose many more and they aren't all going to be landing on your armor plate anyways. Not that I was really into the knockdown idea to begin with, but this certainly clears it up.

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