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Just wondering if there is any intent to make the visuals that appear when the shadows setting is set to "medium" the minimum setting. Currently if you set your shadows to "low" it completely removes all forms of shadows and darkened lighting which is a horribly unfair advantage. I did not notice any framerate difference between using the two settings. I can't imagine most players would considering Squad is so CPU bound.

 

TLDR: Low shadows equals no shadows. Remove the setting and make the minimum setting for shadows "medium".

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i use shadows a lot to surprise enemies

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Servers can turn on "tournament mode" so you can´t connect if your view distance isn't set to high and shadows to medium.

 

EDT: You can also set them higher.

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, koschilein said:

Servers can turn on "tournament mode" so you can´t connect if your view distance isn't set to high and shadows to medium.

 

EDT: You can also set them higher.


Are we allowed to run "tournament mode" on officially licensed server?

Edited by Rainmaker

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3 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:


Are we allowed to run "tournament mode" on officially licensed server?

 

No, when you enable tournament mode, it will disable your server license.

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1 hour ago, koschilein said:

Servers can turn on "tournament mode" so you can´t connect if your view distance isn't set to high and shadows to medium.

 

EDT: You can also set them higher.

I'm aware. That doesn't answer my question or help the licensed servers that are ran since we cannot use that mode.

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1 hour ago, PolishKruk said:

I'm aware. That doesn't answer my question or help the licensed servers that are ran since we cannot use that mode.

Yeah, I hope that will change in the future with the beta/release version.

 

 

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On 22/05/2017 at 10:58 PM, PolishKruk said:

Currently if you set your shadows to "low" it completely removes all forms of shadows and darkened lighting which is a horribly unfair advantage. I did not notice any framerate difference between using the two settings. I can't imagine most players would considering Squad is so CPU bound.

Except for the fact that it isn't. Everyone can do it through the in-game menu. And it does affect FPS and input lag. Just use your brain: more processing power needed > less FPS > bigger input lag.

 

There are other 10000 ways which wise and smart players use to kill you. Don't justify you being killed 20 times a round by accusing other people turning their shadows off.

Here are just some of many ways using which you will get bigger advantage than turning your shadows off:

1. Overclocking your monitor.

2. Overclocking and tuning your mouse settings up.

3. Setting up your key layout, so you can press more buttons at the same time and access more needed in-game functions.

4. Setting up your sound system, so you can hear better.

5. Setting up your network card to get better hit registration.

 

In some situations it is better to play with shadows off and in some situations it is better to play with shadows on. It is your choice to turn on or turn off your shadows. And I like the fact that devs agree. And I would like it to stay that way. It is unfair to force people to play with some settings. If it will go the other way, next thing we know everyone have to play on 2k resolutions, just because some kid doesn't like people playing on 1080p 240 Hz monitors with smaller input lag than himself.

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8 hours ago, Skul said:

Except for the fact that it isn't. Everyone can do it through the in-game menu. And it does affect FPS and input lag. Just use your brain: more processing power needed > less FPS > bigger input lag.

 

There are other 10000 ways which wise and smart players use to kill you. Don't justify you being killed 20 times a round by accusing other people turning their shadows off.

Here are just some of many ways using which you will get bigger advantage than turning your shadows off:

1. Overclocking your monitor.

2. Overclocking and tuning your mouse settings up.

3. Setting up your key layout, so you can press more buttons at the same time and access more needed in-game functions.

4. Setting up your sound system, so you can hear better.

5. Setting up your network card to get better hit registration.

 

In some situations it is better to play with shadows off and in some situations it is better to play with shadows on. It is your choice to turn on or turn off your shadows. And I like the fact that devs agree. And I would like it to stay that way. It is unfair to force people to play with some settings. If it will go the other way, next thing we know everyone have to play on 2k resolutions, just because some kid doesn't like people playing on 1080p 240 Hz monitors with smaller input lag than himself.


Just because everyone can do it, doesn't mean it should be done. Shadow settings to Low on OP First Light and Fool's Road(Especially Fool's) makes seeing in the forest 100% clearer, which is a major visual advantage over users who are playing on high - epic settings since their PC's able them to do so. If a persons PC can handle the higher settings while maintaining decent FPS - They should be using high - epic settings. 90% of people aren't doing it for performance gains, they're doing it for the reason I'm showing below(Screenshots)

Multiplayer gaming is become about, who can milk the most cheese to gain the most advantages. Why run a $2500 gaming rig if you only intend to run lowest settings to cheese the way to victory?

(Shadows max)

 

ggLbzNM.jpg
(Shadows low)
eWbsZxf.jpg

 


 

 

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previous shadow settings were better imo  where you can choose the actual resolution of the shadows so even on epic it will still look good without eating as much fps as now.

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13 hours ago, Dubs said:

Just because everyone can do it, doesn't mean it should be done.

Yes, obviously. It's your choice if you do it or not. Don't force others to choose options you want, though.

 

13 hours ago, Dubs said:

Shadow settings to Low on OP First Light and Fool's Road(Especially Fool's) makes seeing in the forest 100% clearer, which is a major visual advantage over users who are playing on high - epic settings since their PC's able them to do so.

Yes, so? Nobody forces nobody to play on epic. It is your own choice.

 

 

13 hours ago, Dubs said:

If a persons PC can handle the higher settings while maintaining decent FPS - They should be using high - epic settings.

Here is my answer for you:

13 hours ago, Dubs said:

Just because everyone can do it, doesn't mean it should be done.

 

You're contradicting yourself in the same post. If a person's PC can handle higher settings while maintaining decent FPS, they shouldn't do anything, it doesn't mean anything. If a person wants to play on Epic, let it be. If a person wants to play on all-low, let it be. If something can be done, it doesn't mean it should be done.

 

13 hours ago, Dubs said:

90% of people aren't doing it for performance gains, they're doing it for the reason I'm showing below(Screenshots)

Show us your stats from your researches? Otherwise it is just words and speculation.

 

13 hours ago, Dubs said:

Multiplayer gaming is become about, who can milk the most cheese to gain the most advantages.

Nah, you're playing wrong games, then. Look at games like Starcraft 2, Battlefield 2, Overwatch, CSGO, Project CARS, Squad. They're all about skill.

Squad in particular isn't about tweaking your graphics to get an advantage but about:

1. Learning game mechanics.

2. Learning controls.

3. Setting up your controls properly.

4. Using all of the in-game functions(like a map or prone-stand smap) and inventory.

 

And a lot of other stuff.

 

13 hours ago, Dubs said:

Why run a $2500 gaming rig if you only intend to run lowest settings to cheese the way to victory?

Smoother, bigger image of better quality on your monitor with smaller motion to photon latencies than on average rig, for example.

If you want to play on 4k resolution on Epic, I don't have any problems with it. Just don't force everyone to play on your elitist settings.

 

 

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You are correct. Nobody is forcing people who have 1000 to 3000 dollar PC configs to play any game including Squad on maxed out beautiful settings.

 

But, on other hand, people like you force us with mid to high end machines to lower our settings to bare bones to stay on equal ground and be ''competitive'' or else we would always struggle. 

 

I understand the urge for the ''easy mode'' with graphical exploits and what not, to always be the rounds top killer on scoreboards. But some of us see beyond that. And we like our game maxed out, beautiful and that aspect of it gives enjoyment and immersion to us. And currently this can not be fully enjoyed knowing that some graphical settings give big advantage (even though with V9 things progressed a little as apparently its not possible to change ini files like before). ''Competitive'' nature of this type of game must allow for even ground in the final version. Even if that means forced/locked settings (in this case shadows).

 

And to the end I will not stop advocating for beautiful graphics as there is no point for us to play on 1990 graphics just so we can stay ''competitive'' in multiplayer sessions. Some games got this right, we are about to see what happens in our Squad in regards to that in the future.

 

Rain

 

 

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For release I am hoping that a sensible medium ground can be found on the settings sliders, so that a little adjustment can be made for all of us, that doesn't effect the game so much in advantage. Or simply a better tournament settings mode found.

 

I don't think we are far off this, it's just not the priority with the game, at this stage of development.

 

I found my personal settings, tournament settings and everything else off or low. With a high resolution, plus scaling the game looks great and runs well.

 

What others do is up to them, I have no issues with it. 
 

I do it to keep it simple, max FPS and for a slight advantage as I am competitive and not very good..............LOL. 

But I sleep well at night, PC gaming is very 'open' there is so much to do, not do, consider or ignore. Some have amazing systems full of input lag - others run old systems with minimal input lag. Some run ultrawide monitors, some run off a 15.6 laptop etc. 'Edges' in PC gaming is a thing, and to me a personal choice.

 

I never felt happy messing with the files, that to me is a step to far.

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10 hours ago, Skul said:

Yes, obviously. It's your choice if you do it or not. Don't force others to choose options you want, though.

 

Yes, so? Nobody forces nobody to play on epic. It is your own choice.

10 hours ago, Skul said:

If a person's PC can handle higher settings while maintaining decent FPS, they shouldn't do anything, it doesn't mean anything. If a person wants to play on Epic, let it be. If a person wants to play on all-low, let it be. If something can be done, it doesn't mean it should be done.

Yes, the point is. Make lower settings not give so much an advantage, So that it's not borderline cheating. No one should be able to see clear as day in the middle of a dark forest during a dark and cloudy day. Low settings should be halfway to what the medium shadows setting currently give. 

10 hours ago, Skul said:

Show us your stats from your researches? Otherwise it is just words and speculation.

Personal experience of 17+ years of gaming. You'd be surprised how much people use low render distance, shadows, foliage settings for an advantage. Some even go as far as ini editing to remove certain things for visual advantages(Which Squad has seen A LOT in the past, with people openly showing their edits)
 

10 hours ago, Skul said:

Nah, you're playing wrong games, then. Look at games like Starcraft 2, Battlefield 2, Overwatch, CSGO, Project CARS, Squad. They're all about skill.

Squad in particular isn't about tweaking your graphics to get an advantage but about:

1. Learning game mechanics.

2. Learning controls.

3. Setting up your controls properly.

4. Using all of the in-game functions(like a map or prone-stand smap) and inventory.

Played most of the games you've named, some of them competitively(CSGO at GE/SUP/LEM level). I'm not saying Squad isn't skill based...but if I see a guy boasting about having a high K/D on a Fools or OP match, and he says he runs low shadows...then I don't call that skill, more so rather abusing a graphic setting because it gives a clear visual advantage on those maps. There's no skill in being able to see someone, when he can't see you.
 

10 hours ago, Skul said:

Smoother, bigger image of better quality on your monitor with smaller motion to photon latencies than on average rig, for example.

If you want to play on 4k resolution on Epic, I don't have any problems with it. Just don't force everyone to play on your elitist settings

You took my question too literal. Was rhetorical.

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1 hour ago, Dubs said:

Yes, the point is. Make lower settings not give so much an advantage, So that it's not borderline cheating.

And it is not borderline cheating. There will always be tonns of proper settings which will beat all other settings. Perfect example would be Vsync. You don't see any people playing multiplayer games with Vsync on, do you? Same with shadows and a lot of other settings, such as ambient occlusion, bloom, blur and other facepalm technologies(which are abused in nowadays games) for kiddos who fap on graphics.

 

1 hour ago, Dubs said:

No one should be able to see clear as day in the middle of a dark forest during a dark and cloudy day.

That is not achievable currently. There are gamma and brightness settings on monitors...

 

1 hour ago, Dubs said:

Low settings should be halfway to what the medium shadows setting currently give.

Nah. Adequate solution would be to apply shading to textures before even loading. So even with shadows turned completely off, it will not make you see enemies better. And it will not affect FPS, since technically there are no shadows, just all textures are as dark as they need to be on the map.

 

 

1 hour ago, Dubs said:

Played most of the games you've named, some of them competitively(CSGO at GE/SUP/LEM level).

With all due respect, MM in CSGO isn't a competitive level. It is an FFA 5v5(and it doesn't matter how hard you try to get to global, still just FFA 5v5 against and with kids and cheaters with 2 months old accs). Same with PUGs on ESEA/Faceit/ESL/etc, just FFAs 5v5. Tournaments in CSGO, on the other hands, is a competitive level.

 

1 hour ago, Dubs said:

but if I see a guy boasting about having a high K/D on a Fools or OP match, and he says he runs low shadows...then I don't call that skill, more so rather abusing a graphic setting because it gives a clear visual advantage on those maps. There's no skill in being able to see someone, when he can't see you.

You just said it yourself that a lot of people play with shadows off. And that's probably true.

 

So when a guy boasting about having a high kdr on a Fools or OP match, and he says he runs low shadows, following your logic and speculations it means he played against a lot of other players, which also(just like our guy) run low shadows. But the difference is that other players didn't get high kdr, while this guy did.

 

So even if we follow your logic and speculation, good players are still good players, and it doesn't matter how you call it. You are contradicting yourself again, but this time in different posts.

 

1 hour ago, Dubs said:

more so rather abusing a graphic setting because it gives a clear visual advantage on those maps. There's no skill in being able to see someone, when he can't see you.

You're right, there is no skill in being able to see someone and kill him when he can't see you. But that is only true when you're ini tweaking and remove trees, grass and walls, or even just wallhacking.

 

But this is true only in this cases, when you can actually can see someone, when he can't possibly see you, because you removed objects from your game or it just renders models of other players through other textures.

 

In case when you remove shadows there is no way you will be able to see anyone without showing your own hitboxes to them, because all of the objects on the map are still there, and you can't see through objects. Shadows only change colors of objects, and in your post you're talking about turning shadows off as about wallhack, which is just false.

 

Even if you lock shadows on low as 50% of medium, it will still render shadows only at about ~20 meters away from a player and not any further. It will change almost nothing in terms of advantage on OPFL or any other maps. And guess what? Yes, vehicles. Vehicles can shoot up to a 800 meters away. And shadows in 800 meters radius will never happen, obviously. But just the fact of shadow technology present will eat FPS and increase motion to photon latency, which is why shadows are just bad for multiplayer games.

 

People will always abuse all settings they can. What should really be done, is OWI should fix exploits, so people can't just remove walls, trees and grass, but not just completely locking down everything they can, but as Valve did in CS series: people have access to tenths of thousands of different commands and settings, it's just Valve fixed pretty much all exploits there are.

 

But so far OWI and Epic can't even figure out how to make proper Anti-aliasing settings.

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10 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

But, on other hand, people like you force us with mid to high end machines to lower our settings to bare bones to stay on equal ground and be ''competitive'' or else we would always struggle.

kek. Except for the fact that nobody is forcing 'you' to lower your settings to bare bones? You can play on low, you can play on epic, it is your own choice. I don't have any problems with that, whichever option you take.

 

There are enough players with high-end machines who can prove it by playing on Epic and still top fragging(30+ kills) on publics almost every round, while playing against most of the people who are supposedly play with shadows turned off(as @Dubs said) but are not as skilled as these players with high end machines, who drop 30+ kills almost every round.

 

10 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

I understand the urge for the ''easy mode'' with graphical exploits and what not, to always be the rounds top killer on scoreboards.

Good for you.

 

 

10 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

But some of us see beyond that. And we like our game maxed out, beautiful and that aspect of it gives enjoyment and immersion to us.

Sure, play it as you like. I don't think anybody have problems with that.

 

10 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

And currently this can not be fully enjoyed knowing that some graphical settings give big advantage

insert kekface.jpg here.

If you like your game maxes out, that's fine, I don't have a problem with that. But when you want to force other people to play on your maxed out settings, that's a problem. I don't want to play with Vsync, bloom, blur, AA, AO, Shadows, MSAA, SMAA and tonns of other facepalm technologies, just because some guy from somewhere wants me to play with all of these technologies turned on.

 

And don't tell me you are not proposing to force bloom, blur and other facepalm technologies. Once you achieve shadows, there will be 10 other like you, which will want to force bloom and blur, just because they want to force everyone to play with bloom and blur.

 

There is another advantage: FPS. More settings you force to be turned on(like bloom, blur and shadows), the bigger advantage kiddos who wasted $3000 on their PCs will get. If you want to start forcing settings, you better force FPS at 30, too, then. So even if you have the best PC in the world, you will not have any advantages in terms of FPS with forced settings on, everyone will be equal in terms of FPS and in terms of settings. Retarded, right?

That's the whole point! Forcing settings is retarded! You want to lock your FPS? Do it yourself on your own machine. You want to 'lock' any other settings(bloom, blur, shadows, etc.)? Do it yourself on your own machine.

 

10 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

''Competitive'' nature of this type of game must allow for even ground in the final version. Even if that means forced/locked settings (in this case shadows).

And FPS too, then. Lock shadows at Epic and FPS at 30, so everyone is equal(kek). Don't forget to lock resolutions to 800x640, so people with triple monitor setups can't see 3 times more than you do. Oh, and mouse sensitivity...

 

How's your legue working out for you BTW?  sarcastic.gif

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58 minutes ago, Skul said:

 - Snip

We obviously aren't going to agree with one another. If I write another response to you - You're just going to disregard my side of things and fire back with abstract and unconventional debate.

We'll just leave it here I guess.

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Reading through this thread was a "chuckle-worthy" experience for me.

 

The general idea of the complaints of unfairness, actually stems from something that has been in every fps game dating back to the beginning of the genre...graphics scalability. It's a requirement, because not everyone has identical hardware in their rig.  Because of that, there's no such thing as "fair" in PC gaming graphics. This is nothing new.

 

If someone needs fairness, then I suggest gaming on consoles...that's as close to fair as you're going to get.

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1 minute ago, SSIXS said:

Quite right, which is why I stated "as close to fair as you're going to get"  :P

 

Very true, although I would argue that graphics scalability offers far less "advantage" to a player than a much more precise input method (kb/mouse vs controller). But that's getting a little off topic. 

 

At the end of the day, I don't think that anyone disagrees that the developers should make it so that there is as little exploitable difference between high and low settings (like baked shadows into the landscape like Skul suggested), but asking for scalability options that allow many people with mid/low rigs to play [with >= 30fps] to be removed is just selfish on the part of the more "well off" players, imo. 

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29 minutes ago, SSIXS said:

Reading through this thread was a "chuckle-worthy" experience for me.

 

The general idea of the complaints of unfairness, actually stems from something that has been in every fps game dating back to the beginning of the genre...graphics scalability. It's a requirement, because not everyone has identical hardware in their rig.  Because of that, there's no such thing as "fair" in PC gaming graphics. This is nothing new.

 

If someone needs fairness, then I suggest gaming on consoles...that's as close to fair as you're going to get.

Everyone is aware of the need of graphic scalability. What people are asking is changes to this
eWbsZxf.jpg
Lowest shadow option displaying nearly non existent shadows and shading. People have different hardware, yes - but if they're running a 2010 gaming potato, then maybe they need to upgrade to a 2016/2017 modern potato. It holds gaming back when devs have to hold back to cater to people living 5+ years in the past in computer technology. Too many side effects of graphic scalability on lower settings, being too low.

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9 minutes ago, Dubs said:

Everyone is aware of the need of graphic scalability. What people are asking is changes to this
eWbsZxf.jpg
Lowest shadow option displaying nearly non existent shadows and shading. People have different hardware, yes - but if they're running a 2010 gaming potato, then maybe they need to upgrade to a 2016/2017 modern potato. It holds gaming back when devs have to hold back to cater to people living 5+ years in the past in computer technology. Too many side effects of graphic scalability on lower settings, being too low.

 

The nearly non existent shadows and shading, is because  the way those "systems" are handled in SQUAD is very CPU intensive, which surely y'all already know. Couple that fact with the general lack of optimization in the game...because it's still in the alpha stages of development...and you end of with the scalability unfairness that you're talking about. IMO dealing with such things should not be a high priority right now, as there's so many other far more important things in this game that need to either be fixed or implemented. 

 

You can talk to the developers and modders about baking in the textures on maps like Skul suggested...which could be a viable solution to the problem and offer up the potential of better performance for everyone...even those  on 5+ yr old gaming rigs.

 

It's one of those things that people are either going to need to be really patient about, or exercise their own free will and lower their graphics settings or start running Tournament Mode servers.  

 

I just wouldn't expect it to change anytime soon...there's too much really broken stuff in this game still to fix, as well as new content to implement.

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21 minutes ago, SSIXS said:

You can talk to the developers and modders about baking in the textures on maps like Skul suggested...which could be a viable solution to the problem and offer up the potential of better performance for everyone...even those  on 5+ yr old gaming rigs.


I talked to IronTaxi a little about it (on discord unfortunately, so there's no way to link to the conversation :|) and he mentioned that it takes them something like 48 hours to bake the lighting for a single map, so they've gone just fully dynamic for now during the development process, since the maps are changed pretty much every release. I'm rather confident that they'll look into baking the lighting in where possible once they get closer to the final release. Hopefully the community can offer some expertise with cloud based swarm baking for them, if the devs aren't familiar with it by then. 

 

24 minutes ago, SSIXS said:

start running Tournament Mode servers

 

Yeah, I don't see any issue for people wanting that level playing field to stick to tournament mode servers. 

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